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Old 04-29-2022, 06:44 PM  
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Old 11-14-2022, 10:33 AM   #1861
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I see a lot of overreaction to what I perceive as a lesser than anticipated start to a rookie WRs career in a complicated system.

I’d rather have swung for the fences for Pickens, too…but Pickens pff grade for receiving is 63.6 and Skyys is 63.3 and their overall grades are almost identical, too…so both are having rookie struggles.

That said, there have been 4-5 plays that are pretty bad.
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Old 11-14-2022, 10:34 AM   #1862
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Top 60 picks shouldn't need a "redshirt" year. It's to valuable to lose a year of cheap pay on a draft pick.

Anyone think that's way off?
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Old 11-14-2022, 10:35 AM   #1863
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Toney slotting right in and contributing in the space of two weeks makes the defense of Moore a lot more difficult. And you wonder if the Toney deal would have ever happened if Moore had shown flashes. A second and a third are a lot to spend on the lower half of our WR depth chart in just six months, and the guy they bring around also is a return guy?
The only WR’s on contract next year are MVS, Skyy Moore and Justyn Ross. Trading what is a 4th and 7th rd value pick for Toney and getting 2.5 cheap years+ the 5th year option is a no brainer.

It doesn’t matter if Skyy Moore looks like Jerry Rice. You still trade for Toney
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Old 11-14-2022, 10:37 AM   #1864
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Top 60 picks shouldn't need a "redshirt" year. It's to valuable to lose a year of cheap pay on a draft pick.

Anyone think that's way off?
Depends on the player.

Like you tip-toed around a little, I'm okay with it at high value positions and ESPECIALLY for high ceiling players.

But a red-shirt year on a 2nd rounder who sure appears to have a limited ceiling is no bueno.

Maybe Staylor is right and Moore's actually an X receiver who simply hasn't busted out yet. Because if Moore comes out next year and is running 80+% of the snaps out of the X and putting up numbers in various areas of the field - I'm wrong. I lose that round. Because that's EXACTLY the kind of higher ceiling player I'm okay with a red-shirt on; especially at a high-value position like WR.

But I simply don't see him as that guy. He's a Y long-term, IMO. And I don't see the value there.
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Old 11-14-2022, 10:40 AM   #1865
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The only WR’s on contract next year are MVS, Skyy Moore and Justyn Ross. Trading what is a 4th and 7th rd value pick for Toney and getting 2.5 cheap years+ the 5th year option is a no brainer.

It doesn’t matter if Skyy Moore looks like Jerry Rice. You still trade for Toney
Think about it practically - do you make the phonecall?

Yes, if the Giants call Veach and that offer is on the table - you still pull the trigger for all the reasons you cited. But Toney's been available since April and we didn't make the move then. And all those same factors existed. And yet the deal wasn't made.

I don't think it's a coincidence at all that suddenly the trade got made after Moore gacked a couple punts (and Toney immediately assumed PR duties) and made as inexcusable a mistake as one could make, leading directly to an INT.

I absolutely think that from a practical standpoint, Moores struggles played a significant role in the trade eventually being executed.
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Old 11-14-2022, 10:41 AM   #1866
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Top 60 picks shouldn't need a "redshirt" year. It's to valuable to lose a year of cheap pay on a draft pick.

Anyone think that's way off?
They aren’t redshirting him.

Since week 4 he’s got 28%, 35%, 30%, 22%, 26% and yesterday 25% of the snaps.

That’s not redshirting
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Old 11-14-2022, 10:43 AM   #1867
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Depends on the player.

Like you tip-toed around a little, I'm okay with it at high value positions and ESPECIALLY for high ceiling players.

But a red-shirt year on a 2nd rounder who sure appears to have a limited ceiling is no bueno.

Maybe Staylor is right and Moore's actually an X receiver who simply hasn't busted out yet. Because if Moore comes out next year and is running 80+% of the snaps out of the X and putting up numbers in various areas of the field - I'm wrong. I lose that round. Because that's EXACTLY the kind of higher ceiling player I'm okay with a red-shirt on; especially at a high-value position like WR.

But I simply don't see him as that guy. He's a Y long-term, IMO. And I don't see the value there.
Yeah, I just don't see the physical attributes there needed for that, but it wouldn't be the first time that happened.

I could be convinced just because he came from such a small school program, seems to be a smart kid etc.

But man, you just need a certain baseline of physical abilities to accomplish that and with having those I'd think he'd have flashed a little more now.
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Old 11-14-2022, 10:44 AM   #1868
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They aren’t redshirting him.

Since week 4 he’s got 28%, 35%, 30%, 22%, 26% and yesterday 25% of the snaps.

That’s not redshirting
I'm no mathematician but, those numbers don't seem to be going up any.
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Old 11-14-2022, 10:46 AM   #1869
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They aren’t redshirting him.

Since week 4 he’s got 28%, 35%, 30%, 22%, 26% and yesterday 25% of the snaps.

That’s not redshirting
I'm confused.

Is his lack of production due to a lack of opportunity or not?
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Old 11-14-2022, 10:46 AM   #1870
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Old 11-14-2022, 10:48 AM   #1871
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Think about it practically - do you make the phonecall?

Yes, if the Giants call Veach and that offer is on the table - you still pull the trigger for all the reasons you cited. But Toney's been available since April and we didn't make the move then. And all those same factors existed. And yet the deal wasn't made.

I don't think it's a coincidence at all that suddenly the trade got made after Moore gacked a couple punts (and Toney immediately assumed PR duties) and made as inexcusable a mistake as one could make, leading directly to an INT.

I absolutely think that from a practical standpoint, Moores struggles played a significant role in the trade eventually being executed.
This offense was lacking a WR play maker as well.

I don't blame Moore for the PR issue, he never was one before and never made sense to me and still doesn't why Hardman isn't our full time PR. He is the 3rd WR on the team and the gadget guy. I put that shit on Toub and his lack luster ST's this year.
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Old 11-14-2022, 10:51 AM   #1872
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Think about it practically - do you make the phonecall?

Yes, if the Giants call Veach and that offer is on the table - you still pull the trigger for all the reasons you cited. But Toney's been available since April and we didn't make the move then. And all those same factors existed. And yet the deal wasn't made.

I don't think it's a coincidence at all that suddenly the trade got made after Moore gacked a couple punts (and Toney immediately assumed PR duties) and made as inexcusable a mistake as one could make, leading directly to an INT.

I absolutely think that from a practical standpoint, Moores struggles played a significant role in the trade eventually being executed.
I think Moore’s adjustment had a factor but they confirmed that Veach was poking around about Toney in the off-season.

Again I don’t care if Skyy Moore looks like Jerry Rice. Toney is a perfect fit for this system, a top 20 player from his draft class, has 2.5 years of rookie salary + a 5th year option and you can get him for a 4th and 7th?!

You pull the trigger on that every time. Regardless.

Comp picks make these trades a rd later than they are. There’s roughly 15 comp picks in each rd starting in rd 3 so we basically traded a 4th and 7th for Toney.

It’s the exact kind of trade you make no matter who is on your roster
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Old 11-14-2022, 10:53 AM   #1873
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I think Moore’s adjustment had a factor but they confirmed that Veach was poking around about Toney in the off-season.

Again I don’t care if Skyy Moore looks like Jerry Rice. Toney is a perfect fit for this system, a top 20 player from his draft class, has 2.5 years of rookie salary + a 5th year option and you can get him for a 4th and 7th?!

You pull the trigger on that every time. Regardless.

Comp picks make these trades a rd later than they are. There’s roughly 15 comp picks in each rd starting in rd 3 so we basically traded a 4th and 7th for Toney.

It’s the exact kind of trade you make no matter who is on your roster
And again - I don't disagree.

Yet we didn't, when Toney was widely known to be available last spring.

But we DID shortly after Moore effectively took himself out of the 49ers game with a terrible route.

If you're one who doesn't believe in coincidences, you have plenty of support here...
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Old 11-14-2022, 10:56 AM   #1874
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Some of his struggles could be confidence as well. You see that with Christian Watson who is on a team with zero WR's and has 14 total receptions but broke out yesterday with 3 TD's. You could just see his confidence growing with each play.
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Old 11-14-2022, 11:00 AM   #1875
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I’d rather have swung for the fences for Pickens, too…but Pickens pff grade for receiving is 63.6 and Skyys is 63.3 and their overall grades are almost identical, too…so both are having rookie struggles.

.
Seriously? Who cares. Why would anyone care about that?

If you can't put on the game and see the difference in the plays these guys are making then you have no business in this conversation.

Why even bring such a silly stat up? One guy can't get any targets, the other guy pushed Chase Claypool off the roster....gimmie a break with that.
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