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Old 04-29-2022, 06:44 PM  
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Old 10-25-2022, 09:30 AM   #1651
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Why would they pay Hardman? He’s a gadget player. He doesn’t run routes well. He succeeds on jet sweeps and screens.

Do you really think it’s difficult for a rookie to do that job?
"Andy Reid's offense is really hard and takes a long time to pick up..."

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"Why would you pay that guy? He's just a gadget player!"

Folks - there are like 8 guys in the league that don't need help from the scheme to get open. Getting yards is getting yards. No, I don't think any ol' swinging dick can do what Hardman does in this offense.
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Old 10-25-2022, 09:32 AM   #1652
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We just signed a guy with his speed to a 3 year deal that in 7 games is pretty damn close to putting up a full season of Hardman's production.
We need both.

And for the record, Hardman's speed is more explosive than MVSs is. MVS does other things better than Hardman but Hardman gets to speed much faster and cuts much cleaner in space.

Not sure why he can't do that when he's running routes, but with the ball in his hands, Hardman is a more explosive player than MVS is.
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Old 10-25-2022, 09:34 AM   #1653
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"Andy Reid's offense is really hard and takes a long time to pick up..."

{player shows steady growth in the system}

"Why would you pay that guy? He's just a gadget player!"

Folks - there are like 8 guys in the league that don't need help from the scheme to get open. Getting yards is getting yards. No, I don't think any ol' swinging dick can do what Hardman does in this offense.
I think it depends on which version of Hardman they're scheming. If it's the Hardman from the first 5 games, where they're trying to use him more like a traditional WR, then AOSD can absolutely do what he does. If Reid commits to using him primarily like he did against SF, then he's worth keeping around, but the contract has to reflect that role - would Hardman accept that's what he is in the NFL?
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Old 10-25-2022, 09:34 AM   #1654
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Could someone put a spoiler tag on all these videos in the OP possibly? I think everyone has seen them by now.
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Old 10-25-2022, 09:35 AM   #1655
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
We need both.

And for the record, Hardman's speed is more explosive than MVSs is. MVS does other things better than Hardman but Hardman gets to speed much faster and cuts much cleaner in space.

Not sure why he can't do that when he's running routes, but with the ball in his hands, Hardman is a more explosive player than MVS is.
Hardman just has no polish to his game, his route running is still really sloppy. He is an explosive athlete though, you can see the speed and explosion.
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Old 10-25-2022, 09:36 AM   #1656
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I mean, Hardman is probably getting a 10m AAV per year deal just because he caught balls from Mahomes.
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Old 10-25-2022, 09:36 AM   #1657
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Speed, guys that run that fast aren't just all over the place. It'll be about money though.

Also yea in hindsight taking Moore over Pickens doesn't look like a smart move, you can't win em all I guess.
Pickens isn’t the type of WR that fits Andy’s offense IMO. DeSean Jackson, Albert Wilson, DeAnthony Thomas, Tyreek Hill, Mecole Hardman.

Guys who can do the gadget stuff and be WR’s. Doesn’t seem like that’s Pickens game.

I think Andy gets those guys with that skill set specifically for games like the one we just played in SF. The jets sweeps, lining up all over, getting open in space for screens.

Could be a detriment to Andy but it’s pretty clear he has a prototype
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Old 10-25-2022, 09:36 AM   #1658
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I think it depends on which version of Hardman they're scheming. If it's the Hardman from the first 5 games, where they're trying to use him more like a traditional WR, then AOSD can absolutely do what he does. If Reid commits to using him primarily like he did against SF, then he's worth keeping around, but the contract has to reflect that role - would Hardman accept that's what he is in the NFL?
And that is the question, WR's get paid in FA. He could easily get a big offer from a bad team or a team that lacks explosive players in the pass game.
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Old 10-25-2022, 09:38 AM   #1659
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Pickens isn’t the type of WR that fits Andy’s offense IMO. DeSean Jackson, Albert Wilson, DeAnthony Thomas, Tyreek Hill, Mecole Hardman.

Guys who can do the gadget stuff and be WR’s. Doesn’t seem like that’s Pickens game.

I think Andy gets those guys with that skill set specifically for games like the one we just played in SF. The jets sweeps, lining up all over, getting open in space for screens.

Could be a detriment to Andy but it’s pretty clear he has a prototype
Terrell Owens had a huge year with Andy Reid, this idea only certain types fit is kinda wrong.
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Old 10-25-2022, 09:40 AM   #1660
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Guys who can do the gadget stuff and be WR’s. Doesn’t seem like that’s Pickens game.
Nor is that JuJu's or MVS's or Watkins or hell, Terrell Owens.

Andy has always had a bit of variety in his receiving group.
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Old 10-25-2022, 09:40 AM   #1661
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I think it depends on which version of Hardman they're scheming. If it's the Hardman from the first 5 games, where they're trying to use him more like a traditional WR, then AOSD can absolutely do what he does. If Reid commits to using him primarily like he did against SF, then he's worth keeping around, but the contract has to reflect that role - would Hardman accept that's what he is in the NFL?
I don't think so, though.

A) Hardman's foot has clearly been bothering him.
B) He was damn good against the Raiders and pretty good against the Chargers despite being obviously limited by the heel.

No, I don't think he's going to be a pure X receiver. But I think there's a happy medium. I think there's a version of Hardman that incorporates his usage against the Raiders/Chargers w/ the threat (or actual) use of him like we used him against the 49ers.

He's gotten a lot more willing to absorb contact to make the catch. He's gotten a lot better about attacking the ball with his hands to bring it in. And yes, I think he's improved in his route running and his chemistry.

He's gotten quite a bit better here. And his physical tools aren't in question.

If I could get him signed to the deal we got MVS signed to, I'd give it to him without question. I'd offer it to him now, in fact. That's an opportunity for some real surplus value. Guys with his tools aren't easy to get. I mean set THIS version of him alongside Jameson Williams and tell me what Williams is clearly better at?

And he's still only 24 years old. He's all of 3 years older than Williams - there's PLENTY of football in front of him.

You want to buy IN to guys like Hardman, not walk away from them.
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Old 10-25-2022, 09:41 AM   #1662
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Terrell Owens had a huge year with Andy Reid, this idea only certain types fit is kinda wrong.
Absolutely.

I think he has a preference (Tyreek Hill) but I don't think he's married to any sort of mold.

The man's an artist - Give him a tuba and he'll get you something out of it...
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Old 10-25-2022, 09:42 AM   #1663
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"Andy Reid's offense is really hard and takes a long time to pick up..."

{player shows steady growth in the system}

"Why would you pay that guy? He's just a gadget player!"

Folks - there are like 8 guys in the league that don't need help from the scheme to get open. Getting yards is getting yards. No, I don't think any ol' swinging dick can do what Hardman does in this offense.
Hardman was benched last year and he still doesn’t do well on anything else besides jet sweeps and screens. He sometimes makes a play as WR but it’s not enough to put him any substantial money.

Did I also mention he can’t block well?

If Hardman missed games and Skyy took over for awhile it would be a different story bc Skyy would be the one getting Hardman’s screens and jet sweeps.

Hardman is also easy to replace as a gadget player. You loved Calvin Austin in the draft. You really think that guy couldn’t do jet sweeps and screens with his speed?
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Old 10-25-2022, 09:44 AM   #1664
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I'd love to sign Hardman to a long term deal, maybe just a small amount less than MVS. $8-9 mil/yr. I'd love to use him like the 49ers use Deebo. More runs/jet sweeps.
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Old 10-25-2022, 09:44 AM   #1665
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Too bad Urban Meyer is a collosal failure as an NFL coach because Hardman would probably rape faces in his H Back role.
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