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Old 04-29-2022, 06:44 PM  
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Old 10-25-2022, 10:29 AM   #1696
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Hardman and Clyde don’t succeed often when they actually have to play their position. The schemes plays like screens and jet sweeps that we saw in SF? They’re great. Running routes downfield and taking a handoff in the backfield looking for the hole?

Those guys just don’t succeed very often doing that.

So again why would you pay either of them 2nd contracts?
I mean, Hardman does, especially this year.

What do you even mean "play their position"?

Hardman won't ever be mistaken for Jerry Rice, but IIRC, you were on board with trading away the best all around WR in his prime the Chiefs have ever had and going with the "depth" approach. Well, Hardman absolutely is imperative in that as we've seen.
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Old 10-25-2022, 10:32 AM   #1697
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Hardman and Clyde don’t succeed often when they actually have to play their position. The schemes plays like screens and jet sweeps that we saw in SF? They’re great. Running routes downfield and taking a handoff in the backfield looking for the hole?

Those guys just don’t succeed very often doing that.

So again why would you pay either of them 2nd contracts?
{throws hands up}

I just can't even imagine where you're getting this or what point you're trying to make here.

This is just so wrong. And it doesn't even get into the points previously raised regarding unique skill-sets.

You made up your mind on Hardman some time ago - we get it.
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Old 10-25-2022, 10:37 AM   #1698
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I think they replaced Watkins w/ JuJu.

They really liked having that physical YAC guy. So much so that they brought him back when it seemed obvious that it was time to move on (and in the end, it was).

I think they'll try to keep JJSS for sure - Andy absolutely wants a guy who can get the ball and run through someone. He clearly has those plays in his play book and hasn't been able to use them for a couple years.

But that's where I get back to what Hardman brings - those routes are FAR more effective when you have someone like Hardman AND MVS out there threatening the safeties. One of those guys and you just roll coverage. With 2 of them, you've gotta pick your poison. You've reached an impossible decision point.
I agree here but I don’t think you can keep both Juju and Hardman. Not with the OBJ issue, the DL issue, extending Jones and Sneed, maybe extending Gay and Thornhill.

He seems like a luxury piece that should be replaced in the draft next year. Perhaps with a taller, stronger Calvin Austin
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Old 10-25-2022, 11:04 AM   #1699
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I agree here but I don’t think you can keep both Juju and Hardman. Not with the OBJ issue, the DL issue, extending Jones and Sneed, maybe extending Gay and Thornhill.

He seems like a luxury piece that should be replaced in the draft next year. Perhaps with a taller, stronger Calvin Austin
Structure will matter. A LOT.

A Chris Jones extension would help. I think LT will have a smaller number next year than it does this year (either via a LTC or Draft pick).

I haven't looked at WR in the draft - you may be right. But again I have to note that you're talking about yet ANOTHER steep learning curve at the position.

Ultimately Moore's development likely makes the decision for you. But I think to some extent Moore and JJSS are more redundant than Moore and Hardman. They are going to occupy the same spaces (and oftentimes spaces occupied by Travis Kelce).

They do things differently but in the same places on the field. I mean 60% of Moore's routes in college were slants, curls and/or flat routes. That's...high. And it's where JJSS makes a lot of his bones as well.

Moore coming along may make it LESS likely they retain JJSS and more likely they retain Hardman. I think that runs in the face of conventional wisdom but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes to me.

I don't know - it's all a little odd. They're using JJSS as a boundary player but having him run conventional slot routes. I still haven't quite wrapped my head around how all these pieces are working together.
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Old 10-25-2022, 11:30 AM   #1700
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I agree here but I don’t think you can keep both Juju and Hardman. Not with the OBJ issue, the DL issue, extending Jones and Sneed, maybe extending Gay and Thornhill.

He seems like a luxury piece that should be replaced in the draft next year. Perhaps with a taller, stronger Calvin Austin
OBJ issue? Let him walk and get a better one moving up in the draft. There is no issue.
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Old 10-25-2022, 11:49 AM   #1701
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I still haven't quite wrapped my head around how all these pieces are working together.
To be fair, I don't think the Chiefs coaching staff grasps it fully yet, either.
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Old 10-25-2022, 11:53 AM   #1702
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Old 10-25-2022, 12:06 PM   #1703
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You can see the depth Hardman is getting and immediately see what Moore was supposed to do.

Reid doesn't run crossers AT each other. Hardman is supposed to draw coverage back so Moore can run underneath it.

Tough look for sure and not an 'improvised' situation. He just ran a shitty route there on a play clearly schemed up for him.
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Old 10-25-2022, 12:13 PM   #1704
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Please do. As soon as Moore passes the first down marker, Mahomes looks his way and starts to throw. Relative to where Moore is at that moment, Mahomes is rightfully expecting him to settle in that open zone and catch it for the first. Instead he keeps going up the field and the S makes a play on the ball that ultimately leads to it getting intercepted.
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How ****ing quick do you think he can process and throw it. When he looks at Moore he's in a perfect spot to square off the route and settle into the open zone for a first so he cocks back and fires. Unfortunately Moore didn't do that and ran into the S coverage.

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Old 10-25-2022, 12:30 PM   #1705
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CEH is a dime a dozen, Hardman is not, teams value explosive athletes.

Absolutely.


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Old 10-25-2022, 12:35 PM   #1706
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Great illustration of Moore’s poorly run route.


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Old 10-25-2022, 01:28 PM   #1707
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It’s worth pointing out that quote from Andy came on a question about Patrick. For Andy to go out of his way to clarify Skyy had fault for that play felt like a professional call out from Reid (professional since he layered it with praise for Skyy) especially as he could have chalked up the INT to miscommunication. Clarifying Skyy had fault felt like an intentional move there.
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Old 10-25-2022, 02:12 PM   #1708
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I mean, Hardman does, especially this year.

What do you even mean "play their position"?

Hardman won't ever be mistaken for Jerry Rice, but IIRC, you were on board with trading away the best all around WR in his prime the Chiefs have ever had and going with the "depth" approach. Well, Hardman absolutely is imperative in that as we've seen.
Hardman excels when he gets specialty touches that are manufactured for him. Jet sweeps, screens behind the LOS, toss passes behind the LOS.

You guys are acting like he is irreplaceable. So if a team offers him $12 million or more should we pay it?

I mean damn man. There are options with 4.3 speed out there if we don’t wanna pay that much.

One was Calvin Austin who the Steelers drafted on day 3. DJ loved him too
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Old 10-25-2022, 02:14 PM   #1709
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Hardman excels when he gets specialty touches that are manufactured for him. Jet sweeps, screens behind the LOS, toss passes behind the LOS.

You guys are acting like he is irreplaceable. So if a team offers him $12 million or more should we pay it?

I mean damn man. There are options with 4.3 speed out there if we don’t wanna pay that much.

One was Calvin Austin who the Steelers drafted on day 3. DJ loved him too
Yeah, don't pay him 12 million a year. No shit.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess he doesn't get near that, but if so, move on.

I'm sorry he pissed in your cheerios
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Old 10-25-2022, 02:28 PM   #1710
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Yeah, don't pay him 12 million a year. No shit.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess he doesn't get near that, but if so, move on.

I'm sorry he pissed in your cheerios
Like I said, I'd give him the deal MVS got.

It's essentially a 1 year, $9 million dollar deal with team options for $9 million and $12 million thereafter.

If necessary, I'd go ahead and effectively lock in the 2nd year and make it a 2 year, $18 million deal w/ an option for a 3rd at $12 million.

He's an extremely young player who has improved here. Throwing that out because he didn't hit the ground at 100 mph (and remember, I have never liked the pick) is just awfully reckless, IMO.

Now if the money doesn't work, it doesn't work. I think JJSS or Hardman is a false choice - we can make that work.

But if it's Hardman or Thornhill? Hmmmmm.....now we're making things tough. I think I'd rather have Thornhill.

But my justifications are similar, both guys offer something that's not as easy to get as is being suggested.
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