****The Official Save Our Chiefs Movement Thread****

[pr_capone]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Organization:

pr_capone: Paypal / FB / Media Contact
Marty: FB / Twitter / Media Contact
GoChiefs: (Cassel's Reckoning) - FB / Research / Youtube

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

This team is just plain awful. The only consistently good play on offense comes from Bowe and Charles. Daboll is, I'm sure a great person, but an awful offensive coordinator. While I understand that trying to lead this team is "like trying to drive a car with 4 flat tires"... it is incomprehensible to me how he can misuse the little talent that he does have. Romeo was the right man for the job regarding Belcher. He is still not the guy to coach this team into playoff contention and a Super Bowl.

*****. I hope the rumors of the Titans being interested are true. I hope you did get your walking papers on your recent trip to Dallas. I cannot wait for you to be gone from Kansas City. You took an ailing team and smothered it Cassel, ineffective FA, and bad picks in the draft. Statistically... you are the worst thing to ever happen to Kansas City Chiefs football. I will be thrilled when your termination is announced.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is still an unresolved issue with the donation from sports nutz and both parties are working to resolve it as quickly as possible. Because I cannot afford to pay for a 2 hour flight by myself... we are only planning on flying a single banner. Effectively, we only have $960ish in the bank until the matter is resolved.

If the funds come available in time for the banner to fly, we will fly a second banner as well.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Donations - Financials

Spoiler!

Expenditures:
10/7 Banner - $625.00
10/28 Banners - $1,250.00
11/16 Flyers - $375.55
11/16 Banner - $900.00
11/18 Banner - $575.00
11/25 Banner - $625.00
-------------------------
Total: $4,350.55

Current Paypal Balance: $1,984.05
Total Donations Received: $6,334.60

Donors:
pr_capone - $100
HemiEd - $25
Wumbology - $25
GoShox - $10
loochy - $25
gochiefs_va - $25
BossChief - $50
Dayze - $25
alnorth - $25
Old Dog - $25
Raiderhader - $25
Steron - $20
Pestilence - $25
Boise_Chief - $25
acasas4 - $20
A Salt Weapon - $40
Reerun_KC - $25
ChiTown - $50
hometeam - $10
Monty - $25
teedubya - $50
Rexx- $20
BRC - $100
Chief_For_Life58 - $20
Straight, No Chaser - $10
mlyonsd - $25
Raiderhater58 - $20
kcgizmo - $25
ghak99 - $20
Kyle DeLexus - $10
Swanman - $50
SomeRandomGirl - $15
scott free - $25
TJR1486 - $20
Frazod - $20
dmahurin - $10
Bwana - $25
bay_wolf (mod at reddit.com/r/kansascitychiefs) - $5
dtebbe - $50
Touchdown Kansas City !!! - $50
Deberg_1990 - $10
Fire Me Boy! - $20
bevischief - $25
SuperChief - $10
Chiefpote - $20
WV - $20
ptlyon - $25
Sean the Mayor - $25
jackkked - $25
Rockymntchief - $25
doomy3 - $50
ibleedredandyellow.com - $10
1adam1238 - $20
DaFace "Lord Captain Fuzzypants" - $25
COchief - $20.01
the Talking Can - $20
KCFalcon59 - $25
AZORChiefFan - $15
spanky52 - $25
ottawa_chiefs_fan - $20
RockChalk - $40
RaiderHater314 - $25
Marcellus - $25
Molitoth - $25
noa - $30
KCinNY - $20
chief103182 - $50
Inmem58 - $20
redhotgto - $20
Wyatt Earp - $20
headsnap - $25
NJChiefsFan - $10
Big Chief Homer - $10
JoeyChuckles - $22
PStokely - $1
farmerchief - $25
Josh & Katie in Salina (twitter) - $20
DMAC - $10
gblowfish - $10
Iowanian - $17.76
kaplin42 - $20.00
mugalug - $17.76
Scorp - $30
KCtotheSB - $20
Glorydayz - $20
prhom - $20
Nightfyre - $125
Bump - $4.20
kysirsoze - $25
CosmicPal - $20
Groves - $11
EdmontonChiefsFan - $100
Smed1065 - $20.12
petegz28 - $25
notorious - $20
'Nut - $25
K.C. Adrenalin - $25
Jason Whitlock - $600
Johnny Vegas - $15.34
d3c0y55 - $20.00
DenverDanChiefsFan - $10
ComfortablyNumb - $50
LadyChiefFan - $20
edenx25 - $4.55
luv - $10
Shag - $19.93
J. Albrecht - $10.00
DaKCMan AP - $27.17
J.Accurso - $50.00
Bearcat - $100
P.Palaksha - $50
Buehler445 - $25
David W. - $10.58
chiefs=good - $15
BourbonMan - $25
Hugh Janus - $1,000
Wazu - $25
D.Pihl - $25
ILChief - $20
ckruger - 25
rkane - $35
Brokenhearted Bruce - $250
cantill - $20
aanorth - $50
chief103182 - $50
KC Dan - $50
Bugeater - $25
speak24.1 - $50


Anonymous X6 (mult contributors either from outside CP or specifically req the anon tag or possibly pledges that I have missed.) - $135.00PAID

Please get in contact with me if you believe you should be on this list but aren't.

Archived Opening Posts

First Post - The Banner Is In The Air

Spoiler!

I got in contact with a guy at an airline banner towing co.

Talked to the guy there and he is a Chiefs fan as well. He said that the cost to fly the banner at the game for an hour is normally $725 but he would drop it down to $625 because he is also a fan and believes in what we are doing.

The flight would run for an hour but all banner towing is stopped around the stadium at 11AM. He would run from 10-11 and fly around the stadium before kick off.

If you all are serious about doing something like this... then lets ****ing do it. I will chip in the first $100 to the cause meaning we need to raise another $525. If there is an outpouring of donations to the cause, we can perhaps fly the banner after the game as well.

We would need to have the money paid to him by Wed. in order to get this done.

I was thinking the message should be...

WE DESERVE BETTER! FIRE ***** - BENCH Casse

A bunch of people have stated they would chip in for such a thing. If you are interested, send me a PM and post in this thread with your pledge. If we get the funds together to get this done, I will send you a PM to paypal the money and I will make the purchase.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The result of all this work:

Here is the NBC interview I did and pics of the banner being put together.











------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For those donating... once we hit the magic number, I'll send you a PM with paypal details. Also, any donations above the magic number will go towards future flights over Arrowhead. Cost of additional flights would be $560.

THANKS!

The Banner Is In The Air - 10/17

Spoiler!

CP POSTERS - READ THIS:
I am happy to heed your suggestions BUT. I flat refuse to put out any message that is not in the spirit of what we are trying to accomplish. A lot of the suggestions that we have here are ridiculously over the top and are not helpful in the least. If anything, they are counter productive. Remember that there are a lot of eyes on us right now watching what we are doing and what we are saying. It is all well and good to let CP be what it is but there is a time and a place for that... and that is every thread but this one.

We need to be taken seriously and acting like immature asshats isn't going to do a damn thing to help us accomplish that.
+
*** PAYPAL INFO ***

saveourchiefs@cox.net

Make sure that when you donate, you set it to personal > gift.

------------------------------------------------------------

Phase 2 -

Marty Mac Ver 2.0 is doing fb and twitter SOC

Wendler is running youtube SOC and, of course, .gif master supreme.

The staff of chiefsplanet.com and some others are serving as general advisors.

We thought about flying a banner over Tampa but in the end, feel like it wouldn't do enough good. We are definitely going to fly another banner over Arrowhead but it will be on 10/28 against the Raiders. There are are few suggestions being tossed around. We have some time and I'll be making a poll to get ideas from CP. In the mean time, I wanted to give you an idea of what we have done so far donations and spending wise.

The cost of the banner was obvious... we all knew that was going to happen. We are also, unless anyone has any strong feelings against it, are going to spend $50 on ads on FB to drive attention to saveourchiefs.com.\

We have plenty of time to come up with the slogan for the next banner. There is one thing that must absolutely be on the banner and that is the saveourchiefs.com address that AustinChief provided us with. I am looking for suggestions, I know there are already 50k spread through this thread but I cannot go digging around for then. The only banner suggestions that will be considered are ones that end in saveourchiefs.com. The banner cannot exceed 42 characters, spaces not included.

EXAMPLES:
PAY BOWE - DRAFT GENO - SAVEOURCHIEFS.COM

I have asked a small group of people to help sort through banner ideas since there will be eleventybillion ideas thown out. We are going to narrow it down to our top X favorite ideas, then let CP vote on it.
------------------------------------------------------------


To anyone reading this from outside of this board:

To Matt - I'm sorry man. I sincerely hope you are ok. I hated that a few people cheered when you were hurt. I believe that Winston vastly overstated the number of people involved but that doesn't change the fact that you DO work your ass off for this team and you did not deserve your injury nor for for anyone to take pleasure in brain trauma. That said, yesterday was more of the same. High throws leading to pics. Low throws forcing the receiver to go down for the ball when he had some open grass in front of him. When you were throwing and not handing the ball off anyhow. Even with all the hand offs you had a fumble to your name. Not to mention the 2 picks. One your fault, the other not so much.

To ***** - We said we wanted a QB change. What we got was a 10 man offense. We need someone to explain why the team is in the condition that it is in and make a commitment to the fan base. We NEED you to acknowledge that Cassel isn't going to lead this team to any championships that matter.

We know that Cassel was a "pro-bowler" in 2010. It was only because there were 2 injuries meaning that he wasn't even the first runner up. He was Ms. Congeniality. We know his TD to INT ratio that came on the back of the one of the weakest schedules we have ever seen.

That is in the past and he has not been able to replicate those results. He has done nothing these first 5 games to prove that anything is going to be different this season. In fact, he has regressed. You have to see this too.

The stands are empty. Craigslist is littered with ads for people selling their tickets at below face value. Think about this. People would rather lose money than come to the stadium, pay for parking, and $8.50 bottles of beer in the stadium. People have lost faith in this team. What do you intend to do about that? Say something real.

Hunt - We want to hear from you. We take no joy in bringing national attention to our plight. We feel disconnected and adrift. We have a GM that won't say anything, a HC punts on the opponent's 40 with 12 seconds left on 4th down in one game and played for a tie with 40 seconds left + a time out in another, lastly a QB that is being panned by the fans (not just us here at CP) as well as the media.

Another poster wrote something that makes a lot of sense.

Originally Posted by Hamas

Clark Hunt, for all his purported business acumen, needs a lesson on investment. It is obvious from the laissez-faire nature of the ownership and the infrequent trips to the stadium that Clark Hunt does not live and die with this team the way many other sports owners, both good and bad, have and do. Although it is understandable for some figures to have a more reserved public presence than others, the fans of the Kansas City Chiefs now perceive a disconnect, whether real or imagined (and I believe it to be real) more than at any point in my lifetime.

...

The most important things you can give are, in order, love, time, and money. Fans are the only ones who give the NFL all three. Imagine a season ticket holder. Assuming they attend only the regular season home games, they make the minimum investment: eight Sundays per year, at least seven hours each Sunday, and no less than 50 dollars a person. In all honesty, it often extends far over $100 per week, but we’ll be generous. That doesn’t take into account the other eight Sundays or the time spent following the team between games and between seasons. Furthermore, fans do not attend football games as an idle exercise. They care. They rejoice. And more often than not over the last forty years in Kansas City, they hurt.

In the end it comes down to a question. Are you a FAN of the Kansas City Chiefs? We want to know. If you are not... then you need to see this as a business decision. Come visit and see how empty the stadium is.

Clark... talk to us. Let us know you care.

email us at saveourchiefs@cox.net

To everyone else -

Quinn - Hope you get the start against Tampa. Loved what you did in relief duty. We wish you the best of luck.

The D was outstanding. I loved the Hali to Houston Alley-oop celebration. DJ acknowledged that you gave up the 1st down at the end of the game that let the Ravens kneel to win the game. Hands down the most life I have seen in the D this season. You were great and you acted like it. I'm sorry the offensive play calling did not complement your work.

ST - you lit it up. Love it.

JC. We love you man. I hope they don't break you by calling your name too many times.

Bowe. They need to pay you. If anything, just for all the changes you have had to deal with since you were brought in.

O-Line/TE blocking was outstanding. Lilja, thanks for stepping into the C role and doing really well. I heard you say that you shorted the ball... I've watched it and I don't think so. But I get it. Protecting your QB.

Daboll - The play calling. WTF? We said we wanted a QB...not for you to hand off every single play. Great work adjusting to Baltimore zoning in on the run in the second half.

-------------------------------------------------------------

We, the donators and supporters of this banner, have been accused of being fair weather fans. Far from it. We are passionate fans who live and die with this team on Sunday. If we were fair weather fans, we would have found something else to do a long time ago. Instead, we have gone hoarse by the second quarter and not been able to speak right the next day. We have painted our faces and worn costumes, even formed charitable organizations, and the Superfans. We have made life long friends and are as dedicated a Chiefs fan as anyone else. We haven't given up the team. We are tired of losing. We are tired of not being competitive. Hell, people are leaving games by halftime. Arrowhead is a shell of what it used to be.

We who have been loyal for so long deserve better than what we have received. 19 years and no playoff wins. I don't want to hear about AFCW titles either. They mean nothing when they are immediately followed by a beating by the Ravens where we lose 30-7. A game where our QB throws for 70 yards and 3 interceptions. We have had 1 appearance in the AFC championship game since 1970 (1993)... and we lost. In 1984, the AFC Champ trophy was named "The Lamar Hunt Trophy". How sad it it that we have never once held the trophy that bears our founders name?

Do you remember going to games in the late 90's and early 00's? Remember feeling the rumble of the crowd in your chest? High fiving and hugging complete strangers? Being unable to talk to the person next to you on defensive 3rd downs? I hope that one day soon we get back to that. I would love to hear the fans cheer from start to finish again. I want 120 decibels of madness because there is not a single person that believes we can possibly lose the game. Every game is a game that you KNOW we are going to win. This culture of loosing needs to change.

10/17 - 11/9

Spoiler!

*** PAYPAL INFO ***

saveourchiefs@cox.net

Make sure that when you donate, you set it to personal > gift.

don't forget to follow us on Twitter - @saveourchiefs
and on facebook - Save Our Chiefs (also www.saveourchiefs.com)

We need your help to get the word out though. Tell your friends and family, share it on your twitter of FB feed. Get the word out that the fans are organizing!

Organization:

pr_capone: Donations - Paypal / Physical Media / Media Contact
Marty: FB / Twitter / Media Contact
GoChiefs: (Cassel's Reckoning) - Youtube / Research / Film

------------------------------------------------------------
BANNERS

Weather permitting, we will be flying two planes over Arrowhead on 10/28 when the Chiefs play the Raiders.

The first banner will fly a message suggested by DRU:
"RETURN HOPE - FIRE ***** - SAVEOURCHIEFS.COM"


The other banner will fly a message to promote the blackout:
"BLACKOUT ARROWHEAD 11/18 - SAVEOURCHIEFS.COM"

-------------------------------------------------------------
FLYER

So, we are asking that fans attending the game begin to print out a .pdf file. It is intended to be double sided but do as you wish. These can and should be used for the remainder of the season or until ***** is fired.

The file can be found here:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8plc6cr6h...re%20*****.pdf

If you are willing, we ask that you print out a few extra copies and take them with you to the game. If you see anyone out in the parking lot that is enjoying the banners or echoing our sentiments, give them one of the extra print outs so they can join in the movement. Please be careful if you approach others sharing what we are attempting to accomplish. If you have ever tailgated at Arrowhead, you know that there is no lacking for beer or spirits and not everyone will be in full control of themselves.

11/9 - Blackout

Spoiler!

Marty on 610AM on 11/9


*** PAYPAL INFO ***

saveourchiefs@cox.net

Make sure that when you donate, you set it to personal > gift.

Organization:

pr_capone: Donations - Paypal / Physical Media / Media Contact
Marty: FB / Twitter / Media Contact
GoChiefs: (Cassel's Reckoning) - Youtube / Research / Film

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

We will be flying a banner on 11/16 "Black Friday" before the Blackout game all around KC. The pilot will fly the already made "RESTORE HOPE - FIRE ***** - SAVEOURCHIEFS.COM" banner over KC highways and densely populated residential areas during rush hour traffic. The thought behind this is that our banner will become water cooler talk at work and drive traffic to saveourchiefs.com right before the game for max exposure.

They will fly for 2 hours and will cost $900. We will also request that they buzz 610 & 810 to try and get some radio play as well.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The new Fire ***** flyer/sign:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j7yebuuqvp...re%20*****.pdf

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blackout - Raiders

Spoiler!

Personal photo taken with 2:51 left on the clock in the 1st quarter



There is a lot of black there. You all deserve a pat on the back. Your donations and support of this banner thing lead to this. CP is awesome.

*** PAYPAL INFO ***

saveourchiefs@cox.net

Make sure that when you donate, you set it to personal > gift.

Organization:

pr_capone: Paypal / FB / Media Contact
Marty: FB / Twitter / Media Contact
GoChiefs: (Cassel's Reckoning) - Youtube / Research / Film

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Blackout... Continues.

I never thought, not for a moment that I would see so much black at Arrowhead. I am sincerely touched. I knew that people would turn out to the blackout, the question was always how many. The number exceeded my expectations by a long shot. It was a beautiful sight and there was an overwhelming response from people that we spoke with at the stadium as well as online. So much so that it is going to continue through the end of the season.

Link to the FIRE ***** flyer w/updated stats:
http://goo.gl/2dsbM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

People outside are talking about you. Some have taken note that CP isn't always kind. Guilty. This is a forum that openly mocked a guy that got a really elaborate Chiefs tattoo on his chest. His one and only thread ever. So epic that is now resides in our Hall of Classics... yet he still posts here and talks football. Almost everyone here has taken some form of abuse for their stance at some point or another. People disagree with varied amounts of passion. There is a certain comfort level here and it is up to the new user to adjust to it... not the other way around.

Oh well.

Speaking of the forum... Mr. Dave Lane showed up to hand out flyers. He drove all the way to the game, didn't attend the game, was a flyer handing out machine and almost got arrested for his troubles. That is a true fan there. Show that man some green rep please.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

A quick update on financials... had a few donations come in which has left us with a paypal balance of $1271.63 meaning we can fly the next two games for sure. From there we have some more time to gather funds before the Colts game. For more details go to the Donations section. Sports Nutz is still totaling their numbers. I hope to update this shortly.

[Deberg_1990]

It would be nice if CBS mentions this banner during pregame and shows a few shots of the plane flying.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by ILChief

I think we need a new official banner thread. All unrelated posts should be removed

This......although that would be a pain in the ass for the mods to remove all of the other posts. People just need to keep the **** on the topic.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

This......although that would be a pain in the ass for the mods to remove all of the other posts. People just need to keep the **** on the topic.

Absolutely. Most people aren't going to read all 2000 someodd posts. And if they do, there is going to obviously be individuals on this site who are going to rant. I kind of started this by posting the Facebook thing. It was direct, and on point though. It devolved from there. Let's use this thread to talk about what's important.

Quarterback change immediately. Head coaching and regime change very, very, soon.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts

Absolutely. Most people aren't going to read all 2000 someodd posts. And if they do, there is going to obviously be individuals on this site who are going to rant. I kind of started this by posting the Facebook thing. It was direct, and on point though. It devolved from there. Let's use this thread to talk about what's important.

Quarterback change immediately. Head coaching and regime change very, very, soon.

Peyton Manning.

[FAX]

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts

Absolutely. Most people aren't going to read all 2000 someodd posts. And if they do, there is going to obviously be individuals on this site who are going to rant. I kind of started this by posting the Facebook thing. It was direct, and on point though. It devolved from there. Let's use this thread to talk about what's important.

Quarterback change immediately. Head coaching and regime change very, very, soon.

And blackberry cobbler. Quarterback change immediately, HC and regime change very soon, and blackberry cobbler.

Nothing else.

FAX

[Fire Me Boy!]

Originally Posted by FAX

And blackberry cobbler. Quarterback change immediately, HC and regime change very soon, and blackberry cobbler.

Nothing else.

FAX

And majuscules.

Quarterback change immediately, HC and regime change very soon, blackberry cobbler, and majuscules.

Nothing else.

[FlaChief58]

And this cup

majuscules, QB change immediately, HC and regime change very soon, blackberry cobbler and this cup.

Nothing else.

[FlaChief58]

[ghak99]

Chief Fans Put Anger To Action – Plan To Fly “Fire Pioli Bench Cassel” Banner Over Arrowhead Stadium Sunday


Anger over Matt Cassel has reached a new level, it also includes Scott Pioli.

Scooped by Arrowhead Pride Chief fans from chiefsplanet.com have pooled their money to actually create a banner that will fly over Arrowhead Stadium this Sunday against the Baltimore Ravens.

If you thought booing Matt Cassel at the major league All-Star game was bad this takes the cake. In all my years of being a fan I’ve never seen this type of fan reaction. What makes this different than booing Matt Cassel at baseball’s All-Star break was Cassel hadn’t played yet. It was before training camp had even started.

Now five games into the regular-season fans have seen enough. On a recent ESPN poll 71 percent of voters voted that Matt Cassel should be benched. I’d call that the majority.

Pioli has chose to attach himself to Cassel. Pioli has stuck with him, said nice things about him and has believed in him. That’s all good but when the guy you’re backing doesn’t do anything to back you usually you go down with the ship.

Pioli might have real problems with this. I haven’t seen fans this angry in a long time if ever.

Whether fans agree or disagree with this move it looks like it’s going to happen. A banner will fly over Arrowhead Sunday proclaiming Pioli a dud and for Cassel to leave town.

With the Wall Street Journal releasing a story yesterday about the Kansas City metro area having the longest active postseason non-win drought with both a MLB and NFL team the heat is on.

On both the Kansas City Chiefs and the Kansas City Royals.
-Chief Concerns

http://chiefconcerns.com/?p=1434

[bevischief]

Originally Posted by Marty Mac Ver 2.0

Jamaal Charles is now following us on Twitter

[Fire Me Boy!]

Here's the WSJ story: http://on.wsj.com/PbhIya

[Iowanian]

Someone might remind DEBBAH DOWNAH##!! that this same horde of barbarians started and contributed to 37forever, raised money for swimming lessons, have supported numerous other charities for over a decade as a community. She'll need a lot of friends working for a long time to achieve with her charity what this collective has accomplished.

DEBBAH!!!!###

It's not that the group of supporters for this hate the Chiefs or the players. The fact of the matter is, the opposite. We love the Chiefs. For decades most of us have breathed Chiefs. The other fact is, we're the ones who will be here long after newspaper writers who call us Classless and deranged will be gone, we'll be here when our favorite players
bail for money or winning teams. I've been on this website as an active member talking about the Chiefs for 12 years....12. It was a DECADE before this website was started 12 years ago....that the Chiefs have won a playoff game. 2-14 doesn't do it. 4-12 isn't enjoyable. 7-9 is a like herpes.

no more.

Where is Tony Gonzalez?

You think Bowe is going to sign here next year with the quarterback who wasn't good enough to play in college throwing the wobble launchers over his head? Hell no he won't.

Our loyalty is FAR superior to those of most of the players whom we have watched not win a playoff game for 2 decades.

If I had joined the military the day of the last Chiefs playoff win.....I'd be near retirement with a pension.

We have supported, cheered, tolerated and suffered with this product for a long, long time. Keep breathing in that perm chemical or whatever it is that melts your brain cells.

DEBBAH is easy to find...She'll be the one who can't tell you 10 facts about the Chiefs and thinks Matt Cassel has the best Baseball Racket in football....and stands and cheers when the OFFENSE IS ON THE FIELD DEBBAH!!!!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DEBBAH!!!!!!!!!




I'm donating $17.76 because this is a revolution against shitplay taxation without proper fan representation.

[In58men]

GET SOOOOME!!!!!!

[crazycoffey]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

This......although that would be a pain in the ass for the mods to remove all of the other posts. People just need to keep the **** on the topic.

they are our public servants, they took on the job knowing there would be days like this, seperate the trash mod boys! oh, and payton manning and j gruden please

[ILChief]

Or how about an official Deb/true fan bashing thread?