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View Poll Results: What Lever You Flippin?? | |||
Yes |
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16 | 14.16% |
No |
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16 | 14.16% |
I don't live in Jackson County, but would vote Yes |
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59 | 52.21% |
I don't live in Jackson County, but would vote No |
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22 | 19.47% |
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll |
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Thread Tools | Display Modes |
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#1801 |
MVP
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Studio City, CA
Casino cash: $2918742
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Your anger IS hilarious but for the sake of others who may want to know what is actually going on and not just scream venom like a petulant child, here they are....
THIS THIS and THIS will tell you all you need to know. It's not some random podcast it's 810 talking about this issue in detail. Don't let the fact that I acquiesced into providing an effort post distract you from the drinking of antifreeze, however. You should absolutely still do that. |
Posts: 13,323
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#1802 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Davis, CA
Casino cash: $3451711
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Quote:
"Funding the $283 million racing complex was $167 million in public funds comprised of STAR Bonds supported by annual sales taxes, utility company contributions and matching funds from the local road improvements budget plus $116 million in private equity from ISC." https://www.iedconline.org/clientupl..._09_Summer.pdf The State of Kansas did a report on their STAR Bond projects and noted that their Department of Commerce has two tourism goals for their projects, that at least 30% of users come from over 100 miles away and that at least 20% come from outside Kansas. https://www.kslegislature.org/li_202...0220118_01.pdf In Figure 2 of the report, you can see that the Speedway has been a success in part because it meets these two goals. The other sports projects with STAR Bonds don't come close to bringing in at least 30% of users from over 100 miles away. I doubt that Arrowhead ever has 20,000 fans from that far away, but I could be wrong. The Scoop and Score proposal is talking about fully funding a NFL stadium in a region that already has one and the proposal basically amounts to sentencing Kansans in the 2050s and beyond to be stuck with a stadium that has lost its luster and that never came close to bringng in enough revenue to justify its costs or the risks that investors took. Of course, I doubt that proposal will go forward without serious modification because it's so preposterous. The Chiefs weren't even asking for as much charity as the folks behind this proposal are offering. Kansans aren't that reckless, or at least not the part of Kansas represented by the majority will. Last edited by DanT; 06-06-2024 at 04:44 PM.. |
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Posts: 4,302
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#1803 | |
MVP
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Studio City, CA
Casino cash: $2918742
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I am under the impression it's exactly the same as the new stadium, part STAR bonds, part private equity.
Like that Tarwater guy said the Chiefs have to come up with "hundreds of millions". Anyway, from that site so take it with a grain of salt: Quote:
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#1804 |
Why so serious?
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Chicago
Casino cash: $1130415
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So, I come at this as someone who has traded bonds for the last two decades of my life at Goldman Sachs and now at a hedge fund, and while I’ve never heard of these bonds (nothing wrong with that btw), I did some cursory digging.
The fact that this is marketed as this risk-free-too-good-to-be-true financing mechanism should raise some major red flags. STAR bonds have in aggregate never been issued in the size required to fund these stadiums, so this is seriously untested from a market’s perspective. And this notion that the risk is on the bondholders so everything is great?! These bondholders aren’t stupid. They understand the risk and the limited buyer base. The interest rate they’ll require will be prohibitive and that will increase the risk the project fails. But it doesn’t matter, right? Because the bondholders only have recourse to the sales tax generated in the economic zone and would not have any claim on the state/municipality? Well, yes, in theory. But theory is not practice and one article cites a wink and a nod relationship between investors in these bonds and the state that they’d step in in the event of a default. You can imagine that a high profile project like this failing would have reputational impact for the state of Kansas more broadly (see:contagion) and there’s a reasonable chance they would bail them out if push came to shove. Think the government and the implicitly guaranteed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Essentially, the Chiefs and Royals would be benefiting from the backstop of the state of Kansas. I also wonder if some of these districts aren’t sized up a little larger than they would otherwise be which would carve out some sales tax that would otherwise go to the state. Wouldn’t shock me. I’m a bit skeptical of Kansas politicians peddling snake oil without fully understanding the economics. |
Posts: 12,590
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#1805 | ||
Ain't no relax!
Join Date: Sep 2005
Casino cash: $998919
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Quote:
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Posts: 48,143
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#1806 |
MVP
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Studio City, CA
Casino cash: $2918742
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Maybe they meant the Chiefs would buy a bunch of bonds.
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#1807 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Davis, CA
Casino cash: $3451711
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Quote:
So, I was wrong to say that the proposal was going to rely on STAR Bonds to fund the entire project. Thanks for the additional information. Still, I would think just using rough estimates about potential revenues from sales tax that it's a very risky bet for investors, unless the total issue of Bonds is somewhere around $1 Billion or less. Like TwistedChief mentioned in his recent post, investors will expect a big interest rate and there might even be some backstopping, the sort of thing that happened when the government stepped in to bail out some previous bad bets made in the finance industry. One thing that could also happen is that the government sets asides funds to pay off the bond obligation in case the revenues from taxes aren't sufficient. That's the sort of thing that investors might ask for in order to agree to a lower interest rate. Apparently, the Unified Government of Kansas City, Kansas does this for several STAR bond projects, as they discuss this on page 88 of this report on their Long-Term Financial Forecast 2022-2026, https://www.wycokck.org/files/assets...11-19-2020.pdf Fortunately, they've not yet had to use those set aside funds to pay off investors, but those kinds of deals involving trading risks between investors and the government could spell impacts for "average Kansans". |
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Posts: 4,302
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#1808 | |
Inmem 2.0
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: My house
Casino cash: $1377558
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Posts: 75,863
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#1809 | |
Why so serious?
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Chicago
Casino cash: $1130415
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Posts: 12,590
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#1810 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Davis, CA
Casino cash: $3451711
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Quote:
In the 2023 STAR Bonds Annual Report, they show that those bonds are still being paid off, so they must have defined the district where sales and use taxes come from to be bigger than just the water park itself. https://www.kansascommerce.gov/wp-co...port-FINAL.pdf |
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#1811 | |
Inmem 2.0
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: My house
Casino cash: $1377558
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Posts: 75,863
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#1812 | |
MVP
Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $4824930
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Quote:
That does not even make any sense to court the team that wants to stay in their current venue and has a dozen dates a year compared to the one that says it wants a new place and has at least 81 dates. This nonsense is so dead letter, if they meant business they would court the Royals and try to find a spot near State Line or a part of downtown KCK. And, Carol Marinovich was very important part of the development that did happen. KCK does not have the unity and leadership to get things done like they did when Marinovich was a key figure.
__________________
Where Ignorance is Bliss, 'Tis Folly to be Wise. __ |
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#1813 |
MVP
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Studio City, CA
Casino cash: $2918742
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Posts: 13,323
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Rainbarrel |
This message has been deleted by Rainbarrel.
Reason: Wentz will kick Bear ass in preseason game 3
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#1814 |
In Search of a Life
Join Date: Dec 2005
Casino cash: $777391
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Posts: 31,072
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#1815 |
Ultrabanned
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: North da River
Casino cash: $709356
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Posts: 41,435
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