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Old 04-28-2023, 06:41 PM  
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Last edited by Dante84; 05-01-2023 at 11:09 PM..
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Old 11-29-2023, 02:51 PM   #1861
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Exactly, execution.

I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but even Andy himself has essentially said that this is the issue.
Mahomes was coming off guys. He's been REALLY struggling with that all season.

He'd lock in on Kelce and just not get to the 2nd read in time. Or he'd lock in on Watson. He just hasn't been playing on time most of the season.

On Sunday he did. R1, R2, R3 - scramble. He was running the offense at a much higher level than he has most of the year. It was just much more disciplined and much closer to the level he played at last season.
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Old 11-29-2023, 02:51 PM   #1862
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Old 11-29-2023, 02:52 PM   #1863
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Who are the biggest culprits of drops and botched routes and how many targets did they get? They didnt make mistakes because we didn't give them opportunities to.

I am not ignoring the 2 red zone drops vs philly. You say it's not about drops and yet keep driving this narrative to just clean up a few mistakes and we're golden. No. We were stuck against philly the second half. We missed opportunities in the red zone but also had a ton missed given how our defense gifted our offense field position and frequent possessions all night.

It isn't just about drops and execution. We found a way to get the ball more to our plaumakers who aren't part of the execution problem in ways we couldn't in prior weeks even when we forced ourself to. Kelce has been blanketed in many games and it's not because he can't execute. Mahomes has been stuck often and it isn't because of this overblown narrative that he's just refuses to check down. Rashee was often well covered last week but this week found opportunities against a good defense.
Turnovers dipshit. Turnovers.

You are literally too stupid to argue with.
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Old 11-29-2023, 02:52 PM   #1864
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Mahomes was coming off guys. He's been REALLY struggling with that all season.

He'd lock in on Kelce and just not get to the 2nd read in time. Or he'd lock in on Watson. He just hasn't been playing on time most of the season.

On Sunday he did. R1, R2, R3 - scramble. He was running the offense at a much higher level than he has most of the year. It was just much more disciplined and much closer to the level he played at last season.
So jsut to be clear, this would fall under execution, right?
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Old 11-29-2023, 02:53 PM   #1865
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It was different. We threw more to Pacheco out of the backfield and did more horizontal shallow crossers than we have in past games.
Those wheel routes worked great before. Wonder why they got away from them? Seems like Pacheco with a full head of steam built up when he gets the ball would be a dangerous weapon. Will defenders stick their head in there to stop him?
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Old 11-29-2023, 02:57 PM   #1866
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Those wheel routes worked great before. Wonder why they got away from them? Seems like Pacheco with a full head of steam built up when he gets the ball would be a dangerous weapon. Will defenders stick their head in there to stop him?
They run them a dozen times every game. Mahomes just wasn't looking to go there.

Do you guys look at the play besides the ball?
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Old 11-29-2023, 02:58 PM   #1867
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So jsut to be clear, this would fall under execution, right?
Absolutely - I'm not arguing; I'm expounding.

Another thought regarding the WRBC nonsense - our WRs are really 'niche' guys. They have very specific skill-sets and it seems the team uses them in those specific roles.

Those rotations may somewhat telegraph what it is we're doing - could be part of the reason why seemingly simple defenses (Denver being the most obvious example) have given us fits. They know that when the see "WR Package 4" that they're gonna get a limited set of routes and likely what they'll be. If it's WRP2, that's Y set of routes, etc...

That's pure conjecture, but given that one of Andy's biggest strengths are tendency breakers, to have routes specific to packages and then call those packages to run those routes would really blunt that ability to break tendencies, no?

Just a theory. Perhaps it's born of necessity but it didn't seem like we were nearly as bad about that last year. Maybe we were and the league caught up a bit?

But if Rice can get outside and stay outside most of the time, that's a fixed point. With Kelce and Rice as fixed points for the others to orbit around, that's going to create more ability to be varied despite the personnel grouping. MVS is presumptively another one who's likely to be out there 60+% of the time. But if Toney, Hardman or {sigh} Moore can get to where they can be put out there for 60-70% of the snaps - or shit, Watson for that matter - you really could get back to the tendency breakers and concepts that may be simpler but at least aren't as telegraphed?
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Old 11-29-2023, 02:59 PM   #1868
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They run them a dozen times every game. Mahomes just wasn't looking to go there.

Do you guys look at the play besides the ball?
Right.

He'd just stay locked on his first and occasionally second read. He never really got underneath. The underneath routes were thrown when they were really early in the progression or they weren't thrown at all.
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Old 11-29-2023, 02:59 PM   #1869
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Absolutely - I'm not arguing; I'm expounding.

Another thought regarding the WRBC nonsense - our WRs are really 'niche' guys. They have very specific skill-sets and it seems the team uses them in those specific roles.

Those rotations may somewhat telegraph what it is we're doing - could be part of the reason why seemingly simple defenses (Denver being the most obvious example) have given us fits. They know that when the see "WR Package 4" that they're gonna get a limited set of routes and likely what they'll be. If it's WRP2, that's Y set of routes, etc...

That's pure conjecture, but given that one of Andy's biggest strengths are tendency breakers, to have routes specific to packages and then call those packages to run those routes would really blunt that ability to break tendencies, no?

Just a theory. Perhaps it's born of necessity but it didn't seem like we were nearly as bad about that last year. Maybe we were and the league caught up a bit?

But if Rice can get outside and stay outside most of the time, that's a fixed point. With Kelce and Rice as fixed points for the others to orbit around, that's going to create more ability to be varied despite the personnel grouping. MVS is presumptively another one who's likely to be out there 60+% of the time. But if Toney, Hardman or {sigh} Moore can get to where they can be put out there for 60-70% of the snaps - or shit, Watson for that matter - you really could get back to the tendency breakers and concepts that may be simpler but at least aren't as telegraphed?
Oh I know you weren't arguing, and I knew what your answer would be. That was for zilla, who seems to think I'm only talking about drops when I clearly said execution.
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Old 11-29-2023, 03:00 PM   #1870
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Mahomes was coming off guys. He's been REALLY struggling with that all season.

He'd lock in on Kelce and just not get to the 2nd read in time. Or he'd lock in on Watson. He just hasn't been playing on time most of the season.

On Sunday he did. R1, R2, R3 - scramble. He was running the offense at a much higher level than he has most of the year. It was just much more disciplined and much closer to the level he played at last season.
It was almost like Andy was force feeding a few of these as the normal 2nd and 3rd reads as the primary option. It seemed like it kind of hit the reset button for Mahomes and we got back in rhythm...
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Old 11-29-2023, 03:04 PM   #1871
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Those wheel routes worked great before. Wonder why they got away from them? Seems like Pacheco with a full head of steam built up when he gets the ball would be a dangerous weapon. Will defenders stick their head in there to stop him?
You mean flat routes with Pacheco? A wheel route would be Pacheco going to the flat like a typical route and then turning it up the field for a 20 yard pass. I can definitely see us adding those wrinkles in as well.
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Old 11-29-2023, 03:08 PM   #1872
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Turnovers dipshit. Turnovers.

You are literally too stupid to argue with.
Are you seriously this incapable of carrying a normal conversation where you throw insults like a 2 year old? And I'm the one incapable of conversation....

youre pointing to 2 key mistakes. 1 in the second half in an otherwise very challenging and stuck offense that couldn't move despite frequent possessions and field position. You claim it's not about drops as if you're not trying to have us look away from our overall struggles over multiple games to move offensively off script because we had a few opportunities sprinkled in we didn't hit on.
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Old 11-29-2023, 03:14 PM   #1873
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Are you seriously this incapable of carrying a normal conversation where you throw insults like a 2 year old? And I'm the one incapable of conversation....

youre pointing to 2 key mistakes. 1 in the second half in an otherwise very challenging and stuck offense that couldn't move despite frequent possessions and field position. You claim it's not about drops as if you're not trying to have us look away from our overall struggles over multiple games to move offensively off script because we had a few opportunities sprinkled in we didn't hit on.
Dude, what do you expect when you say rz "drops" when I've made it very clear that I'm talking about rz turnovers?

And stop pretending that turnovers were just an issue in that game. They've been an issue all ****ing season, and in particular in each of our losses.

But those 2 "'mistakes" were at least 6 points off the board, possibly 14. Those mistakes were the biggest mistakes of the game. Why are you downplaying them?
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Old 11-29-2023, 03:21 PM   #1874
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Mahomes was coming off guys. He's been REALLY struggling with that all season.

He'd lock in on Kelce and just not get to the 2nd read in time. Or he'd lock in on Watson. He just hasn't been playing on time most of the season.

On Sunday he did. R1, R2, R3 - scramble. He was running the offense at a much higher level than he has most of the year. It was just much more disciplined and much closer to the level he played at last season.
We locked on to the same playmakers all day. It wasn't just about going through his progressions and spreading targets. It's because the same playmakers who have been blanketed for several weeks were suddenly finding opportunities. Mvs/skyy/Watson were complete afterthoughts on the offense.

The same Kelce who was blanketed with triple coverage for weeks. The same rice who really wasn't popping open vs philly. It's not like we were hitting Pacheco on all checkdowns. We were intentionally getting the ball to these guys and creating space for him. That designed screen to rashee was chefs kiss. We still locked on to the same guys but we made it work this time

So I disagree. I think our offense creared opportunities to get the ball to our best guys and found ways to mask our worst. Now, does that solve everything? I think we've unlocked something. But you'd have to think more defenses will subscribe to what philly did which is to sell out on our plaumakers and funnel everything to our bottom guys.
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Old 11-29-2023, 03:22 PM   #1875
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I like how you ask a question, you get answers, and you shut them all down.

Why ask the question if you have all the answers?

You're completely full of shit.
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