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Old 04-23-2020, 10:09 PM  
Dante84 Dante84 is offline
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*****The Clyde Edwards-Helaire Thread*****
More to come! (I'll clean it up later - info dump into the OP)

(mod edit, all the goodness is in the spoiler tags)
Spoiler!
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:20 PM   #1711
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Bigger waste of a generational talent at RB:

Barry Sanders

or

Jamaal Charles?
Barry, no question. Sanders was his NFL generation's version of MJ or Wayne Gretzky. He's the GOAT RB; and talent-wise, so far beyond the rest of the field he's in his own zip code. He was like Pat; he broke all the rules at his position and thrived while doing it.
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:23 PM   #1712
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I get that he might not have really meant it, but then why say it? Did anybody in Denver really care? He was washed up when he got there, it was pretty obvious. It's not like Denver fans were rejoicing or anything.

"Thanks for the opportunity" was sufficient. He didn't need to say he ALWAYS wanted to play there.

Plus I'm just not a very nostalgic person anyway. No rings, don't care.
It never really bothered me. Dude was washed and knew it and was trying to find any way at all to ingratiate himself with his teammates/fans. Oh, and he's LITERALLY mentally disabled. The dude's as sharp as a tack hammer. I can't really hold anything he says against him because he's just pretty dumb.

But Tony Gonzalez will always be dead to me. And he makes it worse pretty much every chance he gets. The trade request was frustrating but forgiveable I guess. But then to refuse to waive his no-trade to come back in a lost season for ATL and then while a player to talk about how much he loves Atlanta and how his career didn't really start until he got there. Finally he threw shade on the Chiefs during his HoF induction ceremony.

KC fans - I don't know why you cheer for this guy. He thinks the entire city is beneath him. He never embraced the area, never appreciated the fans and pretty much spent his entire time here looking for a way out.

How most Chiefs fans feel about Neil Smith is how I feel about Gonzalez. I friggen loathe the guy.
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:24 PM   #1713
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It never really bothered me. Dude was washed and knew it and was trying to find any way at all to ingratiate himself with his teammates/fans. Oh, and he's LITERALLY mentally disabled. The dude's as sharp as a tack hammer. I can't really hold anything he says against him because he's just pretty dumb.

But Tony Gonzales will always be dead to me. And he makes it worse pretty much every chance he gets. The trade request was frustrating but forgiveable I guess. But then to refuse to waive his no-trade to come back in a lost season for ATL and then while a player to talk about how much he loves Atlanta and how his career didn't really start until he got there. Finally he threw shade on the Chiefs during his HoF induction ceremony.

KC fans - I don't know why you cheer for this guy. He thinks the entire city is beneath him. He never embraced the area, never appreciated the fans and pretty much spent his entire time here looking for a way out.

How most Chiefs fans feel about Neil Smith is how I feel about Gonzales. I friggen loathe the guy.

Oh I hate Tony worse lol.


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Old 09-16-2020, 12:26 PM   #1714
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Barry, no question. Sanders was his NFL generation's version of MJ or Wayne Gretzky. He's the GOAT RB; and talent-wise, so far beyond the rest of the field he's in his own zip code. He was like Pat; he broke all the rules at his position and thrived while doing it.
Agreed. I wouldn't count Charles as anything close to a generational talent. Very good, yes.
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:29 PM   #1715
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It never really bothered me. Dude was washed and knew it and was trying to find any way at all to ingratiate himself with his teammates/fans. Oh, and he's LITERALLY mentally disabled. The dude's as sharp as a tack hammer. I can't really hold anything he says against him because he's just pretty dumb.

But Tony Gonzales will always be dead to me. And he makes it worse pretty much every chance he gets. The trade request was frustrating but forgiveable I guess. But then to refuse to waive his no-trade to come back in a lost season for ATL and then while a player to talk about how much he loves Atlanta and how his career didn't really start until he got there. Finally he threw shade on the Chiefs during his HoF induction ceremony.

KC fans - I don't know why you cheer for this guy. He thinks the entire city is beneath him. He never embraced the area, never appreciated the fans and pretty much spent his entire time here looking for a way out.

How most Chiefs fans feel about Neil Smith is how I feel about Gonzales. I friggen loathe the guy.
Yeah, I get this. My feelings toward Charles are closer to apathy than anger.

I can't stand Tony Gonzales though.
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:36 PM   #1716
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Jamaal has much faster speed and better vision, even though CeH's vision seems great, Jamaal's was elite. Their pass catching ability is probably simliar, and CeH probably has better short area quickness.

I'd take Jamaal because if CeH gets past the 1 guy, he goes for 25 yards, if Jamaal gets past him, it's a TD.
Not to mention JC had the highest YPC in NFL history...on some terrible Chief teams. He was like 60% of their offense and teams still couldn't stop him.

If he saw "light boxes" the majority of his career....he'd be a 1st ballot HOF RB.

I cant even imagine him in this variation of a Mahomes led offense...

CEH is yet to be determined but 100 yards after contact in his first ever game...dude is going to be special.
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:37 PM   #1717
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Agreed. I wouldn't count Charles as anything close to a generational talent. Very good, yes.
Sure he was - with the caveat that he lacked the one skill that is fundamental to being an all-timer.

Health. I'm firmly convinced that some guys body's are just better equipped to handle the same stress and same impacts than other guys. It's a skill you have or you don't. Jamaal didn't.

But from a pure talent perspective - you must not remember some of the shit that guy did. He was truly one of the most talented RBs in NFL history. Yes, he was a 'generational player' when healthy.

He just didn't have the body to do it long enough.
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:48 PM   #1718
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Sure he was - with the caveat that he lacked the one skill that is fundamental to being an all-timer.

Health. I'm firmly convinced that some guys body's are just better equipped to handle the same stress and same impacts than other guys. It's a skill you have or you don't. Jamaal didn't.

But from a pure talent perspective - you must not remember some of the shit that guy did. He was truly one of the most talented RBs in NFL history. Yes, he was a 'generational player' when healthy.

He just didn't have the body to do it long enough.
I mostly agree, but not being able to do it long enough prevents him from being an all-time great, especially with zero rings, and not a single playoff victory.
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Old 09-16-2020, 01:04 PM
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Old 09-16-2020, 01:20 PM   #1719
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I mostly agree, but not being able to do it long enough prevents him from being an all-time great, especially with zero rings, and not a single playoff victory.
Agreed.

I think the question was mostly one of talent, though. Did he have the raw ability to be an all-time great?

Boy, hard to have seen who he was in 2010 or even the post-achilles 2012 season and say he didn't. And even in 2012 (and thereafter) I don't think he was quite as fast as he was in that 2010 season.

5 years of 2010 Jamaal and a few more of 2012-2014 puts him in extremely select company.

His raw talent was pretty close to unmatched.
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Old 09-16-2020, 01:30 PM   #1720
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Yeah, watching those old 2009-2010 JC highlights is crazy. Dude's speed was just different.

His TD numbers spiked with Reid but at that point I think he had definitely lost a step, which is hilarious because he was noticeably slower yet still one of the fastest guys in the league.
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Old 09-16-2020, 01:41 PM   #1721
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My poor high school went against Jamaal Charles. He ran for 300+ and a lot of TD's. He was unstoppable. Not surprising for such a talented guy going against typical high school kids.

But we squeaked out a victory at the very end. Our QB was scrambling around, fumbled the ball...Jamaal's team thought it was an incomplete pass and gave up on the play. Our QB picked it up and ran it 50 yards for a TD as the clock expired. This was at their stadium, so the crowd was furious at the refs. High school in 2003, so no instant replay to see if the fumble was actually an incomplete pass. We got lucky as hell to win that game, haha.
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Old 09-16-2020, 01:41 PM   #1722
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This offense with prime JC would be COMPLETELY unstoppable.

You HAD to put 8 in the box against JC or get torched.
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Old 09-16-2020, 01:44 PM   #1723
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My poor high school went against Jamaal Charles. He ran for 300+ and a lot of TD's. He was unstoppable. Not surprising for such a talented guy going against typical high school kids.

But we squeaked out a victory at the very end. Our QB was scrambling around, fumbled the ball...Jamaal's team thought it was an incomplete pass and gave up on the play. Our QB picked it up and ran it 50 yards for a TD as the clock expired. This was at their stadium, so the crowd was furious at the refs. High school in 2003, so no instant replay to see if the fumble was actually an incomplete pass. We got lucky as hell to win that game, haha.
My high school had to deal with Darren Sproles. No games were won against his team.
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Old 09-16-2020, 01:45 PM   #1724
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Yeah, watching those old 2009-2010 JC highlights is crazy. Dude's speed was just different.

His TD numbers spiked with Reid but at that point I think he had definitely lost a step, which is hilarious because he was noticeably slower yet still one of the fastest guys in the league.
He had a game against Seattle in 2010 where he was just ripping of 10/12 yard chunks seemingly every time he touched the ball. He went for about a buck seventy five on 8 yards/carry and never had a carry over like 25 yards.

To say it was death by 1,000 papercuts isn't accurate. It wasn't even a series of body blows. It was more like repeated stab-wounds.

I was completely convinced that Charles could've set the single-game yardage record in that game. We still had Jones as the 'starter' and he got something like 20 carries in that game.

And I think it was the season before he had a similar game against Denver where he damn near DID set the record. Had over 250 yards IIRC. And then they had a drive late in the game starting deep in their own territory when it was already decided and the season was over (in a year they lost 11 or 12 games). He had a shot to break that damn record and for whatever reason Haley gives it to some scrub backup 3 times to burn clock and punts.

When a guy has a shot at history, you let him try it. It always chapped my ass that they didn't.
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Old 09-16-2020, 01:47 PM   #1725
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Agreed.

I think the question was mostly one of talent, though. Did he have the raw ability to be an all-time great?

His raw talent was pretty close to unmatched.
This is how I took the question as well. As a pure on-the-field talent, JC was definitely a generational talent. As in we don't see guys like him but every 20-25 years.

But Barry was on yet another level, like a once-in-a-century kind of talent. Maybe once-in-a-millennia.
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