Let’s talk about the Chargers

[Best22]

SNF. Big game, good opponent. What are your thoughts gents?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19

I mean we have people out there still upset about our WR room

Well.... Rashee had become a legit #1 and Worthy is now routing people up every single week

And the way their skill sets complement each other is bordering on AJ Brown/Devonta Smith stuff

We are doing OK in the draft still

Worthy was a 'traits' pick.

Later in the first (and definitely throughout the 2nd day) I think if you see someone with a true best of breed trait, you take him. If you have a DE with freakish explosion but some warts, overlook the warts and take the explosion.

If you have a CB with premier athleticism but technique issues, you take him.

And if you have the fastest guy to ever run the 40, that's completely defensible, especially with the draft board looking like it did at that spot.

I don't think that was a situation where they drafted for need at the position. I think they saw a genuine game-altering trait and so they snapped it up.

That's a little different than taking FAU or even MEH. Both of those guys sure looked to me like situations where they targeted a specific position group. And I think they've done that a little too often in the 2nd round during the Veach era as well (Moore and Speaks being the obvious examples).

But hell, everyone has misses. I just worry about how this roster's going to hold up as our blue-chippers (Jones and Kelce) age out and we need some of these picks to be GREAT players rather than just pretty solid ones.

Gonna have to get a little lucky at some point going forward. Watson was lucky, but it was a throwaway pick turning into a very good player. What we need is a mid-round pick to be an excellent player at a position of value. Rice was on his way to being one but apart from him (and perhaps I'm missing someone) we really haven't had that in awhile.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Jaylen Watson. That’s why they didn’t draft him.

They’re the same type of player. Porter Jr is an outside corner only. He’s only played 25 snaps in the slot this season.

A major part of our defense being so good last year was Sneed and McDuffie being so damn versatile. Teams never knew what we were doing bc both of those guys along with Conner could play in so many different places.

Conner has obviously not been anywhere close to Sneed in coverage. I think losing Sneed has hurt him the most.

Posted this in the draft forum but a versatile cover CB2 has to be our biggest need after Tackle

Sure but even WITH Watson, having Porter to allow McDuffie to stay in the slot would've been massive.

And they couldn't have loved Williams all that much, they've never really seemed comfortable just giving him reps. So if you're looking at 'finishing' your defensive secondary, Porter really was a perfect fit there.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Does it have to be from a specific round or do we just need around five or more elite (top five-ish at their position) players at any given time?

To your point, Kelce is soon exiting that group and Jones not too far out either. But, I'd say signs point to McDuffie being there and Rice was well on his way. Who knows who else may come along and join Mahomes and Humphrey.

I think there's a shot Jaden Hicks is one of those guys but time will tell.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19

Does it have to be from a specific round or do we just need around five or more elite (top five-ish at their position) players at any given time?

To your point, Kelce is soon exiting that group and Jones not too far out either. But, I'd say signs point to McDuffie being there and Rice was well on his way. Who knows who else may come along and join Mahomes and Humphrey.

I think there's a shot Jaden Hicks is one of those guys but time will tell.

I mean I wouldn't say it HAS to be, no. But the odds say that you're gonna need a few lucky stabs in the early round to get to those 5 great players.

And man, I know Creed is a great C, but I just don't care. I really don't think he's a difference maker. I'd trade the best C in football for a firmly average OT or top 20 pass-rusher or WR every time.

I really don't think I'm gonna care for that Humphrey contract going forward. I just don't think the position matters enough. Hell, I think having Butker is more critical than having Creed.

I've just seen this offense work too well with Austin Reiter playing for us.

In 2 years I see 3 'Impact' players on the present roster, with a shot at a 4th in Worthy. Mahomes, McDuffie and Rice.

I just compare that to some teams on the rise and get a little skittish. You look at Detroit with St. Brown, LaPorta, Sewell, Gibbs, Hutchinson, Branch and maybe Arnold and think "damn, that foundation is REALLY good and will be for awhile..."

It's all relative. It just feels like we're slipping a bit in relation to some of the teams we're going to have to beat for a championship.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Jaylen Watson. That’s why they didn’t draft him.

They’re the same type of player. Porter Jr is an outside corner only. He’s only played 25 snaps in the slot this season.

A major part of our defense being so good last year was Sneed and McDuffie being so damn versatile. Teams never knew what we were doing bc both of those guys along with Conner could play in so many different places.

Conner has obviously not been anywhere close to Sneed in coverage. I think losing Sneed has hurt him the most.

Posted this in the draft forum but a versatile cover CB2 has to be our biggest need after Tackle

Alot easier to find slot CB's than legit outside guys.

Take BPA early in the draft, don't reach for need.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I mean I wouldn't say it HAS to be, no. But the odds say that you're gonna need a few lucky stabs in the early round to get to those 5 great players.

And man, I know Creed is a great C, but I just don't care. I really don't think he's a difference maker. I'd trade the best C in football for a firmly average OT or top 20 pass-rusher or WR every time.

I really don't think I'm gonna care for that Humphrey contract going forward. I just don't think the position matters enough. Hell, I think having Butker is more critical than having Creed.

I've just seen this offense work too well with Austin Reiter playing for us.

In 2 years I see 3 'Impact' players on the present roster, with a shot at a 4th in Worthy. Mahomes, McDuffie and Rice.

I just compare that to some teams on the rise and get a little skittish. You look at Detroit with St. Brown, LaPorta, Sewell, Gibbs, Hutchinson, Branch and maybe Arnold and think "damn, that foundation is REALLY good and will be for awhile..."

It's all relative. It just feels like we're slipping a bit in relation to some of the teams we're going to have to beat for a championship.

Bout to get back to my roots of "lets trade a first and pay an elite guy"

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I mean I wouldn't say it HAS to be, no. But the odds say that you're gonna need a few lucky stabs in the early round to get to those 5 great players.

And man, I know Creed is a great C, but I just don't care. I really don't think he's a difference maker. I'd trade the best C in football for a firmly average OT or top 20 pass-rusher or WR every time.

I really don't think I'm gonna care for that Humphrey contract going forward. I just don't think the position matters enough. Hell, I think having Butker is more critical than having Creed.

I've just seen this offense work too well with Austin Reiter playing for us.

In 2 years I see 3 'Impact' players on the present roster, with a shot at a 4th in Worthy. Mahomes, McDuffie and Rice.

I just compare that to some teams on the rise and get a little skittish. You look at Detroit with St. Brown, LaPorta, Sewell, Gibbs, Hutchinson, Branch and maybe Arnold and think "damn, that foundation is REALLY good and will be for awhile..."

It's all relative. It just feels like we're slipping a bit in relation to some of the teams we're going to have to beat for a championship.

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.

Mahomes is worth about five of those players alone in comparison to the Jared Goff's of the world who NEED that many impact guys to function at a high level.

When you have elite coaches, guys are gonna rise with the tide. It's why Harbaugh has no-names making game-winning interceptions all the sudden when previously the Chargers always lost games like that. When Andy goes... that's when we will see just how good or bad our roster is.

We also tend to think our players are a little better or worse than they really are. Which is fine. But there's probably a lot of non-Chiefs fans out there who think Bolton is a top five LBer, and more who don't even know who some of our good players are.

All in all, really important draft class coming up. Even if you are stuck picking 32 again, sure hope so, you have four picks between 32 and 96. All guys who should be real legit talents capable of hitting a high ceiling.

[O.city]

Mahomes hasn't been a "5 WAR" player for a couple years now.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Originally Posted by O.city

Bout to get back to my roots of "lets trade a first and pay an elite guy"

Or, just find the next great fit in FA who is really talented but hasn't been with a team like the Chiefs and sign that guy. Another Justin Reid even would be more than welcome.

And then keep your picks.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19

Or, just find the next great fit in FA who is really talented but hasn't been with a team like the Chiefs and sign that guy. Another Justin Reid even would be more than welcome.

And then keep your picks.

The legit high end guys don't hit FA very often.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Originally Posted by O.city

Mahomes hasn't been a "5 WAR" player for a couple years now.

Depends who you ask. Kurt Warner certainly thinks he has.

Been playing with bottom five OT and/or WR play since 2023 began. And all they do is win. Despite those being high value positions.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Originally Posted by O.city

The legit high end guys don't hit FA very often.

That's on your scouts. They found Mathieu who turned out a great fit. Denver got Zach Allen to his ceiling. Green Bay has turned McKinney into an All-Pro.

They're out there.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Sure but even WITH Watson, having Porter to allow McDuffie to stay in the slot would've been massive.

And they couldn't have loved Williams all that much, they've never really seemed comfortable just giving him reps. So if you're looking at 'finishing' your defensive secondary, Porter really was a perfect fit there.

I think the biggest weakness Brett Veach has is he falls into tunnel vision and takes players based on need instead of just taking the best players overall.

He did it with Speaks. He did it with Felix. He did it with Kingsley. He did it
With Skyy. He over drafted all of them based on specific needs we had.

He knew every one of those guys was going to be a project and still drafted them pretty damn high.

I’m more apt to forgive Veach with Kingsley bc he wasn’t drafted very high and he fits the mold the Chiefs had previously with Mahomes, Ford, Jones, Kelce, etc of “this guy has elite traits and a high ceiling potential but just needs to learn the game” mold. Don’t get me wrong here. Dorsey himself ****ed up and did this too with Tanoh Kpassagnon and KeiVarae Russell.

They need to stop this and go back to what worked. Need is obviously a factor here but get those high ceiling guys who have proven themselves enough. The 3rd rd is for guys like Skyy Moore and Breeland Speaks.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I mean I wouldn't say it HAS to be, no. But the odds say that you're gonna need a few lucky stabs in the early round to get to those 5 great players.

And man, I know Creed is a great C, but I just don't care. I really don't think he's a difference maker. I'd trade the best C in football for a firmly average OT or top 20 pass-rusher or WR every time.

I really don't think I'm gonna care for that Humphrey contract going forward. I just don't think the position matters enough. Hell, I think having Butker is more critical than having Creed.

I've just seen this offense work too well with Austin Reiter playing for us.

In 2 years I see 3 'Impact' players on the present roster, with a shot at a 4th in Worthy. Mahomes, McDuffie and Rice.

I just compare that to some teams on the rise and get a little skittish. You look at Detroit with St. Brown, LaPorta, Sewell, Gibbs, Hutchinson, Branch and maybe Arnold and think "damn, that foundation is REALLY good and will be for awhile..."

It's all relative. It just feels like we're slipping a bit in relation to some of the teams we're going to have to beat for a championship.

Detroit has studs from being terrible, you get a bunch of super high picks and you have them together.

The only one of those guys who was a find was St Brown.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Detroit has studs from being terrible, you get a bunch of super high picks and you have them together.

The only one of those guys who was a find was St Brown.

Sure.

But that's why I say we need to get a little lucky if we're gonna stay even with them.

The 'how' of it doesn't really matter - it is what it is. And if we want to stay on top, we're just gonna have to live with the spot we're in.

That said, St. Brown, LaPorta, Branch and realistically Arnold (wouldn't have been a difficult trade-up) were all gettable for us.

It's very similar to the OT position in that regard. We've had ample opportunity to get guys like Tom, Raimann, etc... and we just haven't done it.

It's hard to win championships in this league. And we're gonna need another really strong draft class in the next season or two if we want to keep doing it.