Veach is the best GM in the NFL

[staylor26]

I don’t think it’s even debatable at this point

[Bowser]

Clark was instrumental in getting us a championship. I'll never regret bringing him in here or be pissed at Veach because he did. That said, he can kick rock now.

The next three years will be crucial to answering the question of how good of a GM Veach has been and will be. Massive contracts on the horizon and gaping holes at important positions are going to test him. He was a wizard from the jump finding bit players to make major contributions, now let's see if he can find the future pro bowlers out there.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

The Clark one is the worst for me. It just sucks.

Other than that, I'd say they're pretty defendable

Thing is, every team is gonna have warts especially one they're as far in as we are. The league just isn't easy to stay good and equipped roster wise for that long. It's probably time for a little bit of a roster churn turnover.

Hardman bugs me the most.

If only because I think it was such an obvious 'lost the forest for the trees' moment and it demonstrated a sort of tunnel vision that I first voiced my concerns about when the Speaks debacle happened.

Obviously the Hardman thing was far less aggressive and less damaging, but it was most demonstrative of a long-term flaw and I think it's one that's surfaced a handful of times.

[MahomesMagic]

The Hardman pick still bothers me. Just too many talented guys still on the board such as Metcalf, Mclaurin, and Diontae Johnson.

And these weren't exactly tough calls..lots of people knew these guys were good.

I do like that they have mentioned route running since so hopefully they know why they missed.

I love the value plays and Veach has brought a lot to the bottom of the roster.

We just need to hit on some stars. I honestly think this year might be his best work yet.

Creed should have gone in the 1st, Trey is a starter from the 6th.

FA Mathieu amazing, Clark mostly bad.

Love OL rebuild this year, wish we had signed Melvin Ingram.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Superturtle

Could not disagree more on Wentz, I suppose. Trading that significant of draft capital for a mentally and physically broken QB that's

Fair. There's room for disagreement there.

Personally I didn't think the cost was too steep. A 3rd rounder is dick and if he plays 75% of the snaps to convert that future 2 into a 1, then it still had the 'real time' value of a 2. And if it doesn't convert, it's real time value was a 3.

So you're talking about giving up (at most) a 2nd and a 3rd for a guy who was a probable MVP early in his career? Sure, there's a health risk there, but without the health risk, guys like this don't become available. So that's kind of the risk you have to take.

As for the mentally broken thing - that one really didn't bother me because it was such a product of the environment. I figured a re-set would get him out of that funk and at that point it's just a question of whether or not his back issues have taken the starch out of his arm talent (a real possibility - 'arm talent' is a misnomer. The back is critical in the kinetic chain).

I'm just not sure what else he could've done to find a QB with pro-bowl upside apart from REALLY set his draft capital on fire. I mean Stafford is probably it and he cost a ton. If you're a guy like Ballard who has demonstrated the value he can get out of those picks, it's a hard pill to swallow to give up that much.

[Shields68]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

The Hardman pick still bothers me. Just too many talented guys still on the board such as Metcalf, Mclaurin, and Diontae Johnson.

And these weren't exactly tough calls..lots of people knew these guys were good.

I do like that they have mentioned route running since so hopefully they know why they missed.

I love the value plays and Veach has brought a lot to the bottom of the roster.

We just need to hit on some stars. I honestly think this year might be his best work yet.

Creed should have gone in the 1st, Trey is a starter from the 6th.

FA Mathieu amazing, Clark mostly bad.

Love OL rebuild this year, wish we had signed Melvin Ingram.

The Hardman pick seemed to be a overreaction and panic after the Tyreke allegations surfaced. Some how believing his speed might replace Tyreke.

Clark I will give him a pass the Defense needed his attitude and that alone was worth it at the time. But it seems like we are in the can't wait till he is off the books mode awful soon into it.

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by Shields68

The Hardman pick seemed to be a overreaction and panic after the Tyreke allegations surfaced. Some how believing his speed might replace Tyreke.

Clark I will give him a pass the Defense needed his attitude and that alone was worth it at the time. But it seems like we are in the can't wait till he is off the books mode awful soon into it.

Metcalf was an obvious 1st round pick. His negatives were that he couldn't run a full route tree. So what? The 4 routes he ran were elite..good luck stopping those.

Mclaurin reminded me of a bigger TY Hilton. Just a guy that was going to get open and could threaten to take it to the house any play.

Johnson was my guy from the MAC.

Obviously Metcalf and McLaurin are #1 WR's now but Diontae is also way better than Mecole.

[Bowser]

And it's worth saying again that it was Veach that convinced the brain trust to go after Mahomes, not Dorsey.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I know it's become the new cool thing to shit on veach.

But the entire starting OL and secondary minus Sorensen and including honey Badger are his. I think our LBs will be solid. Solid units where we didn't spend a ton of money.

So really his problem areas are that he hasn't found a WR2, a RB, and we're missing probably one pass rusher. For a team that doesn't have very much cap space and has a ton of talent everywhere else. He's still a hell of a GM.

Pretty sure I read that the Chiefs have the most cap space of any team in the NFL committed to the DL. And it's getting wrecked. I feel like you're hand-waiving that fact a fair amount.

And to say "well he hasn't found a WR2..." when he's had 4 years to do so and inherited the baddest mother****er on the planet as his WR1, not to mention an all-world QB and probably the the best pass-catching TE of all time....I mean, that's a little more damning than you're letting on as well.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Bowser

And it's worth saying again that it was Veach that convinced the brain trust to go after Mahomes, not Dorsey.

Absolutely something worth pointing out.

It's also worth saying that John Dorsey knew exactly where he had to be to bring Mahomes into the organization, a spot that nobody really expected him to have to get to. And as it turned out the team right behind where he landed would've taken him.

Meanwhile we've seen Veach get caught flat-footed on the Speaks and Hardman picks.

Veach did an excellent job scouting but the real "GM Work" in ensuring that PM was a member of the Chiefs was done by Dorsey and its impossible to overstate what an amazing job he did getting us where we needed to be.

[MahomesMagic]

Darnell Mooney went in the 5th last year and he would be better than any WR on our roster other than Tyreek and (pending exam: Gordon).

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

Metcalf was an obvious 1st round pick. His negatives were that he couldn't run a full route tree. So what? The 4 routes he ran were elite..good luck stopping those.

Mclaurin reminded me of a bigger TY Hilton. Just a guy that was going to get open and could threaten to take it to the house any play.

Johnson was my guy from the MAC.

Obviously Metcalf and McLaurin are #1 WR's now but Diontae is also way better than Mecole.

I understood not going with DK.

Not being able to run a full route tree is kindof a big deal in Andy's offense. It's just so predicated on quick movements getting into space and precise timing.

If you don't believe a guy can make those sort of moves, you just sort of have a hulk-sized Chris Conley on your hands. I get him not being on the Chiefs draft board because he just wasn't quite the right sort of player.

But AJ Brown and McLaurin should've been. And to see Brown go a few spots before we took Hardman is just another one of those instances where I say "hey, are we sure Veach would've had the foresight/connections to know to get up to 10 and get PM?"

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Absolutely something worth pointing out.

It's also worth saying that John Dorsey knew exactly where he had to be to bring Mahomes into the organization, a spot that nobody really expected him to have to get to. And as it turned out the team right behind where he landed would've taken him.

Meanwhile we've seen Veach get caught flat-footed on the Speaks and Hardman picks.

Veach did an excellent job scouting but the real "GM Work" in ensuring that PM was a member of the Chiefs was done by Dorsey and its impossible to overstate what an amazing job he did getting us where we needed to be.

Pretty sure Veach got that info from Cabbott/Steinberg.

"Based on their intel, Cabott said they expected Mahomes would be taken shortly after the ninth pick. He described the lineup of the Bills, Saints, Browns and Cardinals at the 10th through 13th picks as the “hot corner” for Mahomes."

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I understood not going with DK.

Not being able to run a full route tree is kindof a big deal in Andy's offense. It's just so predicated on quick movements getting into space and precise timing.

If you don't believe a guy can make those sort of moves, you just sort of have a hulk-sized Chris Conley on your hands. I get him not being on the Chiefs draft board because he just wasn't quite the right sort of player.

But AJ Brown and McLaurin should've been. And to see Brown go a few spots before we took Hardman is just another one of those instances where I say "hey, are we sure Veach would've had the foresight/connections to know to get up to 10 and get PM?"

I had Terry as a 1st round talent that year. He slipped because Ohio State was wasting reps on other guys that weren't as good such as Parris Campbell.

McLaurin had it all. Size, 4.3 speed, and incredible route runner.

[FloridaMan88]

Originally Posted by Shields68

The Hardman pick seemed to be a overreaction and panic after the Tyreke allegations surfaced. Some how believing his speed might replace Tyreke.

Agreed... it seems like the Hardman pick was trying to find a WR who resembled Tyreek Hill as much as possible, with the uncertainty at the time regarding Tyreek's future.

Also while it's easy to look back now and say the Chiefs should have drafted Metcalf... he was the ninth WR taken in that draft... so it's not like many teams were projecting the success he's ultimately had.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

Agreed... it seems like the Hardman pick was trying to find a WR who resembled Tyreek Hill as much as possible, with the uncertainty at the time regarding Tyreek's future.

Also while it's easy to look back now and say the Chiefs should have drafted Metcalf... he was the ninth WR taken in that draft... so it's not like many teams were projecting the success he's ultimately had.

I 1000% agree that's why he did it.

And it was silly. You don't just 'replace' a HoFer. If Hill's gone, you pivot. You adapt the offense and find a new normal.

That's why I refer to a bit of tunnel vision there. He just made a mistake. He got too locked in on a particular dilemma and it kept him from making the correct decision.