EV Cars/Trucks

[synthesis2]

Since I was banned from the Gas thread for simply saying I was glad I have a EV car now I thought I'd answer the question that was posed to me by another before I was banned.(still have zero idea why.

We have a Model 3 long range, it gets around 340 miles per charge and our all in was 50k for the car, $500 for the Wall Charger (you don't need but its cool looking)

Our previous car was a Porsche Cayenne, here is what we spent in the year we owned it. My wife is a rep and uses as her company car. ( she gets paid mileage) so we paid 40k for it. Was a year old when we got it. She drove it 50K in a year, we had to use premium unleaded gas and it got around 18 miles per gallon. We had to get it serviced 3 times with a average cost of $500-700 on each service. I don't know how much we paid in gas but lets assume we still had it today and Premium was going for 4.50 a gallon, it would be around 12-14k on gas a year, along with $1500-2000 in services so our all in each year was 13.5-16k per year in service and gas.

With our Tesla our electricity has seemed to go up $40-50 per month, so lets call it $600 plus tires rotated $100, windshield wiper fluid $5 so for the year its around $800 vs. 13.5-16k.

So the 10k cost difference was made up in less than a year and now we are saving 12k plus per year compared. Plus she loves the car much more than the Porsche.

I know compared with a ford focus the math may not ever make sense but for a nicer car its been awesome for us.

[Couch-Potato]

Originally Posted by DaFace

I'm starting to be a little worried about how much progress Chinese EV companies are making. We'll probably end up regulating them out of having much of an impact in the U.S., but they could take a real bite out of U.S. manufacturers' global car sales. Based on sales trends outside the U.S., other countries don't seem to have as many aversions to EVs as U.S. consumers do (some of which makes sense given how much more spread apart people are here).

I'm curious to ask why? Do you work in the automotive industry? Buy their stock? ...I don't see how China producing affordable EV cars is bad for the average global and/or US consumer. The price of US vehicles, specifically, have absolutely sky-rocketed in recent years! I was in love with the idea of buying a jeep, when I was a kid it was super cool to drive a beat up wrangler, the low end wranglers now cost something like $60k and the top end wrangler goes for a whopping $100k+ after taxes!!!??? WTF!? It's not a ****ing house! I'd argue that Chinese competition might help reduce the rate of YOY price increases on similar US vehicles and offer a tiny piece of the total solution for dampening the inflation we're currently seeing in that market.

[BWillie]

I really like how much faster my 2024 Tesla supercharges compared to my 2016 Model S Tesla. I get up to 1000 mph now when I plug in and the battery is low. It quickly goes down to around 800 but I used to max at 580 I feel like in my old one. Also when the battery is 60-80% full it also charges faster. Makes road trips that much better now.

Would never ever get a EV if it wasn't for the Tesla supercharging network.

[notorious]

American made cars will get cheaper, but you will need to pay a subscription for every little thing in it.

Want AC? **** you pay me money. Want to use cruise control? **** you pay me money. Want to listen to the stereo? **** you pay me money.


It’s coming.

[BWillie]

Originally Posted by notorious

American made cars will get cheaper, but you will need to pay a subscription for every little thing in it.

Want AC? **** you pay me money. Want to use cruise control? **** you pay me money. Want to listen to the stereo? **** you pay me money.


It’s coming.

Yeah Tesla already has a $9.99 a month for "premium connectivity" which is such a crock. You can't really even be able to use the features without it except for the map. I have to use Tune In to get AM radio. Can't use spotify, etc. I just use my phone as a hot spot right now but I'm sure I'll get tired of doing that and just breakdown and buy it. I can't figure out a way for the car to automatically connect to the wifi of my phone after I start driving. I have to manually turn the wifi back on when I start a trip, which is annoying.

[ghak99]

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato

I'm curious to ask why? Do you work in the automotive industry? Buy their stock? ...I don't see how China producing affordable EV cars is bad for the average global and/or US consumer. The price of US vehicles, specifically, have absolutely sky-rocketed in recent years! I was in love with the idea of buying a jeep, when I was a kid it was super cool to drive a beat up wrangler, the low end wranglers now cost something like $60k and the top end wrangler goes for a whopping $100k+ after taxes!!!??? WTF!? It's not a ****ing house! I'd argue that Chinese competition might help reduce the rate of YOY price increases on similar US vehicles and offer a tiny piece of the total solution for dampening the inflation we're currently seeing in that market.

It sounds like you're talking about allowing Chinese economics and production methods to break the Unions. If allowed, it would be quite the viewing experience.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by BWillie

Yeah Tesla already has a $9.99 a month for "premium connectivity" which is such a crock. You can't really even be able to use the features without it except for the map. I have to use Tune In to get AM radio. Can't use spotify, etc. I just use my phone as a hot spot right now but I'm sure I'll get tired of doing that and just breakdown and buy it. I can't figure out a way for the car to automatically connect to the wifi of my phone after I start driving. I have to manually turn the wifi back on when I start a trip, which is annoying.

My free premium connectivity trial ran out and I didn't even notice, TBH. I listen to FM or Amazon Music through my phone, and neither of those changed.

[DaFace]

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato

I'm curious to ask why? Do you work in the automotive industry? Buy their stock? ...I don't see how China producing affordable EV cars is bad for the average global and/or US consumer. The price of US vehicles, specifically, have absolutely sky-rocketed in recent years! I was in love with the idea of buying a jeep, when I was a kid it was super cool to drive a beat up wrangler, the low end wranglers now cost something like $60k and the top end wrangler goes for a whopping $100k+ after taxes!!!??? WTF!? It's not a ****ing house! I'd argue that Chinese competition might help reduce the rate of YOY price increases on similar US vehicles and offer a tiny piece of the total solution for dampening the inflation we're currently seeing in that market.

Just a general desire to see U.S. manufacturing remain a healthy and viable industry.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by DaFace

Just a general desire to see U.S. manufacturing remain a healthy and viable industry.

US EV manufacturers are lucky Honda and Toyota seem uninterested in taking BEVs seriously, IMO.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by BWillie

I really like how much faster my 2024 Tesla supercharges compared to my 2016 Model S Tesla. I get up to 1000 mph now when I plug in and the battery is low. It quickly goes down to around 800 but I used to max at 580 I feel like in my old one. Also when the battery is 60-80% full it also charges faster. Makes road trips that much better now.

Would never ever get a EV if it wasn't for the Tesla supercharging network.

Holy shit that is fast! Almost Mach 2! Where do you drive it so fast?

[ScareCrowe]

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Offering one at $25k sounds like a good move in the right direction.

Back to the battery exchange thing.

I remember when I would not do that with propane tanks because my cylinders were pretty new (they have a date code) and didn't want an old piece of crap in exchange.

For the last few years I could care less and only care about it being full. The exchange is fully automated.

I can see that same attitude carrying over to EV batteries. You pull into a quick change place and snap, $20 and they swap in a fully charged battery in a few minutes.

This would make longer trips possible again without long charging delays.

Problem is a propane tank is a way different scenario than an EV battery. Hell you said you didn't want to trade in tanks because the ones you had were less scratched than the ones you were going to get back. They were going to work exactly the same, but just them looking nice made you want to hold on to them.

Batteries however, unlike tanks, degrade over time. The old scratched up propane tank you were going to get in return was going to hold just as much propane as the newer ones you traded in. And tanks tend to not really die like batteries do. Now you're trading in a brand new battery & could get one that may have been in use a while & down to 80% capacity of a new one.

Furthermore what happens when that battery completely dies & needs to be replaced, is it the responsibility of the car owner or the owner of the "battery changing station" to replace it? If it's on the shop, these shops are in essence providing EV owners with free battery replacements for life. If not you could trade in a brand new battery for one that dies on you & now you have to replace a battery in a brand new car. In the rare instance a tank would die, you just pull it out of your grill & reexchange it. The company won't notice it's not working until they go to refill it & then they will fix it. I'm thinking when you have to tow your EV back to get the dead battery replaced they're going to realize somethings wrong with it.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by ScareCrowe

Problem is a propane tank is a way different scenario than an EV battery. Hell you said you didn't want to trade in tanks because the ones you had were less scratched than the ones you were going to get back. They were going to work exactly the same, but just them looking nice made you want to hold on to them.

Batteries however, unlike tanks, degrade over time. The old scratched up propane tank you were going to get in return was going to hold just as much propane as the newer ones you traded in. And tanks tend to not really die like batteries do. Now you're trading in a brand new battery & could get one that may have been in use a while & down to 80% capacity of a new one.

Furthermore what happens when that battery completely dies & needs to be replaced, is it the responsibility of the car owner or the owner of the "battery changing station" to replace it? If it's on the shop, these shops are in essence providing EV owners with free battery replacements for life. If not you could trade in a brand new battery for one that dies on you & now you have to replace a battery in a brand new car. In the rare instance a tank would die, you just pull it out of your grill & reexchange it. The company won't notice it's not working until they go to refill it & then they will fix it. I'm thinking when you have to tow your EV back to get the dead battery replaced they're going to realize somethings wrong with it.

Batteries don't really "die" like that, the charge they can hold just keeps decreasing until the effective range makes the car less usable. So you could have a battery at the end of its life and just charge it enough to get to the battery swap station and leave them with a bad battery. The battery swap company would need to factor the cost of buying new batteries to replace bad ones into the prices they charge for the battery swap service.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by ScareCrowe

Problem is a propane tank is a way different scenario than an EV battery. Hell you said you didn't want to trade in tanks because the ones you had were less scratched than the ones you were going to get back. They were going to work exactly the same, but just them looking nice made you want to hold on to them.

Batteries however, unlike tanks, degrade over time. The old scratched up propane tank you were going to get in return was going to hold just as much propane as the newer ones you traded in. And tanks tend to not really die like batteries do. Now you're trading in a brand new battery & could get one that may have been in use a while & down to 80% capacity of a new one.

Furthermore what happens when that battery completely dies & needs to be replaced, is it the responsibility of the car owner or the owner of the "battery changing station" to replace it? If it's on the shop, these shops are in essence providing EV owners with free battery replacements for life. If not you could trade in a brand new battery for one that dies on you & now you have to replace a battery in a brand new car. In the rare instance a tank would die, you just pull it out of your grill & reexchange it. The company won't notice it's not working until they go to refill it & then they will fix it. I'm thinking when you have to tow your EV back to get the dead battery replaced they're going to realize somethings wrong with it.

You bring up some good points.

To start with, on the propane tanks, they used to have a date on them that when it had passed, they could not be refilled anymore. I had that happen once, but it was before these automated exchange centers existed.

You would take your tank to the refill station and they would check the date on your tank. I could care less if it was scratched up, it was the date that was the issue and also there were a couple different types of connectors initially. Depending on the type of connector your grill had, you had to have a compatible one on your tank.

Similar issue to the different charging connector issues on the EV batteries that exist now.

Without question, the cost of the EV batteries and where yours is at in it's life cycle will have to be factored in. I am very cognizant of battery life cycles and how they degrade.

It will be interesting to see how it is all worked out. At one time the propane tank issues seemed insurmountable.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

Batteries don't really "die" like that, the charge they can hold just keeps decreasing until the effective range makes the car less usable. So you could have a battery at the end of its life and just charge it enough to get to the battery swap station and leave them with a bad battery. The battery swap company would need to factor the cost of buying new batteries to replace bad ones into the prices they charge for the battery swap service.

I can see them having a test system or analyzer to make this kind of swap fair to both parties. I know on lead/acid batteries it exists but am not familiar with the technology on these new batteries.
I recently bought a lithium battery for the Jetski and it is much different.

[kstater]

Every single cybertruck getting recalled.

Sent from my SM-S916U1 using Tapatalk

[DaFace]

Originally Posted by kstater

Every single cybertruck getting recalled.

Sent from my SM-S916U1 using Tapatalk

Whoops.

NEW: Tesla recalls all 3,878 Cybertrucks shipped to date because of a faulty accelerator pedal. https://t.co/tihjl2HAfO

— Sean O'Kane (@sokane1) April 19, 2024

It'll be fascinating to look back on Cybertruck in 10 years. On the surface, it looks like it's likely going to be a financial flop, but you could make an argument that it's done a pretty good job of keeping Tesla top of mind even while other EV manufacturers are (kinda) catching up.