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Old 01-24-2019, 04:33 PM  
TLO TLO is offline
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Chiefs hire Steve Spagnuolo as new defensive coordinator
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Old 01-31-2019, 09:28 PM   #1741
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The big roll of the dice is with health too. Neither Ford nor Houston are exactly safe bets to stay on the field for 16 games.

I just wonder if $15M in cap space for one of those two wouldn’t be better used on a couple of new defensive starters at the 2nd or 3rd level.
Odds say that if they both made it through 2018, they won't make it through 2019. One if not both will likely end up back on the bench, and always at the worst time.
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Old 01-31-2019, 09:28 PM   #1742
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Really? Given the injury history, low ceiling, single dimension of play and slow development, I'd take a mid to low 2 in heartbeat.
Low ceiling?
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Old 01-31-2019, 09:32 PM   #1743
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I'd take a 2nd for Ford in a heartbeat.

Best pass rusher on the team, blah blah blah.

He played in 14 games in 2016, notched 10 sacks, everybody thought he'd turned the corner...and then he missed 10 games in 2017 due to injury.

He had a great year this year but that's all it was - ONE YEAR. If you can get a 2nd for him, let him go. Don't pay him $15M so that he can get hurt again and sit on the bench all year. If they really want him back that bad, just sign him and move the cap hit out.
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Old 01-31-2019, 09:38 PM   #1744
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Low ceiling?
If you want to call 13 sacks and 7 FF's all-world, be my guest. But know this; that's all were getting. That's it. It doesn't get any better. In fact, if he plays for the Chiefs in 2019, I believe he won't be able to match that production much less exceed it.

If Ford were an elite pass rusher I could see keeping him around. But he's no DT, and I believe we can do better.
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Old 01-31-2019, 09:40 PM   #1745
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I'd take a 2nd for Ford in a heartbeat.

Best pass rusher on the team, blah blah blah.

He played in 14 games in 2016, notched 10 sacks, everybody thought he'd turned the corner...and then he missed 10 games in 2017 due to injury.

He had a great year this year but that's all it was - ONE YEAR. If you can get a 2nd for him, let him go. Don't pay him $15M so that he can get hurt again and sit on the bench all year. If they really want him back that bad, just sign him and move the cap hit out.
No shit. A player of his "caliber" pushing 30? I'll take that 2 yesterday.
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Old 01-31-2019, 09:42 PM   #1746
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No shit. A player of his "caliber" pushing 30? I'll take that 2 yesterday.
He's literally missed HALF of his career in terms of games played vs. games injured.
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Old 01-31-2019, 09:46 PM   #1747
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He's literally missed HALF of his career in terms of games played vs. games injured.
Yesterday.
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Old 01-31-2019, 09:47 PM   #1748
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How many times did he line up offsides this year, then does it at the worst time in the biggest game for the chiefs in a long time and then still almost lines up offsides in the ****ing pro bowl. The guy is an idiot. Get whatever you can for him do not pay him 15 million. You can say I'm being emotional or whatever but I'd rather have Collins and some vet then Ford for 15 million
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Old 01-31-2019, 09:51 PM   #1749
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I'm trying to find all the stats.

From what I can tell, he's good for like two games EVERY season since his freshman year of college.

I don't have his complete Auburn stats but it looks like he missed 9 or 10 games in 2011 because of his back, 2 more in 2012 because of an abdominal strain, and 2 in 2013 because of a knee injury.

He played in every game for the Chiefs in 2014 as a backup. In 2015, he hurt his back again, missed 2 games and shortly after coming back, hurt his knee, ending his season. It looks like he missed a game in 2016 but I can't figure out for what.

Last year he hurt his back for a 3rd time, missed 2 games, came back, and then went on injured reserve in December (basically the same pattern as 2015).

There's NO WAY I want this guy back with a big cap number after looking at this. If they can't be sure to get a good pick, let him walk. He's a ticking time bomb and with Houston and Berry already having issues, they can't afford this.
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Old 01-31-2019, 10:12 PM   #1750
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How many times did he line up offsides this year, then does it at the worst time in the biggest game for the chiefs in a long time and then still almost lines up offsides in the ****ing pro bowl. The guy is an idiot. Get whatever you can for him do not pay him 15 million. You can say I'm being emotional or whatever but I'd rather have Collins and some vet then Ford for 15 million
Which brings up an interesting way to look at this...

Ford’s tag is estimated to be around $16M. You tag him, that’s $16M gone for a guy who could be a really good pass rusher for us again, but comes with great injury risk and may not fit in with this new defense as well.

If you can trade him, for even just a 2nd round pick, you’ve got an extra 2nd + $16M in space that could very possibly pay for a new starter at safety and someone else in the front 7. Or wherever else you want to pick up a starter at.

So, if I say that you can have either Dee Ford for one season or a 2nd round pick + Landon Collins + Player X (FA mid level starter), what would you do?

Now they could tag Ford and get rid of Houston, leaving about an extra $12M in cap space. But there won’t be a draft pick coming back our way.
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Old 01-31-2019, 10:14 PM   #1751
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I'd take a 2nd for Ford in a heartbeat.

Best pass rusher on the team, blah blah blah.

He played in 14 games in 2016, notched 10 sacks, everybody thought he'd turned the corner...and then he missed 10 games in 2017 due to injury.

He had a great year this year but that's all it was - ONE YEAR. If you can get a 2nd for him, let him go. Don't pay him $15M so that he can get hurt again and sit on the bench all year. If they really want him back that bad, just sign him and move the cap hit out.
I would too man, but I don’t think Andy wants to let him leave next year only to be replaced by Speaks (or a rookie) bc he is thinking Super Bowl or bust.
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Old 01-31-2019, 10:15 PM   #1752
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If you want to call 13 sacks and 7 FF's all-world, be my guest. But know this; that's all were getting. That's it. It doesn't get any better. In fact, if he plays for the Chiefs in 2019, I believe he won't be able to match that production much less exceed it.

If Ford were an elite pass rusher I could see keeping him around. But he's no DT, and I believe we can do better.
Ford is an elite pass rusher.
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Old 01-31-2019, 10:18 PM   #1753
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I would too man, but I don’t think Andy wants to let him leave next year only to be replaced by Speaks (or a rookie) bc he is thinking Super Bowl or bust.
And if he's injured again? Just based on the numbers, the chances of him getting hurt again are pretty high.

I found a fantasy football site that estimates injury probabilities - they had Ford as the 23rd most likely player in the LEAGUE to get injured at the beginning of the season. The over/under was 2.5 games. Think about that for a minute.

He's almost guaranteed to get hurt next year and if you go by his history, consider the year he had this year with the groin and nothing else, there's a good chance it's SEVERAL games.

You're basically saying Andy wants him as insurance against Speaks being a rookie. Who's insurance against Ford?
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Old 01-31-2019, 10:28 PM   #1754
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I’m still laughing at the low ceiling comment.

Dee has a full blown ELITE first step
Dee runs a 4.5 40 yard dash
Dee has a knack for causing turnovers..most notably stripsacks
His PFF grade has improved every year as a pro
He finally had back surgery that seems to have given him new flexibility.
The longer he goes without back issues, the stronger his core strength will grow and the less of a chance his back issues return.

His “CEILING” is a top 5 pass rusher in the NFL.
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Old 01-31-2019, 10:30 PM   #1755
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And if he's injured again? Just based on the numbers, the chances of him getting hurt again are pretty high.

I found a fantasy football site that estimates injury probabilities - they had Ford as the 23rd most likely player in the LEAGUE to get injured at the beginning of the season. The over/under was 2.5 games. Think about that for a minute.

He's almost guaranteed to get hurt next year and if you go by his history, consider the year he had this year with the groin and nothing else, there's a good chance it's SEVERAL games.

You're basically saying Andy wants him as insurance against Speaks being a rookie. Who's insurance against Ford?
Speaks is going to be very very good at DE once he drops 15 pounds and converts it to muscle.

Suggs lite
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