2014-2015 NBA regular season thread.

[Al Bundy]

I will update this when the schedule is announced in a couple of weeks, but I will open with the new uniforms for the Charlotte Hornets below.

Introducing the brand new Charlotte #HornetsUnis! http://t.co/MgHy2DcOTX pic.twitter.com/w59MlUvRgd

— Charlotte Hornets (@hornets) June 19, 2014

[mcaj22]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

If you're talking about getting blue chip trade bait, sure. But replacing Love with Lee and Barnes is going to make your team worse on an already bad team in an increasingly competitive West. If I have a choice between taking David Lee to that enormous contract or being given a bunch of young first round prospects, I'd go with prospects every single time. You can take that $10M in cap savings next year and invest in someone who can actually make your team competitive again.

prospects have value in sports like MLB and the NFL but it's literally a useless concept in the NBA. You aren't trading for a farm system in the NBA and you have to put fans in the seats to make money, and trading for prospects that will get blown out by 20 points a night in a market like Minnesota doesn't work. It may work in the MLB or in the NFL where the seats fill themselves no matter what. But in the NBA you almost have to try and field a competitive team.

Minnesota isn't the Knicks or the Lakers or a market where cap space matters, they're not getting a superstar to come there, ever, it's the sad truth. No different than a market like Utah or Washington or Milwaukee. They have to hope to either land a loyal guy like a Tim Duncan or Dirk to spend their career there, which is rare, or just overpay for good players. It doesn't matter what Minnesota "saves" because what are they saving for? 2016? and what player in 2016 is going to go there? Nobody. So they might as well spend, and spend to field an okay team.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by mcaj22

prospects have value in sports like MLB and the NFL but it's literally a useless concept in the NBA. You aren't trading for a farm system in the NBA and you have to put fans in the seats to make money, and trading for prospects that will get blown out by 20 points a night in a market like Minnesota doesn't work. It may work in the MLB or in the NFL where the seats fill themselves no matter what. But in the NBA you almost have to try and field a competitive team.

Minnesota isn't the Knicks or the Lakers or a market where cap space matters, they're not getting a superstar to come there, ever, it's the sad truth. No different than a market like Utah or Washington or Milwaukee. They have to hope to either land a loyal guy like a Tim Duncan or Dirk to spend their career there, which is rare, or just overpay for good players. It doesn't matter what Minnesota "saves" because what are they saving for? 2016? and what player in 2016 is going to go there? Nobody. So they might as well spend, and spend to field an okay team.

In this case we were comparing a 31 year old David Lee who is getting paid $15M to a 22 year old Dion Waiters who is making $5.5M. We're not exactly talking about an unproven prospect here. Waiters has been a good pro, he's 9 years younger, and $10M cheaper. And in Lee, we're talking about a good player but we're not talking about an elite player.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by RustShack

Really? Because all you pussies were crying a few days ago when I said Wiggins wouldn't get traded. Glad to know you're getting smarter now.

I only ever said that Bennett and Waiters were piles of flaming dog shit, and it's a huge insult to even start a negotiation for Love with them. If Wiggins wasn't going to be included, I said the Cavs would need to involve a 3rd team.

You're the one who acts like the conversation was only ever about whether or not Wiggins was up for grabs.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by SNR

I only ever said that Bennett and Waiters were piles of flaming dog shit, and it's a huge insult to even start a negotiation for Love with them. If Wiggins wasn't going to be included, I said the Cavs would need to involve a 3rd team.

You're the one who acts like the conversation was only ever about whether or not Wiggins was up for grabs.

It's still better than what Golden State is offering. And Waiters isn't a turd. He's a really good young prospect, but I can understand why he's not worthy of Love type compensation even when paired with Bennett and a first round pick. The only reason I see that pick making sense is leverage.

[mcaj22]

come on you can't call Harrison Barnes meh and then try and polish turds like Waiters and Bennett

at least Harrison Barnes has proven he can play 30 minutes a night without losing his breath like out of shape Bennett. You don't know what you're getting with him. At least you know you are getting a consistent meh with Barnes. You are trying to hype and polish the potential of Anthony Bennett, which is no different than polishing the hype of a Javale McGee or Jan Vesely or Anthony Randolph. Look at all the potential! Yea but he could still suck shit and never reach it.

I remember when Swaggy P had a lot of potential and value too and now he's carrying a Lakers team that is out of options.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by mcaj22

come on you can't call Harrison Barnes meh and then try and polish turds like Waiters and Bennett

at least Harrison Barnes has proven he can play 30 minutes a night without losing his breathe like out of shape Bennett. You don't know what you're getting with him. At least you know you are getting a consistent meh with Barnes. You are trying to hype and polish the potential of Anthony Bennett, which is no different than polishing the hype of a Javale McGee or Jan Vesely or Anthony Randolph. Look at all the potential! Yea but he could still suck shit and never reach it.

I remember when Swaggy P had a lot of potential and value too and now he's carrying a Lakers team that is out of options.

When did I hype and polish Bennett's potential? I am saying that with Barnes, you have a career meh player. In Bennett, you at least don't know what you have. Also, while we don't know how good Bennett will be due to summer games, it's hard to question his conditioning last year was probably a fluke.

Waiters isn't a turd. He's a good player. I'm not making him to be Dewayne Wade. But he's a Guard who in a starting role could and should get you 20 PPG.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

It's still better than what Golden State is offering. And Waiters isn't a turd. He's a really good young prospect, but I can understand why he's not worthy of Love type compensation even when paired with Bennett and a first round pick. The only reason I see that pick making sense is leverage.

Here's what I see:

Because Love is a crybaby bitch, his trade value has ALREADY been flattened into pittance for the Wolves. The Wolves are now down to one of two pieces that they'd like to have happen. Before this, they were trying to make both happen, and now they'll be lucky to get one:

1. Get Klay Thompson/Andrew Wiggins/some player they actually covet
2. Get somebody to take the Kevin Martin contract off their hands

Cleveland after making room for a new Love deal isn't exactly going to have money to waste, so I don't think they can take care of the Kevin Martin deal. Golden State is in the same position, though maybe a little bit better.

What people like RustShack are expecting is that Minnesota just take it up the ass and be stuck with no extra cap maneuverability, shitty players, and a draft pick in exchange for Kevin Love. Raped trade value aside, right now the Wolves are getting NOTHING that they want out of these trade offers. And in that case, they should just double down and hope a desperate team steps forward during the season before the deadline. It's not like they're exactly going to miss out on much if Cleveland or Golden State just won't ****ing budge at all.

[RustShack]

Bennett and Waiters are going to break out this year. With teams focusing on James and Irving it will be easy for them to break loose. They will care now that they have coaches they can buy into. The Cavs are a lot like the Chiefs were, loaded with talent just in a bad atmosphere. Adding James changes the tone a lot more too. I've never seen Irving and Waiters so happy.

[mcaj22]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

When did I hype and polish Bennett's potential? I am saying that with Barnes, you have a career meh player. In Bennett, you at least don't know what you have. Also, while we don't know how good Bennett will be due to summer games, it's hard to question his conditioning last year was probably a fluke.

Waiters isn't a turd. He's a good player. I'm not making him to be Dewayne Wade. But he's a Guard who in a starting role could and should get you 20 PPG.

so Dion Waiters can be your Ricky Davis/Evan Turner syndrome, shoot 39 percent from the field and score 20 a game on a bad team and make it look like he's good. So, Kevin Martin again, the throw in Minnesota is trying to get rid of.

It makes no sense for Minnesota to repeat that cycle. This is KG all overagain. Shitty trade offers with a chance they will be left with nothing.

[KevB]

Originally Posted by mcaj22

come on you can't call Harrison Barnes meh and then try and polish turds like Waiters and Bennett

at least Harrison Barnes has proven he can play 30 minutes a night without losing his breath like out of shape Bennett. You don't know what you're getting with him. At least you know you are getting a consistent meh with Barnes. You are trying to hype and polish the potential of Anthony Bennett, which is no different than polishing the hype of a Javale McGee or Jan Vesely or Anthony Randolph. Look at all the potential! Yea but he could still suck shit and never reach it.

I remember when Swaggy P had a lot of potential and value too and now he's carrying a Lakers team that is out of options.

I don't disagree with most of this, but Barnes sucked shit for the vast majority of last season. He looks like he should be a great player, but he's really only shown glimpses.

[RustShack]

Originally Posted by mcaj22

so Dion Waiters can be your Ricky Davis/Evan Turner syndrome, shoot 39 percent from the field and score 20 a game on a bad team and make it look like he's good. So, Kevin Martin again, the throw in Minnesota is trying to get rid of.

It makes no sense for Minnesota to repeat that cycle. This is KG all overagain. Shitty trade offers with a chance they will be left with nothing.

Teams have tried trading for Waiters. I'll trust GM's over you. They know he's young and talented Cleveland's players have just been misused and somewhat disgruntled.

[KevB]

Originally Posted by RustShack

Bennett and Waiters are going to break out this year. With teams focusing on James and Irving it will be easy for them to break loose. They will care now that they have coaches they can buy into. The Cavs are a lot like the Chiefs were, loaded with talent just in a bad atmosphere. Adding James changes the tone a lot more too. I've never seen Irving and Waiters so happy.

You keep blaming the coaching for Waiters and Bennett. That may be 5% of Waiters issue and 0% of Bennett's issue. "They will care with better coaching"? C'mon, you can't actually believe that's a material factor? They should care because they're getting paid, and they would like to be paid more in the future.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

It's still better than what Golden State is offering. And Waiters isn't a turd. He's a really good young prospect, but I can understand why he's not worthy of Love type compensation even when paired with Bennett and a first round pick. The only reason I see that pick making sense is leverage.

Flip already said he doesn't want to go the draft pick route that the team took when they traded Garnett to Boston. Personally, I think that's stupid to totally discount the draft picks just because the team was run by that enormous reerun David Kahn and picked Ricky Rubio and Jonny Flynn over Steph Curry.

I really like the Timberwolves drafts the past two seasons, and I think Flip could make good use of a truckload of draft picks and a player or two in exchange for Love and something else.

At least there's hope in that type of plan. Waiters and Bennett = no hope at all. That's not something I'm interested in one bit.

[mcaj22]

I cannot believe how much hype Waiters and Bennett get on this forum lol

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by SNR

Here's what I see:

Because Love is a crybaby bitch, his trade value has ALREADY been flattened into pittance for the Wolves. The Wolves are now down to one of two pieces that they'd like to have happen. Before this, they were trying to make both happen, and now they'll be lucky to get one:

1. Get Klay Thompson/Andrew Wiggins/some player they actually covet
2. Get somebody to take the Kevin Martin contract off their hands

Cleveland after making room for a new Love deal isn't exactly going to have money to waste, so I don't think they can take care of the Kevin Martin deal. Golden State is in the same position, though maybe a little bit better.

What people like RustShack are expecting is that Minnesota just take it up the ass and be stuck with no extra cap maneuverability, shitty players, and a draft pick in exchange for Kevin Love. Raped trade value aside, right now the Wolves are getting NOTHING that they want out of these trade offers. And in that case, they should just double down and hope a desperate team steps forward during the season before the deadline. It's not like they're exactly going to miss out on much if Cleveland or Golden State just won't ****ing budge at all.

That is all fair. I just doubt any desperate team is going to beat what Cleveland is offering, which is essentially two top 5 picks and they're probably packaging a few more first rounders. I don't blame Minnesota for pushing for Wiggins or Klay Thompson. I do blame them for being way too aggressive early in the game. I really wonder if they could have pulled this deal off a long time ago if they weren't so aggressive.