Driverless cars could change everything

[DaFace]

Thought this article was cool to think about.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-28376929

Driverless cars could change everything


For now, it seems like a novelty - cars that can operate independently of human control, safely cruising down streets thanks to an array of sensors and pinpoint GPS navigation.

But if the technology avoids getting crushed by government regulators and product liability lawsuits, writes the Federalist's Dan McLaughlin, it could prompt a cultural shift similar to the early 20th century move away from horses as the primary means of transportation.

First and foremost, he writes, the spread of driverless cars will likely greatly reduce the number of traffic accidents - which currently cost Americans $871b (£510b) a year.

"A truly driverless road would not be accident-free, given the number of accidents that would still be caused by mechanical and computer errors, weather conditions, pedestrians, bicyclists, motorcyclists and sheer random chance," he says. "But it would make the now-routine loss of life and limb on the roads far rarer."

Computer-operated cars would eventually reshape car design, he says, as things like windshields - "a large and vulnerable piece of glass" - become less necessary. Drivers will be able to sit wherever they'd like in their cars, which could make car interiors more like mobile lounges than like cockpits.

The age required to operate a driverless car is likely to drop, he says. There could be an impact on the legal drinking age, as well, as preventing drunk driving was one of the prime justifications for the US-wide setting minimum age to purchase alcohol at 21 years old.

There's other possible economic fallout, McLaughlin contends, such as a restructuring of the auto insurance industry, the obsolescence of taxi drivers and lower ratings for drive-time radio programmes.

The high-tech security state will also get boost, he writes, as GPS-tagged cars will be easier to track, making life difficult for fugitives and car thieves. Police will also be able to move resources away from operations like traffic enforcement.

Of course, he writes, the towns that rely on speed traps to fund their government services will be facing budget shortfalls. Privacy advocates could also get an unexpected boost, he notes, since traffic stops are one of the main justifications for police vehicle searches.

Finally, there's the prospect of the as-yet-unrealised futurist dream of flying cars. With computer-controlled vehicles that strictly follow traffic rules, McLaughlin says, "the potential for three-dimensional roads becomes a lot less scary and more a matter of simply solving the technological challenge".

Where we're going, we may not need roads after all.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by DaFace

At this point, I don't really even think that's a straightforward statement. We've learned in the past 10 years or so that "self-driving" is a spectrum, not a definition. I would imagine that a majority of mid-tier or higher cars sold today have at least adaptive cruise control and/or lane control. That's all my 2021 Rav4 Prime has, but it certainly can drive itself on the highway if the rules are "stay in lane and don't hit the car in front of you."

Teslas add a few additional steps to that - more advanced versions of the above, change lanes with just the push of the turn signal, stopping at stop lights/signs, etc.

Beyond that, there really aren't any options that are truly ready for prime time, and it seems like the growth curve has been flattening out in terms of tangible progress. Everything that's out there is really only able to adapt to a specific geographic area, and the ones that can do more than that (Tesla's FSD) still can't handle a lot of fringe scenarios (weird road construction markings, for example).

I do think things will get there, but it's going to take longer than everyone was thinking a few years ago. So for the forseeable future, the question is going to be what self-driving features a car has rather than whether it is "self-driving."

You make good points.

I was talking to my SIL on this visit and he said he had rented a rental car on their vacation that would over ride his steering some on the lane control when passing an eighteen wheeler. Is that the "adaptive cruise control" you referenced?

Also, another feature some of these new vehicles have that I have noticed on rental cars, the motor will shut off when at a stop light/sign. That can not be good for the engine long term but I bet it really helps in those big traffic jams in metropolitan areas.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by HemiEd

You make good points.

I was talking to my SIL on this visit and he said he had rented a rental car on their vacation that would over ride his steering some on the lane control when passing an eighteen wheeler. Is that the "adaptive cruise control" you referenced?

Also, another feature some of these new vehicles have that I have noticed on rental cars, the motor will shut off when at a stop light/sign. That can not be good for the engine long term but I bet it really helps in those big traffic jams in metropolitan areas.

I can set my cruise control to automatically slow down within 1-3 car lengths of a vehicle in front of me... so if I have cruise set to 70, it'll brake as it approaches a slower vehicle and then automatically speed up when you change lanes.

You can also set it to automatically change lanes whenever you turn on the blinker, and also set it so it'll stay within the lanes (it also complains if you take your hands off the wheel).

There's been a time or two where it'll override steering a bit, so I don't use it much... and once where it slammed the brakes on the highway thinking I was about to hit something, but nothing was in my lane at all (and fortunately no one behind me).

The last car I owned had the auto stop/start thing, but only for eco mode.. my current one does it all the time and don't think there's a way to disable it..... if you slow down just right though, it won't turn off. It's impressively seamless though when it does start up, even though I also wonder about long term effects.

[Strongside]

Originally Posted by HemiEd

You make good points.

I was talking to my SIL on this visit and he said he had rented a rental car on their vacation that would over ride his steering some on the lane control when passing an eighteen wheeler. Is that the "adaptive cruise control" you referenced?

Also, another feature some of these new vehicles have that I have noticed on rental cars, the motor will shut off when at a stop light/sign. That can not be good for the engine long term but I bet it really helps in those big traffic jams in metropolitan areas.

My F150 starts and stops the engine at stop lights.

120k miles and never an issue.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I can set my cruise control to automatically slow down within 1-3 car lengths of a vehicle in front of me... so if I have cruise set to 70, it'll brake as it approaches a slower vehicle and then automatically speed up when you change lanes.

You can also set it to automatically change lanes whenever you turn on the blinker, and also set it so it'll stay within the lanes (it also complains if you take your hands off the wheel).

There's been a time or two where it'll override steering a bit, so I don't use it much... and once where it slammed the brakes on the highway thinking I was about to hit something, but nothing was in my lane at all (and fortunately no one behind me).

The last car I owned had the auto stop/start thing, but only for eco mode.. my current one does it all the time and don't think there's a way to disable it..... if you slow down just right though, it won't turn off. It's impressively seamless though when it does start up, even though I also wonder about long term effects.

Wow, this stuff is a lot farther along than I thought. I am surprised by most of this.

Originally Posted by Strongside

My F150 starts and stops the engine at stop lights.

120k miles and never an issue.

That is pretty good for a Ford.

All kidding aside, on startups, the engine oil has to get picked up and circulated by the oil pump, thus the most critical wear time on an engine.

I will not be owning a car/truck that does this, but fortunately I put myself in a position not to have to.

[CapsLockKey]

Was in SF last month for a conference, and yes those things were all over the place. I found it hilarious when one of them stopped right over top of a huge crosswalk at a red light and 100s of conference goers couldn't safely cross the street because this driverless "smart" car couldn't comprehend a very visibly marked crosswalk. Meanwhile all the cars with actual drivers were where they were supposed to be.

[DaFace]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I can set my cruise control to automatically slow down within 1-3 car lengths of a vehicle in front of me... so if I have cruise set to 70, it'll brake as it approaches a slower vehicle and then automatically speed up when you change lanes.

You can also set it to automatically change lanes whenever you turn on the blinker, and also set it so it'll stay within the lanes (it also complains if you take your hands off the wheel).

There's been a time or two where it'll override steering a bit, so I don't use it much... and once where it slammed the brakes on the highway thinking I was about to hit something, but nothing was in my lane at all (and fortunately no one behind me).

The last car I owned had the auto stop/start thing, but only for eco mode.. my current one does it all the time and don't think there's a way to disable it..... if you slow down just right though, it won't turn off. It's impressively seamless though when it does start up, even though I also wonder about long term effects.

Adaptive cruise control + lane assistance = game changer if you're in heavy traffic

As for the engine shut off thing, that's becoming pretty common as a fuel efficiency improvement measure. They don't us a normal starter, so the typical logic on wear and tear doesn't really apply.

[CapsLockKey]

Originally Posted by DaFace

Adaptive cruise control + lane assistance = game changer if you're in heavy traffic



As for the engine shut off thing, that's becoming pretty common as a fuel efficiency improvement measure. They don't us a normal starter, so the typical logic on wear and tear doesn't really apply.

The auto shut off thing is a cheap trick by auto manufacturers to get around the new fuel efficiency standards. I personally find it annoying when driving in town so I bought an auto stop delete device specific to my car make off Amazon for $40 that turns that feature off when you start the car so you don't have to keep pushing the button. I haven't noticed any difference in my fuel usage.

[Fish]

According to entities like SAE and AAA, auto start/stop systems can save anywhere from 5-15% on fuel consumption, depending on the scenario. They use what is called an EFB battery (Enhanced Flooded Battery) that is considerably more reliable for providing instant power, and they provide about twice as many charging cycles as a conventional battery.

[DaFace]

Originally Posted by CapsLockKey

The auto shut off thing is a cheap trick by auto manufacturers to get around the new fuel efficiency standards. I personally find it annoying when driving in town so I bought an auto stop delete device specific to my car make off Amazon for $40 that turns that feature off when you start the car so you don't have to keep pushing the button. I haven't noticed any difference in my fuel usage.

Yours made you press a button to turn on again every time you stop? All of the ones I've seen automatically start the engine again when you press the accelerator.

[BEAVER]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I can set my cruise control to automatically slow down within 1-3 car lengths of a vehicle in front of me... so if I have cruise set to 70, it'll brake as it approaches a slower vehicle and then automatically speed up when you change lanes.

You can also set it to automatically change lanes whenever you turn on the blinker, and also set it so it'll stay within the lanes (it also complains if you take your hands off the wheel).

There's been a time or two where it'll override steering a bit, so I don't use it much... and once where it slammed the brakes on the highway thinking I was about to hit something, but nothing was in my lane at all (and fortunately no one behind me).

The last car I owned had the auto stop/start thing, but only for eco mode.. my current one does it all the time and don't think there's a way to disable it..... if you slow down just right though, it won't turn off. It's impressively seamless though when it does start up, even though I also wonder about long term effects.

My Pickup (2020 GMC) has all that stuff. Collision avoidance - adaptive whatever - lane assist - I turned it all off except the HUD alert for collision. I just can't deal with my steering wheel doing anything without my input.

The seat will also vibrate if you look to be running into something - I had turn that off because my girlfriend kept trying to run into things.

[Eleazar]

Originally Posted by DaFace

Yours made you press a button to turn on again every time you stop? All of the ones I've seen automatically start the engine again when you press the accelerator.

Not only this, but that shutoff at stop light feature has been around for 10 years or more, it isn’t anything new

[CapsLockKey]

Originally Posted by DaFace

Yours made you press a button to turn on again every time you stop? All of the ones I've seen automatically start the engine again when you press the accelerator.

No there is a button to disable to the auto stop function and most cars that have that should have a similar button. Usually has an icon with an A with a circular arrow around it. It just resets to on every time you start the car so you can't keep it off all the time. The device I put in basically makes it like you pressed the button when you turn on the car so you don't have to deal with it anymore.

[Chief Pagan]

Originally Posted by HemiEd

You make good points.

I was talking to my SIL on this visit and he said he had rented a rental car on their vacation that would over ride his steering some on the lane control when passing an eighteen wheeler. Is that the "adaptive cruise control" you referenced?

Also, another feature some of these new vehicles have that I have noticed on rental cars, the motor will shut off when at a stop light/sign. That can not be good for the engine long term but I bet it really helps in those big traffic jams in metropolitan areas.

My understanding, most of the damage is from starting a cold engine. If the engine is still hot and the oil is still spread around, it isn't an issue.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by CapsLockKey

No there is a button to disable to the auto stop function and most cars that have that should have a similar button. Usually has an icon with an A with a circular arrow around it. It just resets to on every time you start the car so you can't keep it off all the time. The device I put in basically makes it like you pressed the button when you turn on the car so you don't have to deal with it anymore.

Yeah, my last car had it... if I accidentally put it into eco mode (and that was the only way it ever went into eco mode), it would enable the auto start even after I switched back drive modes.

I could probably root kit my current vehicle once it's out of warranty to disable it, but it's barely even noticeable and easy to let off the brake a bit to get it to start again.

[Rain Man]

I had a rental car on a long road trip a while back, and it took me a bit to figure out the adaptive cruise control because I'd never seen it. I'd be on the highway cruising along and then I'd notice that I was going five miles under the speed limit for some reason. I eventually figured out that it was because there was a pokey person ahead of me, and so I would slow down to start a pokey parade with them. I had to switch lanes to get back up to speed.

But it made me wonder - if everyone had that same system, could you end up with a big pokey parade of dozens of cars if people didn't notice and pass? It seems like it.