Herm defends run run pass punt - Page 11

Hammock Parties · 11-19-2007, 11:23 PM

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/368858.html

Edwards defends conservative approach to offense

Given any other team’s offensive players, Herm Edwards might have tried harder to match Peyton Manning and the Indianapolis Colts point for point.

Edwards is instead coaching the Chiefs, who are doing nothing consistently well when they’ve had the ball. That being the case, Edwards defended his decisions in Sunday’s 13-10 loss, saying the considerable offensive shortcomings leave him no realistic choice but to be what most fans consider ultra-conservative.

“There’s no room for error for us,” Edwards said Monday. “We have more three-and-outs than anybody in football. We have more negative plays than anybody in football. It’s hard playing that way. You put a lot of strain on the defense. So you’re trying to protect them, too. You don’t want your defense out there the whole game.

“Do I want to play that way? Heck, no. But we have to play that way. I’m trying to play the best way for the Chiefs to win the game.”

The subject obviously frustrated Edwards, who at times raised or lower his voice to make a point. He never wavered from his stance that an inability to make yards when running the ball or adequately protect the quarterback means the Chiefs are realistically squeezing every point possible from their offense.

“You have all of these great ideas that you want to use,” Edwards said. “There are a lot of things other teams are doing that we’d like to do. But we know what we are whether we like it or not. It’s been 10 weeks. You’re not going to all of a sudden evolve into something like New England. You’ve got to do what you feel you’re capable of doing.

“You know what you’re capable of doing and at the end of the day, you’re always trying to do things the players can be successful at. You can’t do things that won’t let your players be successful. You have to take some chances once in a while. I understand that. But there are (only) certain things we’re capable of doing.

“Would we like to do some different things? Sure. But you have to play to the strengths of your players. It looks like we’re conservative at times.

“We’re doing things in a way we feel we’re capable of doing them. As a staff, we’ve been with these players every day. We coach them every day. We know what they’re capable of doing. Whether everybody else believes that, it doesn’t matter. It might look conservative, but it’s a way of playing football that gives us the best opportunity to win.”

The Chiefs may have been able to squeeze more points near the end of the first half.

They took over at their 23 with 1 minute, 15 seconds and three timeouts left. The score was 3-3.

The Chiefs ran out the clock rather than try for points. Edwards ordered quarterback Brodie Croyle to hand the ball twice to Kolby Smith, once for 4 yards and the next for 5, rather than attempt a pass.

“We decided we were going to run the ball on the first play,” Edwards said. “If we got a first down, if we got 15 yards or so, then we were going to go for it. But that didn’t happen. And at that point I didn’t want to give (the Colts) momentum. They had two timeouts left. If we had taken almost no time off the clock with three incomplete passes and then we punted, we would have given the ball back to Peyton Manning with two timeouts.

“Then they get the ball back to start the third quarter. I’m not giving them two shots at me without us having even one. That makes no sense to me. I’m looking at all of that and saying, ‘Wait a minute.’ We survived the first half.

“Yeah, I was playing it conservative at that point. I guess people think we should take a chance because we were 14-point underdogs. But I’m trying to win the game. We were backed up. It was noisy. There were too many variables in that one.

“If I’m somebody else, then maybe I do it differently. But I know what I am right now.”

Against the Colts, Croyle made his first start in place of Damon Huard. Edwards made the change in part because of Croyle’s superior passing skills.

But the Chiefs declined to use those skills. His longest completion of the game was 19 yards, not counting the lateral on the game’s last play that gave him a statistical 21-yard gain.

Edwards indicated the Chiefs might try to throw more down the field in Sunday’s game against Oakland at Arrowhead Stadium.

“(The Colts) play a lot of cover 2,” Edwards said. “They’re not going to let you throw the ball down the field. They’ve only given up 10 plays of 20 yards passing. They don’t give up those plays.

“You’ll see the ball go down the field more against Oakland because they play more man to man. If we can get some one-on-one matchups we like, we’ll do it. That’s the next thing you try to do the next six weeks. This was his first game, and we had to get a feel for him emotionally and where he’s going to be. Now we can build on that.”

Hammock Parties · 11-20-2007, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

I gave him a chance to prove himself, he has.

26 games. Some chance. Herm is 13-13.

Do you know what Vermeil's record as a Chief was after 26 games?

11-15.

bobbything · 11-20-2007, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

At the end of the day, we're in a transition phase with this football team,'' coach Herm Edwards said Monday. This is not the team that you're going to see next year. There are going to be some changes on this team. There's no doubt about it. We're going through a transition phase. That's a process.

I wonder how well he knows how to build a competent offense. I'm not big Vermeil guy, but it took him all of one full season to build a very good offense, and two full seasons to build a dominating offense.

Herm, conversely, has taken this knowledge and done the same with the defense. Well, not exactly the same. This defense isn't exactly dominating, but it is good.

As a fan, I just get sick of seeing the scale tipped so heavily from one side to the other.

siberian khatru · 11-20-2007, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samson

What if we recover the Tamba strip late in the 4th Qt.? And what if we were able to go down and do exactly what Indy did to us...kick a filed goal with no time left?

Would that make Herm a genius for putting his team in a position to win against the champs, and then seizing the opportunity?

That being said, Herm-ball is HORRIBLE for the fans, but does it give the talent he has the best opportunity to win the game?

What are the posts around here like if we throw the ball around and lose 38-17?...

Noob

But we didn't recover it.

But if we want to play hypotheticals, let's play. OK, we recover it -- and run twice, gain 5 yards, then throw a 4-yard pass on 3rd down and then punt. Or get sacked in an obvious passing down. Or throw incomplete. Or run for it on 3rd down and fall short. In other words, what if we recovered -- and STILL didn't convert?

Here's another hypothetical. What if we threw deep once and got a pass interference penalty that set us up for a short FG or even a TD?

What if? What if? What if? With all due respect, that's all your post is. And although it begins on a defensive play that didn't happen, it still assumes the offense must convert it -- which is no different than all the other what-ifs the critics are throwing out.

We whittled the game down to one possession in the 4th quarter. So what did we do?

1) Run for loss; short pass; short pass; punt
2) Run for no gain; short pass; PASS FOR FIRST DOWN (!); rush for loss; rush for loss; draw; punt.

We had the ball -- just like in your scenario. What did we do with it? We played scared.

Here's what's frustrating -- Herm's game plan WORKED, right up to the point where he FAILED TO CAPITALIZE ON IT. He undermined his entire philosophy.

It's like finally scoring a date with the hot chick, and then being too afraid to give her a goodnight kiss.

FAX · 11-20-2007, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samson

Herm-Ball is HORRIBLE for the fans, but I can't help but think what if...

What if we recover the Tamba strip late in the 4th Qt.? And what if we were able to go down and do exactly what Indy did to us...kick a filed goal with no time left?

Would that make Herm a genius for putting his team in a position to win against the champs, and then seizing the opportunity?

That being said, Herm-ball is HORRIBLE for the fans, but does it give the talent he has the best opportunity to win the game?

What are the posts around here like if we throw the ball around and lose 38-17?...

Noob

For my part, it's not about throwing the ball 70 times, Mr. Samson. I have no desire to watch the Chiefs play stupid ball. My angst is fostered by a few items and that's not one of them.

1) Not playing for the first down. It should be clear by now that, 8 times out of 10, we are looking for the first with a prayer and a run or pass short of the sticks.

2) Not playing the entire field. This has been talked about so much on this board, I won't repeat it. Suffice it to say that we've been challenging defenses 5 to 10 yards beyond the line of scrimmage.

3) Dumb ass excuses. I'm sick and tired of Herm's spin. "Our playcalling couldn't get in rhythm because we had too many three and outs." Apparently, he has cause and effect backwards in his mind.

4) Intimating that the "common eyed" fans don't know their ass hole from the face on Mars when it comes to football.

Most of the Planeteers are very astute when it comes to football. In fact, many could coach. As for myself, I'm just tired of the lies and spin. If Herm would come out and say, "I've struggled getting this team prepared offensively, but we're working on it.", my respect for him would increase 1000 fold.

FAX

Wile_E_Coyote · 11-20-2007, 10:07 AM

Why does this article make me think of the Brits. Marching down the road in powdered wigs and snappy uniforms. Marching in step, a drummer sounding out the beat.

Mean while in the trees & bushes, the colonist, rifles in hand. Are picking them off like ducks. Ducks that have their feet frozen in a lake

**dirk digler** · 11-20-2007, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOATSE

26 games. Some chance. Herm is 13-13.

Do you know what Vermeil's record as a Chief was after 26 games?

11-15.

When Herm head coaches in 2 SB's and actually wins one then he deserves that chance otherwise he doesn't.

Gun got fired after 2 seasons and he was .500 Herm won't be at .500 come the end of this year.

**HemiEd** · 11-20-2007, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOATSE

26 games. Some chance. Herm is 13-13.

Do you know what Vermeil's record as a Chief was after 26 games?

11-15.

Vermeil inherited a 7-9 team, in cap hell, that was in total dissarray. Edwards inherited a 10-6 team, full of high caliber players.

Vermeil took the offense from 9th to 1st in two years, Edwards has taken it from 1st to 30th.

**chasedude** · 11-20-2007, 10:15 AM

Go to Hell Herm... this team is going no where as long as you're the HC

Radar Chief · 11-20-2007, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

Apparently, he has cause and effect backwards in his mind.

Exactly. Do we really have ridiculously conservative play calling because we have more 3 & outs than the rest of the league or do we have more 3 & outs than the rest of the league because of the ridiculously conservative play calling?
IMO, it’s the later.

**DaKCMan AP** · 11-20-2007, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbything

I wonder how well he knows how to build a competent offense. I'm not big Vermeil guy, but it took him all of one full season to build a very good offense, and two full seasons to build a dominating offense.

Herm, conversely, has taken this knowledge and done the same with the defense. Well, not exactly the same. This defense isn't exactly dominating, but it is good.

As a fan, I just get sick of seeing the scale tipped so heavily from one side to the other.

I understand, but DV was given 4 additional years to try and fix the D. Doesn't Herm deserve more than 1 to try and fix the O?

Hammock Parties · 11-20-2007, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Vermeil inherited a 7-9 team, in cap hell, that was in total dissarray. Edwards inherited a 10-6 team, full of high caliber players.

We've been over this before. The notion that Herm inherited some talent-laden team is ridiculous. The offense was in sharp decline as soon as he got here. The defense was in shambles.

Bottom line...Herm deserves more of a chance.

**DaKCMan AP** · 11-20-2007, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Edwards inherited a 10-6 team, full of high caliber players.

Willie Roaf? Gone.
Will Shields? Gone.
Trent Green? Gone.
Eddie Kennison? Almost 35 years old and breaking down.
Priest Holmes? 2 years removed from football and 34 years old.

Beyond LJ, Waters and TonyG, what high caliber players did Herm inherit on O?

**the Talking Can** · 11-20-2007, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar Chief

Exactly. Do we really have ridiculously conservative play calling because we have more 3 & outs than the rest of the league or do we have more 3 & outs than the rest of the league because of the ridiculously conservative play calling?
IMO, it’s the later.

it's an enigma wrapped in a cheesburger....

**DaKCMan AP** · 11-20-2007, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

it's an enigma wrapped in a cheesburger....

mmmm....cheeseburger

siberian khatru · 11-20-2007, 10:20 AM

mmmmm ... enigma

11-19-2007, 11:23 PM
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $1030478	Herm defends run run pass punt http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/368858.html Edwards defends conservative approach to offense Given any other team’s offensive players, Herm Edwards might have tried harder to match Peyton Manning and the Indianapolis Colts point for point. Edwards is instead coaching the Chiefs, who are doing nothing consistently well when they’ve had the ball. That being the case, Edwards defended his decisions in Sunday’s 13-10 loss, saying the considerable offensive shortcomings leave him no realistic choice but to be what most fans consider ultra-conservative. “There’s no room for error for us,” Edwards said Monday. “We have more three-and-outs than anybody in football. We have more negative plays than anybody in football. It’s hard playing that way. You put a lot of strain on the defense. So you’re trying to protect them, too. You don’t want your defense out there the whole game. “Do I want to play that way? Heck, no. But we have to play that way. I’m trying to play the best way for the Chiefs to win the game.” The subject obviously frustrated Edwards, who at times raised or lower his voice to make a point. He never wavered from his stance that an inability to make yards when running the ball or adequately protect the quarterback means the Chiefs are realistically squeezing every point possible from their offense. “You have all of these great ideas that you want to use,” Edwards said. “There are a lot of things other teams are doing that we’d like to do. But we know what we are whether we like it or not. It’s been 10 weeks. You’re not going to all of a sudden evolve into something like New England. You’ve got to do what you feel you’re capable of doing. “You know what you’re capable of doing and at the end of the day, you’re always trying to do things the players can be successful at. You can’t do things that won’t let your players be successful. You have to take some chances once in a while. I understand that. But there are (only) certain things we’re capable of doing. “Would we like to do some different things? Sure. But you have to play to the strengths of your players. It looks like we’re conservative at times. “We’re doing things in a way we feel we’re capable of doing them. As a staff, we’ve been with these players every day. We coach them every day. We know what they’re capable of doing. Whether everybody else believes that, it doesn’t matter. It might look conservative, but it’s a way of playing football that gives us the best opportunity to win.” The Chiefs may have been able to squeeze more points near the end of the first half. They took over at their 23 with 1 minute, 15 seconds and three timeouts left. The score was 3-3. The Chiefs ran out the clock rather than try for points. Edwards ordered quarterback Brodie Croyle to hand the ball twice to Kolby Smith, once for 4 yards and the next for 5, rather than attempt a pass. “We decided we were going to run the ball on the first play,” Edwards said. “If we got a first down, if we got 15 yards or so, then we were going to go for it. But that didn’t happen. And at that point I didn’t want to give (the Colts) momentum. They had two timeouts left. If we had taken almost no time off the clock with three incomplete passes and then we punted, we would have given the ball back to Peyton Manning with two timeouts. “Then they get the ball back to start the third quarter. I’m not giving them two shots at me without us having even one. That makes no sense to me. I’m looking at all of that and saying, ‘Wait a minute.’ We survived the first half. “Yeah, I was playing it conservative at that point. I guess people think we should take a chance because we were 14-point underdogs. But I’m trying to win the game. We were backed up. It was noisy. There were too many variables in that one. “If I’m somebody else, then maybe I do it differently. But I know what I am right now.” Against the Colts, Croyle made his first start in place of Damon Huard. Edwards made the change in part because of Croyle’s superior passing skills. But the Chiefs declined to use those skills. His longest completion of the game was 19 yards, not counting the lateral on the game’s last play that gave him a statistical 21-yard gain. Edwards indicated the Chiefs might try to throw more down the field in Sunday’s game against Oakland at Arrowhead Stadium. “(The Colts) play a lot of cover 2,” Edwards said. “They’re not going to let you throw the ball down the field. They’ve only given up 10 plays of 20 yards passing. They don’t give up those plays. “You’ll see the ball go down the field more against Oakland because they play more man to man. If we can get some one-on-one matchups we like, we’ll do it. That’s the next thing you try to do the next six weeks. This was his first game, and we had to get a feel for him emotionally and where he’s going to be. Now we can build on that.”
Posts: 296,728

11-20-2007, 10:07 AM	#155
Wile_E_Coyote avatar down for remodel Join Date: Jul 2001 Casino cash: $10004900	Why does this article make me think of the Brits. Marching down the road in powdered wigs and snappy uniforms. Marching in step, a drummer sounding out the beat. Mean while in the trees & bushes, the colonist, rifles in hand. Are picking them off like ducks. Ducks that have their feet frozen in a lake
Posts: 6,009

11-20-2007, 10:15 AM	#158
chasedude Supporter Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: St. Joe Casino cash: $9994900	Go to Hell Herm... this team is going no where as long as you're the HC
Posts: 36,287

11-20-2007, 10:20 AM	#165
siberian khatru 21st Century Schizoid Fan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Gates of Delirium Casino cash: $-1135050	mmmmm ... enigma
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