Chiefs *****The Patrick Mahomes Thread***** - Page 1276

Dante84 · 09:40 AM

IT ****ING HAPPENED

OP UPDATE:

Because of all the interest in this thread, I've place all of the video content of Patrick Mahomes II's college career, and draft day goodness into a single post that can be found here. Enjoy!

DJ's left nut · 11-09-2018, 11:46 AM

New on @TheNFLWire: In the conclusion of "The Match Game," I look at how the Broncos had Patrick Mahomes' number for a while, and how one coverage concept can reverse the NFL's death of defensive innovation. https://t.co/JZsSOOdktI
— Doug Farrar (@NFL_DougFarrar) November 9, 2018

DJ's left nut · 11-09-2018, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

I really like that, with this insane offense, we spend at least as much time talking about how to improve the defense. I don't think - like a lot of those high-powered offenses - that anyone is simply saying "Not a problem! We'll just outscore everyone!"

The coaching staff, players, fans, media... everyone knows this team will have to be able to stop someone in order to win in the playoffs. Hell, just getting ONE more stop than the other team can do it.

And that's the thing.

If we lose, the defense will be blamed. And really, it will probably be their fault. But the bottom line is that the defense CAN play well enough to win. On it's good days, it's played well enough to beat anyone we'll face, anywhere.

Come playoff time, nobody just walks out there and blows the other team off the field with raw talent. Ain't gonna be a Browns game on the schedule. Instead they have to go execute. This isn't college - the other team is good and in the post-season you have to simply play well to win. And if this defense plays well, it's plenty capable of that.

There's a chance that in the post-season we have a game where the defense doesn't execute, the offense can't overcome it and we lose. And that will suck. But this defense has the pieces on it to go get those stops as well. If they go out there and play a good game - execute to their abilities - we can beat anyone.

Yes, going forward we want more talent on defense to give that D more margin for error (and the offense as well, for that matter), but the defense has the ability to win us a championship as presently constructed - they simply have to go out and play one of their good games, not the Patriots game. They don't even have to play perfect football (i.e. the Bengals game was damn near that), but if they can give us a B/B+ game, we can beat anyone.

Chiefspants · 11-09-2018, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And that's the thing.

If we lose, the defense will be blamed. And really, it will probably be their fault. But the bottom line is that the defense CAN play well enough to win. On it's good days, it's played well enough to beat anyone we'll face, anywhere.

Come playoff time, nobody just walks out there and blows the other team off the field with raw talent. Ain't gonna be a Browns game on the schedule. Instead they have to go execute. This isn't college - the other team is good and in the post-season you have to simply play well to win. And if this defense plays well, it's plenty capable of that.

There's a chance that in the post-season we have a game where the defense doesn't execute, the offense can't overcome it and we lose. And that will suck. But this defense has the pieces on it to go get those stops as well. If they go out there and play a good game - execute to their abilities - we can beat anyone.

Yes, going forward we want more talent on defense to give that D more margin for error (and the offense as well, for that matter), but the defense has the ability to win us a championship as presently constructed - they simply have to go out and play one of their good games, not the Patriots game. They don't even have to play perfect football (i.e. the Bengals game was damn near that), but if they can give us a B/B+ game, we can beat anyone.

I'd argue that this defense is a healthy Justin Houston and Eric Berry away from being legitimately competent.

If there's any question over the status of those two this offseason, Veach will have a tough choice to make - and it's important that he isn't sentimental about his decision making process. This offense is too generational to let a half-ply toilet paper defense risk our chances of getting a title.

DJ's left nut · 11-09-2018, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

I'd argue that this defense is a healthy Justin Houston and Eric Berry away from being legitimately competent.

If there's any question over the status of those two this offseason, Veach will have a tough choice to make - and it's important that he isn't sentimental about his decision making process. This offense is too generational to let a half-ply toilet paper defense risk our chances of getting a title.

And I think that's where I part ways with most.

I think it's legitimately competent now. No, it's not going to shut down great offenses but NOBODY does that. The Panthers got !@#$ing strafed last night and that's another team who people would consider as having a good defense.

In this league, good offense is going to beat good defense - full stop. It just is.

This personnel group, even without Houston and Berry, has gone out there and played several solid football games. That qualifies as 'competent', IMO. And I'm not even sure what 'good' is in this game anymore. I guess if you only get your shit pushed in ever 5 games instead of every 3, that qualifies as good. If you manage to keep premier offenses under 35, that's good. I mean it's just so damn hard to identify what 'good' even is in this league anymore.

Near as I can tell, the only team that comes close to qualifying is Baltimore - they did some damn nice work against the Saints (though it was the Saints on the road). And even Baltimore got wrecked against Carolina.

Any defense in the league is capable of having 35-40 points hung on them on any given week nowadays. And it's gonna happen to some team that gets called a 'good' defense in the posts-season.

Best22 · 11-09-2018, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

I'd argue that this defense is a healthy Justin Houston and Eric Berry away from being legitimately competent.

If there's any question over the status of those two this offseason, Veach will have a tough choice to make - and it's important that he isn't sentimental about his decision making process. This offense is too generational to let a half-ply toilet paper defense risk our chances of getting a title.

We have to pay Berry next year no matter what. We can’t just cut him to get out of paying him

DJ's left nut · 11-09-2018, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Best22

We have to pay Berry next year no matter what. We can’t just cut him to get out of paying him

We can shave off about $6.5 million of his salary by cutting him; his 2019 salary is only partially guaranteed. June 1 tag him and you've cleared some space (as well as ripped off the bandaid of the cut that will come AFTER next season either way).

Unless you have some reason to believe he will be over this heel thing and ready to play 16 games at full tilt (absent add'l injury), then you have to cut him. That salary can be put to better use than 17 weeks of 'will he or won't he' from Eric Berry and his sore foot.

Best22 · 11-09-2018, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

We can shave off about $6.5 million of his salary by cutting him; his 2019 salary is only partially guaranteed. June 1 tag him and you've cleared some space (as well as ripped off the bandaid of the cut that will come AFTER next season either way).

Unless you have some reason to believe he will be over this heel thing and ready to play 16 games at full tilt (absent add'l injury), then you have to cut him. That salary can be put to better use than 17 weeks of 'will he or won't he' from Eric Berry and his sore foot.

Didn’t realize that. I thought we still owed him $13 million after this season

ChiefsFanatic · 11-09-2018, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Can we state the obvious yet again and just express absolute wonder at this kid's arm talent?

Have we ever seen a more talented arm, with all the trick throws, and ridiculous on-the-run passes, power and touch and accuracy, and all that.

Have we ever seen this before?

In raw talent, it exceeds Favre, right?

I marvel at his beautiful mind. Talent doesn't always equal success. I think back to the old K-suck QB Bishop. He seemed like a really talented QB, and all reports were that he couldn't learn or grasp an NFL play book.

I love hearing the stories about Mahomes solving the BB defense over the course of one half, etc.

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk

Chiefspants · 11-09-2018, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And I think that's where I part ways with most.

I think it's legitimately competent now. No, it's not going to shut down great offenses but NOBODY does that. The Panthers got !@#$ing strafed last night and that's another team who people would consider as having a good defense.

In this league, good offense is going to beat good defense - full stop. It just is.

This personnel group, even without Houston and Berry, has gone out there and played several solid football games. That qualifies as 'competent', IMO. And I'm not even sure what 'good' is in this game anymore. I guess if you only get your shit pushed in ever 5 games instead of every 3, that qualifies as good. If you manage to keep premier offenses under 35, that's good. I mean it's just so damn hard to identify what 'good' even is in this league anymore.

Near as I can tell, the only team that comes close to qualifying is Baltimore - they did some damn nice work against the Saints (though it was the Saints on the road). And even Baltimore got wrecked against Carolina.

Any defense in the league is capable of having 35-40 points hung on them on any given week nowadays. And it's gonna happen to some team that gets called a 'good' defense in the posts-season.

I'm close, absolutely close to being there - but I need a litmus test against a great offense before I'm sold.

Don't get me wrong - we don't have to shut out the Rams.

But I want to see us at least trip them up on enough drives to be competent.

Weirdly, in today's NFL, holding them between 30-35 points would be plenty competent for me.

RunKC · 11-09-2018, 02:09 PM

Chiefs are 19th in scoring defense. If Conley doesn’t fumble in Pittsburgh they are 17th.

They are an average defense right now.

Chiefspants · 11-09-2018, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

Chiefs are 19th in scoring defense. If Conley doesn’t fumble in Pittsburgh they are 17th.

They are an average defense right now.

Again, I'm not there. That was the diagnosis about the 2003 defense 9 games in. There are encouraging signs, yes, but I want to see us against another team worth its salt before making a judgment about their overall ability.

TwistedChief · 11-09-2018, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

Chiefs are 19th in scoring defense. If Conley doesn’t fumble in Pittsburgh they are 17th.

They are an average defense right now.

Start a new thread. Don’t sully the Mahomes legacy with fantasies of an average defense.

Naptown Chief · 11-09-2018, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

I'm close, absolutely close to being there - but I need a litmus test against a great offense before I'm sold.

Don't get me wrong - we don't have to shut out the Rams.

But I want to see us at least trip them up on enough drives to be competent.

Weirdly, in today's NFL, holding them between 30-35 points would be plenty competent for me.

9/9 Chargers score 28 in LA (7-2)
9/16 Steelers score 37 in PIT (6-2-1)
9/23 49ers score 27 in KC
10/1 Broncos score 23 in DEN
10/7 Jags score 14 in KC
10/14 Pats hang 43 in NE (7-2)
10/21 Bengals score 10 in KC
10/28 Broncos score 23 in KC
11/14 Browns score 21 in CLE

Twice this year we've allowed more than 30-35 and both times were on the road. We won once and you could argue, if Pat had not overthrown 2 passes on the first two drives, we may have won the second. I am in no way saying that this defense is great, or even good for that matter, but we have already faced all of the explosive offenses in the AFC and came away 8-1. With reinforcements (hopefully) coming soon, I don't see why we don't make an SB run. If the playoffs go through KC I believe we're golden.

Naptown Chief · 11-09-2018, 02:40 PM

Patrick Mahomes + Home Field Advantage= get ****ed AFC (I'm looking at you Shitsburgh and Raperiots)

Chiefspants · 11-09-2018, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwwataz

9/9 Chargers score 28 in LA (7-2)
9/16 Steelers score 37 in PIT (6-2-1)
9/23 49ers score 27 in KC
10/1 Broncos score 23 in DEN
10/7 Jags score 14 in KC
10/14 Pats hang 43 in NE (7-2)
10/21 Bengals score 10 in KC
10/28 Broncos score 23 in KC
11/14 Browns score 21 in CLE

Twice this year we've allowed more than 30-35 and both times were on the road. We won once and you could argue, if Pat had not overthrown 2 passes on the first two drives, we may have won the second. I am in no way saying that this defense is great, or even good for that matter, but we have already faced all of the explosive offenses in the AFC and came away 8-1. With reinforcements (hopefully) coming soon, I don't see why we don't make an SB run. If the playoffs go through KC I believe we're golden.

I agree with almost all of this. I won't sully the Mahomes thread any more. But in terms of the elite offenses listed, we're what, 2-1 against them? It's encouraging - but is it fair that I want to see if this defense has truly gelled by waiting until we're against another great team?

But I will say, if the road to the Super Bowl is through KC - I'd feel much better about our chances even if our defense looks like refried ass. It reminds me of the Royals in 2015. Our starting pitching likely could not have held up against the Stros or the Jays without homefield, and the Chiefs have a similar advantage if they could stay at home through the playoffs.

If Berry and Houston arrive as legitimate reinforcements, the window is wide open.

04-27-2017, 07:19 PM
Dante84 Tossed Salad & Scrambled Eggs Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: ATX & OPKS Casino cash: $-18004 VARSITY	***The Patrick Mahomes Thread* IT **ING HAPPENED OP UPDATE: Because of all the interest in this thread, I've place all of the video content of Patrick Mahomes II's college career, and draft day goodness into a single post that can be found here. Enjoy! Last edited by Dante84; 05-17-2017 at 09:40 AM..
Posts: 20,071

11-09-2018, 11:46 AM	#19126
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $1189099	New on @TheNFLWire: In the conclusion of "The Match Game," I look at how the Broncos had Patrick Mahomes' number for a while, and how one coverage concept can reverse the NFL's death of defensive innovation. https://t.co/JZsSOOdktI — Doug Farrar (@NFL_DougFarrar) November 9, 2018 __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
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11-09-2018, 02:09 PM	#19135
RunKC Andy Reid Supporter Join Date: Apr 2012 Casino cash: $419611	Chiefs are 19th in scoring defense. If Conley doesn’t fumble in Pittsburgh they are 17th. They are an average defense right now. __________________ Mike Greenberg@Espngreeny I can’t fathom what it must be like to be a fan of the #Chiefs. Adopt a Chief: Jared Wiley
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11-09-2018, 02:40 PM	#19139
Naptown Chief Banned Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Annapolis, MD Casino cash: $10002400	Patrick Mahomes + Home Field Advantage= get ****ed AFC (I'm looking at you Shitsburgh and Raperiots)
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