Keep fucking doubting Trent Green... - Page 13

11-17-2002, 03:03 PM

The title of the thread says it all....

fuck you doubters. He plays with heart, and he continues to get the job done. You people who bash Green, I don't even consider true fans. He plays his heart out every Sunday, and you continue to bash him...

Keep bashing him, I'll keep backing him.

11-19-2002, 11:52 AM

newchief.
You called me out to make a list....I did. Please respond as to which of those QBs you would NOT take over Green.

While I don't claim to be a Lombardi, I have participated in some football coaching....so I do know at least a little bit about things to look for.

philfree · 11-19-2002, 11:59 AM

Quote:

The play of the QB has EVERYTHING to do with next years contract and the money expected.

Yeah but what does next years contract have to do with the QBs play right now. I don't give a Shanarat's azz about what type of contrct he get's next year. Trent is leading the team and at this point it's just as much the intangibles as it is his stats that are making a good QB.

Quote:

its all relative, and I for one hope the coaches/management look at the big picture more than "rating".

So tell me Mr. Iowanian, What is the big picture we and the coaches should all be looking at?...............After trading a 1st round pick for Trent Green we should just let it be "pissed away" because Trent did play decent and might cost us a little more to keep him? I don't get it. I'm not saying Trent is a great HOF type QB but he is the best leader we've had behind center in a long time. He has heart, character and is very coachable. He's won over his teammates IMO. He's earned the right to be our guy for a few more years. IMO. And he's still improving......

PhilFree

NewChief · 11-19-2002, 12:00 PM

Actually, it wasn't me that asked for the list, and I don't care to respond to it. I've watched all those QB at one time or another, but I've not watched them to the extent that I've watched Green. Thus, I don't feel comfortable trying to make that comparison.

I'm not claiming objectivity here. I have my reasons for pumping Green up and supporting him. I'll admit that I'll likely do so regardless of his play. However, I think he's been playing much better this year than some here choose to give him credit for (I'm not pointing fingers at you Iowanian). I also think he's capable of playing even better and taking this team to an entirely new level. I'd love nothing more than to see Trent in a Chief's uniform for a long time, and see them have great success with him at the helm.

11-19-2002, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NewChief
I know that many people don't have much faith in the coaching staff, but I'd be pretty confident in their ability to see the big, big picture.

That's bullshit. The current coaching staff knows their job security goes through next season. If they could somehow see into the future and know that Green's knee is gonna collapse and he'll never play another day past 2003, I really don't think that would make a bit of difference to their willingness to resign him longterm.

philfree · 11-19-2002, 12:05 PM

Side Bar: These QB debates are really fun when both sides have enough ammo to actually have a debate.

PhilFree

Mark M · 11-19-2002, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by philfree
Side Bar: These QB debates are really fun when both sides have enough ammo to actually have a debate.

PhilFree

Agreed.

Of course, I still think that Chiefs fan are notoriously hard on QBs(myself included at times). It seems that most fans will never be happy with who the Chiefs have under center.

MM
~~Would hate to be a QB in KC

nmt1 · 11-19-2002, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taco_John

Of course, some of these other QBs can actually throw to their WRs.

You mean some throw to their receivers at a greater rate than Green.

htismaqe · 11-19-2002, 01:11 PM

That's bullshit. The current coaching staff knows their job security goes through next season. If they could somehow see into the future and know that Green's knee is gonna collapse and he'll never play another day past 2003, I really don't think that would make a bit of difference to their willingness to resign him longterm.

Do you really think the current staff cares THAT little about the team? You sound more bitter than reasonable.

11-19-2002, 01:50 PM

newchief...my mistake on calling you by name. my appology.

So...I take you're either related to or aquantinces with Trent Green?

I suppose its similar to a parent of an average looking kid putting them in beauty contests and not understanding why the judges can be so biased.

Philfree,
as far as 'big picture'....If I were King Carl in the offseason.....I'd look at several mitigating circumstances relating to QB success as much as failure.
ex. If a proven QB has a horrible year, but is playing behind a poor oline and is sacked a bazillion times...he gets more leeway.

How would Green do without the threat of Priest Holmes behind him and as a relief valve.(it sure looks to me like he goes to his outlet pretty quickly) Why can't he get the ball to Johnny Morton who has historically been able to get open enough for such Quarterbacking supa-stahs as Scott Mitchell and Charlie Batch to hit for near 1000 yards....I'd look at the tape and see how many plays when he's dumped the ball to Holmes or 88, there WERE open WR down the field.
My feeling is that either by coaches choice, or his own doing(to minimize INTs) he is not taking chances down the field as often as this Offense would normally dictate.

With a solid Running game, and conservative passing routes...Trent Dilfer can win a superbowl........but it still doesn't make him worthy of Dan Marino Money.

I'm not completely against the Chiefs resigning Green...He can be affective...but imo, in the "big picture"....if the Coaches and management don't look for ways to improve EVERY position, they are doing the owner, and me as a fan a grave injustice. Its not difficult to say "we can't upgrade 88, 31, many of the Oline"...but if they don't look for ways to at least make those positions more productive through either scheme or personell changes....they aren't doing THEIR jobs.

it still baffles me why you can't relate the play of Green this year as relevant to contract negotiations for him next year.......the big picture for the KC Chiefs.

I was a Chief fan before this quarterback came along, and will be a fan long after he is gone...reguardless of his success/failure.

phillfree · 11-19-2002, 03:43 PM

Iowanian, I'm sure the powers that be will look at every aspect of the team when the seasons over. Heck! They're probably doing it right now. And if they see a QB who is better suited to run the Chiefs offense I'm sure they will give it consideration. I would. But right now I don't know that there will be a QB better then Trent Green available. Exspecially if we're gonna try and get to the SuperBowl in DVs tenure. Do you have someone in mind?
As far as getting the ball to Morton as oppossed to dumping it off to Holmes. I think our biggest games on offense have come when Priest took those dump offs and did some serious damage. Maybe Trent was just making good decisions. Interestingly the last couple of games where we have been getting the ball to our WRs more we haven't scored as many points. And by the way since we have been trying to get the ball to our WRs more Trent has done so. The don't lose the game mentality that Dilfer played with in Baltimore is not even comparible to the scheme the Chiefs run. And the fact that we have tried to get the ball to our WRs more the last couple of weeks illustrates that our coaches are not having Green play with the same mentality as Dilfer's coaches had him do. They trust Green to run the offense and make the right decisions. IMO he's improving in that regard almost every game.
As far as Greens contract goes I don't think he's thinking about it right now. I don't think DV, Priest Holmes, Gonzo, Kennison, Will Shields or Willy Roaf are thinking about it either. I also think that Trent Green will be gald to negotiaote a far contract that will be more then cap friendly.
Also, after critiquing Trents defeciantcies why would we have to replace him with a different QB to fix them. Couldn't we just do it the DV way and keep identifying what needs to be improved upon and work to do so in the offseason. Or are you convinced tht Trent Green is as good as he's gonna get?

PhilFree

11-19-2002, 04:01 PM

I am glad to admit that I don't see Green making as many of the fundamental/mechanical flaws he made last year.....like throwing those ducks off his back foot falling away. I like seeing him throw the ball away instead of the INT's. The Repeated redzone INT's is what has specifically made me curse in Green's general Direction.

so yes...he still has room to eliminate fundamental flaws from his game....but I'm uncomfortable with a "30-something developing quarterback".....with a bad knee.

You don't think that Sanders/vermeil have some kind of reins on Green? I thought DV made it clear earlier in the season that they did....specifically to reduce INTs.....I could have been reading wrong when I was all high on that famous iowanian label crack.

I don't have a specific replacement in mind and haven't spent alot of time looking at available FAs. What I'd like to see is green resigned to a 3 year contract for a reasonable price and see the Chiefs take a shot on one of the plethora of QB's coming out this year....with the shear numbers, there will be some quality prospects in the middle rounds.

The Hawkeye in me would like to see Banks selected in round 4.(if he is available) but there are other prospects......and with the impending "franchise qb's" in this draft....there are bound to be a couple of veteran FA opportunities if Green isn't reasonable in his demand.

Again....I'm not calling for Green's head, i don't hate him and I won't be complaining Because/if he is resigned in KC...

phillfree · 11-19-2002, 04:13 PM

That's reasonable

PhilFree

HeadArrow · 11-19-2002, 06:54 PM

Iowonian-

That was me that asked for the list. Haven't had time to catch up on the responses until now.

What do you base your preference of QB on? Green has developed into the leader of this team, and is respected by his teamates.

Of the 12 you listed, I would only take Favre or Bledsoe in a trade without having to think.

Brady is a possibility, but he didn't win the SuperBowl on his arm. New England won with a strong defense and adequate offense.

Garcia is a possibility, but has comparable numbers. Why switch?

Gannon is having a better statistical year than any full time starter, but is too old and I don't see him passing downfield. He's great and the dink and dunk.

Brooks, McNabb, Warner, Brees, Vick, and Culpepper are having worse years statistically than Green.

We could argue the pros and cons of each one of these. But instead of everyone pointing out the small mistakes of one of our best playes, lets concentrate on our weekness (STILL OUR DEFENSE).

EVERY player on the Chiefs should be criticized every week if we go by most of what's been said here by the bashers. Priest Holmes fumble cost us the game in New England, but he certainly didn't get much criticism on this board. And I'm not going to do it because he creates much more positive than negative (same with Green).

Let's give "constructive criticism" about something that will actually help if we change (Linebacker play, cornerback play, lack of pass rush, poor play calling, etc..). Changing QB's next year would be a huge mistake, and YES I think Green deserves top 10 money.

**RealSNR** · 05-12-2003, 09:54 PM

These keep fucking doubting threads should resemble this one. Otherwise they aren't funny.

Taco John · 05-12-2003, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SNR
These keep fucking doubting threads should resemble this one. Otherwise they aren't funny.

THANK YOU!

I hate it when people use the joke, but don't "use" the joke.

11-17-2002, 03:03 PM
ChiefsPride Guest Casino cash: $	Keep fucking doubting Trent Green... The title of the thread says it all.... fuck you doubters. He plays with heart, and he continues to get the job done. You people who bash Green, I don't even consider true fans. He plays his heart out every Sunday, and you continue to bash him... Keep bashing him, I'll keep backing him.
Posts: n/a

11-19-2002, 11:52 AM	#181
Iowanian Guest Casino cash: $	newchief. You called me out to make a list....I did. Please respond as to which of those QBs you would NOT take over Green. While I don't claim to be a Lombardi, I have participated in some football coaching....so I do know at least a little bit about things to look for.
Posts: n/a

11-19-2002, 12:00 PM	#183
NewChief In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Fayetteville, AR Casino cash: $8660204	Actually, it wasn't me that asked for the list, and I don't care to respond to it. I've watched all those QB at one time or another, but I've not watched them to the extent that I've watched Green. Thus, I don't feel comfortable trying to make that comparison. I'm not claiming objectivity here. I have my reasons for pumping Green up and supporting him. I'll admit that I'll likely do so regardless of his play. However, I think he's been playing much better this year than some here choose to give him credit for (I'm not pointing fingers at you Iowanian). I also think he's capable of playing even better and taking this team to an entirely new level. I'd love nothing more than to see Trent in a Chief's uniform for a long time, and see them have great success with him at the helm. __________________ In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. - H. L. Mencken
Posts: 21,792

11-19-2002, 12:05 PM	#185
philfree Indian Twitter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Free Agency Casino cash: $-433802	Side Bar: These QB debates are really fun when both sides have enough ammo to actually have a debate. PhilFree __________________ [/SIGPIC]
Posts: 15,593

11-19-2002, 01:11 PM	#188
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $9619900	That's bullshit. The current coaching staff knows their job security goes through next season. If they could somehow see into the future and know that Green's knee is gonna collapse and he'll never play another day past 2003, I really don't think that would make a bit of difference to their willingness to resign him longterm. Do you really think the current staff cares THAT little about the team? You sound more bitter than reasonable.
Posts: 100,422

11-19-2002, 01:50 PM	#189
Iowanian Guest Casino cash: $	newchief...my mistake on calling you by name. my appology. So...I take you're either related to or aquantinces with Trent Green? I suppose its similar to a parent of an average looking kid putting them in beauty contests and not understanding why the judges can be so biased. Philfree, as far as 'big picture'....If I were King Carl in the offseason.....I'd look at several mitigating circumstances relating to QB success as much as failure. ex. If a proven QB has a horrible year, but is playing behind a poor oline and is sacked a bazillion times...he gets more leeway. How would Green do without the threat of Priest Holmes behind him and as a relief valve.(it sure looks to me like he goes to his outlet pretty quickly) Why can't he get the ball to Johnny Morton who has historically been able to get open enough for such Quarterbacking supa-stahs as Scott Mitchell and Charlie Batch to hit for near 1000 yards....I'd look at the tape and see how many plays when he's dumped the ball to Holmes or 88, there WERE open WR down the field. My feeling is that either by coaches choice, or his own doing(to minimize INTs) he is not taking chances down the field as often as this Offense would normally dictate. With a solid Running game, and conservative passing routes...Trent Dilfer can win a superbowl........but it still doesn't make him worthy of Dan Marino Money. I'm not completely against the Chiefs resigning Green...He can be affective...but imo, in the "big picture"....if the Coaches and management don't look for ways to improve EVERY position, they are doing the owner, and me as a fan a grave injustice. Its not difficult to say "we can't upgrade 88, 31, many of the Oline"...but if they don't look for ways to at least make those positions more productive through either scheme or personell changes....they aren't doing THEIR jobs. it still baffles me why you can't relate the play of Green this year as relevant to contract negotiations for him next year.......the big picture for the KC Chiefs. I was a Chief fan before this quarterback came along, and will be a fan long after he is gone...reguardless of his success/failure.
Posts: n/a

11-19-2002, 03:43 PM	#190
phillfree Starter Join Date: Mar 2001 Casino cash: $10004900	Iowanian, I'm sure the powers that be will look at every aspect of the team when the seasons over. Heck! They're probably doing it right now. And if they see a QB who is better suited to run the Chiefs offense I'm sure they will give it consideration. I would. But right now I don't know that there will be a QB better then Trent Green available. Exspecially if we're gonna try and get to the SuperBowl in DVs tenure. Do you have someone in mind? As far as getting the ball to Morton as oppossed to dumping it off to Holmes. I think our biggest games on offense have come when Priest took those dump offs and did some serious damage. Maybe Trent was just making good decisions. Interestingly the last couple of games where we have been getting the ball to our WRs more we haven't scored as many points. And by the way since we have been trying to get the ball to our WRs more Trent has done so. The don't lose the game mentality that Dilfer played with in Baltimore is not even comparible to the scheme the Chiefs run. And the fact that we have tried to get the ball to our WRs more the last couple of weeks illustrates that our coaches are not having Green play with the same mentality as Dilfer's coaches had him do. They trust Green to run the offense and make the right decisions. IMO he's improving in that regard almost every game. As far as Greens contract goes I don't think he's thinking about it right now. I don't think DV, Priest Holmes, Gonzo, Kennison, Will Shields or Willy Roaf are thinking about it either. I also think that Trent Green will be gald to negotiaote a far contract that will be more then cap friendly. Also, after critiquing Trents defeciantcies why would we have to replace him with a different QB to fix them. Couldn't we just do it the DV way and keep identifying what needs to be improved upon and work to do so in the offseason. Or are you convinced tht Trent Green is as good as he's gonna get? PhilFree
Posts: 78

11-19-2002, 04:01 PM	#191
Iowanian Guest Casino cash: $	I am glad to admit that I don't see Green making as many of the fundamental/mechanical flaws he made last year.....like throwing those ducks off his back foot falling away. I like seeing him throw the ball away instead of the INT's. The Repeated redzone INT's is what has specifically made me curse in Green's general Direction. so yes...he still has room to eliminate fundamental flaws from his game....but I'm uncomfortable with a "30-something developing quarterback".....with a bad knee. You don't think that Sanders/vermeil have some kind of reins on Green? I thought DV made it clear earlier in the season that they did....specifically to reduce INTs.....I could have been reading wrong when I was all high on that famous iowanian label crack. I don't have a specific replacement in mind and haven't spent alot of time looking at available FAs. What I'd like to see is green resigned to a 3 year contract for a reasonable price and see the Chiefs take a shot on one of the plethora of QB's coming out this year....with the shear numbers, there will be some quality prospects in the middle rounds. The Hawkeye in me would like to see Banks selected in round 4.(if he is available) but there are other prospects......and with the impending "franchise qb's" in this draft....there are bound to be a couple of veteran FA opportunities if Green isn't reasonable in his demand. Again....I'm not calling for Green's head, i don't hate him and I won't be complaining Because/if he is resigned in KC...
Posts: n/a

11-19-2002, 04:13 PM	#192
phillfree Starter Join Date: Mar 2001 Casino cash: $10004900	That's reasonable PhilFree
Posts: 78

11-19-2002, 06:54 PM	#193
HeadArrow Rookie Join Date: Apr 2001 Casino cash: $9994900	Iowonian- That was me that asked for the list. Haven't had time to catch up on the responses until now. What do you base your preference of QB on? Green has developed into the leader of this team, and is respected by his teamates. Of the 12 you listed, I would only take Favre or Bledsoe in a trade without having to think. Brady is a possibility, but he didn't win the SuperBowl on his arm. New England won with a strong defense and adequate offense. Garcia is a possibility, but has comparable numbers. Why switch? Gannon is having a better statistical year than any full time starter, but is too old and I don't see him passing downfield. He's great and the dink and dunk. Brooks, McNabb, Warner, Brees, Vick, and Culpepper are having worse years statistically than Green. We could argue the pros and cons of each one of these. But instead of everyone pointing out the small mistakes of one of our best playes, lets concentrate on our weekness (STILL OUR DEFENSE). EVERY player on the Chiefs should be criticized every week if we go by most of what's been said here by the bashers. Priest Holmes fumble cost us the game in New England, but he certainly didn't get much criticism on this board. And I'm not going to do it because he creates much more positive than negative (same with Green). Let's give "constructive criticism" about something that will actually help if we change (Linebacker play, cornerback play, lack of pass rush, poor play calling, etc..). Changing QB's next year would be a huge mistake, and YES I think Green deserves top 10 money. __________________ It's the Defense stupid!
Posts: 28