Royals 2012 Kansas City Royals Repository Thread - Page 103

**alnorth** · 10:54 PM

2012 Slogan: Our Time

A better, more accurate 2012 Slogan: It is Finally Next Year
(from Great Expectations)

An alternative slogan if you don't like that one: Someone has to win this crappy division
(from alnorth)

With the beginning of a new year, it is time for the 2012 version of the Royals Repository Thread. We've got Hosmer, we've got a 2011-dominating Gordon, we've got Moose, we've got hopefully a killer bullpen, we've got a stereotypical slow slugging DH, we've got easily one of the best defensive shortstops in the AL, we've got a promising catcher in Salvador Perez. Hell, we've got offense and promising prospects galore.

We do not have starting pitching.

Oh yeah, we've also got this:

Get ready for, (as of January 2012 anyway), one of the most confusing puzzles of a baseball season in recent Royals history. Will they suck? Maybe, I don't know. Will we be given a year of 0.500 baseball? Possibly, I don't know. Will they win the division and go to the playoffs for the first time in 27 years? For the first time in a long time, it could happen, I don't know. 92 losses, 92 wins, or anything in between would not surprise a lot of us.

Everything goes here except Gameday threads and really big news. If a giant story breaks, the Royals achieve some awesome milestone, or we sign/lose a highly significant player/coach/mascot/whatever, then it might also deserve its own thread. This being Chiefs Planet, please do not clutter the board with new threads about trivial Royals news or you will only annoy those who come here for just Chiefs football. If you aren't sure and its not a Gameday thread, it goes here.

What sort of stuff often goes here? SPchief explained it well, so I'll just copy that:

Quote:

If you locate something of interest.. ANYTHING.. deals on apparel, best ways in/out of the stadium, giveaways, great stories from this season or from seasons gone by, rumors, trades, anything.... feel free to post it here.

Al Bundy · 03-19-2012, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurman merman

Yeah, I don't get it. You would think that the fans of a franchise that has been so awful for so long would be a little more appreciative of the guy who has been their best player collectively over the last few years.

I think most were expecting it after last season.

**DeezNutz** · 03-19-2012, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

No, not really. Many people rate closers so highly that a .500 team or a losing team is advised by their fans to keep him.

The marginal value of a great closer vs a pretty good or average closer is very, very low. However, if you are at 92 wins and you really need 93 or 94 wins to win your division, and you've pretty much maxed out your lineup and rotation, then and only then, might a closer, maybe, be your only spot remaining to eke out that last 1 or 2 extra wins, and if you really need those 1 or 2 wins, you might be advised to pay dearly for him.

I think Mr. Left One was primarily claiming that a closer has very strong value in the post-season. But, as we have been claiming, elite closers are ridiculous pieces for 100-loss teams.

Mama Hip Rockets · 03-19-2012, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliforniaChief

This.

Can someone do a Nancy Kerrigan on Jason Kendall before he gets any ideas?

DJ's left nut · 03-19-2012, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

No, not really. Many people rate closers so highly that a .500 team or a losing team is advised by their fans to keep him.

The marginal value of a great closer vs a pretty good or average closer is very, very low. However, if you are at 92 wins and you really need 93 or 94 wins to win your division, and you've pretty much maxed out your lineup and rotation, then and only then, might a closer, maybe, be your only spot remaining to eke out that last 1 or 2 extra wins, and if you really need those 1 or 2 wins, you might be advised to pay dearly for him.

And for most teams that make the post-season, 1 or 2 wins may make the difference. Further, once you're there, 1 or 2 wins is everything.

Though again, I disagree with you re: the net value of an elite closer being only 1 or 2 wins. Blown saves are cumulative; they can further tax your 'pen or just put your team in a funk for a day or 2.

The difference between an average closer and an elite one is about 4 games/season, IMO. I've seen it time and time again. The pre-izzy era Cardinals with Dave Veres were built to contend but blew game after game and by September just lost the drive. The 'bad izzy' Cardinals were the same way. The 2010 Cardinals were sputtering badly through August until Motte righted the ship and they exploded through September. When teams lose in the 9th, they simply struggle to drive through that wall that hits around game 120, when August and September seem interminable. More than any other sport, baseball is about being able to keep your edge through a grind of a season; when guys can't rely on their closer, they start to lose that edge. They stop fighting for 9 innings or through tie games. Again, it's just a cumulative effect that I've seen too many times on teams that I follow daily to simply think a blown save only counts as a single L.

Now as you've noted - if you have a mediocre team to begin with it's no big deal. But if you're an 88 win team with an average closer, being a 92 win team with a dynamite closer could be a massive difference. And hell, even if it's only 2 wins, the difference between 89 wins and 91 is night and day. When you're losing 95 games, 2 more doesn't matter, let alone 4. But when you're losing 75, those 2-4 games could be all the difference in the world.

And ultimately - shouldn't that always be the goal?

Mama Hip Rockets · 03-19-2012, 09:57 PM

I really don't understand why they would even contemplate the idea of Humberto Quintero. Career .234 hitter with .268 OBP and no power? How would that be any improvement over Pena/Ramirez/Pina?

OmahaChief · 03-20-2012, 06:03 AM

Looks like Soria done for the year per the KC Star.

The news on Royals closer Joakim Soria couldn’t be much worse. An examination Monday revealed “definite damage” in the ulnar collateral ligament in his right elbow and seems likely to require surgery.
General manager Dayton Moore acknowledged Soria might require reconstructive elbow surgery, commonly known as Tommy John surgery. Soria underwent that procedure in 2003 to replace the same ligament.
The need for another Tommy John procedure will likely be determined Tuesday when Soria undergoes a follow-up examination by Dr. Lewis Yocum, an elbow specialist, in Los Angeles.
“We’ll see what that reveals,” Moore said, “but maybe so. It’s unfortunate. Joakim is such a professional person, and he’s obviously hurting right now. Let’s hope for the best. If it needs reconstruction, let’s hope for a good outcome.”
Soria’s injury is the second major blow this spring to one of the Royals’ key players. Catcher Salvy Perez is expected to miss 12-14 weeks after undergoing surgery last Friday to repair torn cartilage in his left knee.
An injury to Soria, even last season, would have been a devastating blow, but the Royals believe they now have two viable alternatives to step in as their closer: Greg Holland and free-agent acquisition Jonathan Broxton.
Manager Ned Yost termed it “too early” to designate one as Soria’s replacement.
“They both can handle it,” Yost said. “We’ll think through it. It wasn’t a scenario I could foresee coming. So it’s going to take some time to think through it. We might use them both in that spot.”
Holland, 26, established himself last season as a potential closer by compiling a 1.80 ERA in 46 games. Broxton, 27, was an All-Star for the Dodgers in 2009 and 2010 but missed most of last season because of a sore elbow that required surgery in September.
“They’ve both looked great this spring,” Yost said. “We’ll give it time to play out. We could very well use both of them in that situation. I’ve got the confidence to use both of them.”
Soria, 27, was an All-Star in 2008 and 2010 but slumped a year ago to 5-5 with a 4.03 ERA in 60 appearances. He is making $6 million this season, and the Royals hold options for the next two seasons at $8 million and $8.75 million.
Those options include $750,000 buy-out clauses.
“It’s a definite blow,” Moore said. “We put our pitching staff together in the expectation that Joakim Soria would be our closer and pitch like his did prior to last year.”
Soria underwent a magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) exam Monday morning after exiting Sunday’s game against Cleveland because of increasing elbow pain in the last two of his 16 pitches. He was initially optimistic.
“I don’t feel it’s that bad,” he said, “because before the Tommy John surgery, all of my strength went away. This time, it hasn’t. So I don’t feel like it’s that.”
Even so, Soria raised growing concerns throughout the spring by allowing seven runs and 10 hits in 31/3 innings over three Cactus League appearances. He also surrendered three runs and six hits over two innings in a “B” game against Texas.
“When guys start to have problems,” Yost said, “the first thing that often goes is their command. Jack was throwing the ball with good velocity, but he just wasn’t the Jack that we’ve known.
“He didn’t feel any discomfort until (Sunday). But a lot of times, it’s like a volcano. You feel the seismic rumblings and then, all of a sudden, it blows. The ability not to command the ball like we know he can is the seismic rumbling.”

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2012/03/19...#storylink=cpy

Dr. Johnny Fever · 03-20-2012, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurman merman

Yeah, I don't get it. You would think that the fans of a franchise that has been so awful for so long would be a little more appreciative of the guy who has been their best player collectively over the last few years.

Who doesn't appreciate him and what he's done for us? I for one appreciate him very much. My point was we have arms now to cover his loss. Hence, his loss isn't the end of the world. I also said I hope he comes back strong.

AndChiefs · 03-20-2012, 08:47 AM

I'm just waiting for Hosmer and Moustakas to somehow run into each other on a pop-up and put each other out for the year. (Yes, I realize they play 1st and 3rd. I just assume that's our luck.)

Dr. Johnny Fever · 03-20-2012, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndChiefs

I'm just waiting for Hosmer and Moustakas to somehow run into each other on a pop-up and put each other out for the year. (Yes, I realize they play 1st and 3rd. I just assume that's our luck.)

Pop up to the mound, they both come in, Moustakas trips on the rubber tearing ligaments and falls into Hosmer head first breaking 4 of his ribs.

itcoodhapin

AndChiefs · 03-20-2012, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. noonanbeermefever

Pop up to the mound, they both come in, Moustakas trips on the rubber tearing ligaments and falls into Hosmer head first breaking 4 of his ribs.

itcoodhapin

One of the ribs pokes out and sends a splinter into Escobar's eye messing up his vision for life. May as well lose all three.

duncan_idaho · 03-20-2012, 09:34 AM

Tough to see that happen with Soria, but it's not a complete and total shock. "Elbow soreness" rarely is a good thing.

I don't think the book on him is closed - the option years they have for 2013 and 2014 are very, very reasonable - and I don't think he's necessarily "finished" as a player.

I still am skeptical about the trade returns for him a few years ago. I will never believe Jesus Montero was actually on the table (and the trade value they received for him - Cliff Lee was offered, five years of Michael Pineda was ultimately his value - backs that up) in a 1x1 swap.

Closer trade value is low unless you're working with a desperate team that needs a 9th inning hammer for a postseason run. It's tough to find a trade that brings back a part good enough to move the closer.

As for the Royals' bullpen options, they're still in pretty good shape.

Holland and Broxton have been discussed in detail. Crow will be in the mix as well. I think this punches Kelvin Herrerra's ticket to the big league club this year, and he will be an excellent option out of the pen, too. Louis Coleman hasn't been good in spring training, but he was awesome out of the pen a year again. Throw in two lefties (Teaford and Mijares/Collins), and that's still a deep pen that's a strength this season.

KevB · 03-20-2012, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndChiefs

One of the ribs pokes out and sends a splinter into Escobar's eye messing up his vision for life. May as well lose all three.

Meanwhile, Yuni was at 2nd and too slow to make a play on the ball. He stays clear of the damage and he's the only guy left to the play the infield.

Dr. Johnny Fever · 03-20-2012, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndChiefs

One of the ribs pokes out and sends a splinter into Escobar's eye messing up his vision for life. May as well lose all three.

Oh Royals....

sedated · 03-20-2012, 10:20 AM

Our bullpen might end up being okay, but it was nice to think that we could’ve essentially had 4 closers on the roster (assuming Crow went back to his 1st half of 2011 form). I absolutely loved the year we had Grienke, Riske, Soria, and Dotel back there.

**gblowfish** · 03-20-2012, 10:31 AM

I'd be perfectly OK with using Holland or Crow as closer. I think either guy would be fine.
If this is 2nd Tommy John for Soria, that's probably all she wrote.

03-19-2012, 09:57 PM	#1535
Mama Hip Rockets You don't faze me, Gobble. Join Date: Dec 2005 Casino cash: $9915644	I really don't understand why they would even contemplate the idea of Humberto Quintero. Career .234 hitter with .268 OBP and no power? How would that be any improvement over Pena/Ramirez/Pina?
Posts: 13,675

03-20-2012, 06:03 AM	#1536
OmahaChief Down with Nino Brown Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Omaha Casino cash: $9255000	Looks like Soria done for the year per the KC Star. The news on Royals closer Joakim Soria couldn’t be much worse. An examination Monday revealed “definite damage” in the ulnar collateral ligament in his right elbow and seems likely to require surgery. General manager Dayton Moore acknowledged Soria might require reconstructive elbow surgery, commonly known as Tommy John surgery. Soria underwent that procedure in 2003 to replace the same ligament. The need for another Tommy John procedure will likely be determined Tuesday when Soria undergoes a follow-up examination by Dr. Lewis Yocum, an elbow specialist, in Los Angeles. “We’ll see what that reveals,” Moore said, “but maybe so. It’s unfortunate. Joakim is such a professional person, and he’s obviously hurting right now. Let’s hope for the best. If it needs reconstruction, let’s hope for a good outcome.” Soria’s injury is the second major blow this spring to one of the Royals’ key players. Catcher Salvy Perez is expected to miss 12-14 weeks after undergoing surgery last Friday to repair torn cartilage in his left knee. An injury to Soria, even last season, would have been a devastating blow, but the Royals believe they now have two viable alternatives to step in as their closer: Greg Holland and free-agent acquisition Jonathan Broxton. Manager Ned Yost termed it “too early” to designate one as Soria’s replacement. “They both can handle it,” Yost said. “We’ll think through it. It wasn’t a scenario I could foresee coming. So it’s going to take some time to think through it. We might use them both in that spot.” Holland, 26, established himself last season as a potential closer by compiling a 1.80 ERA in 46 games. Broxton, 27, was an All-Star for the Dodgers in 2009 and 2010 but missed most of last season because of a sore elbow that required surgery in September. “They’ve both looked great this spring,” Yost said. “We’ll give it time to play out. We could very well use both of them in that situation. I’ve got the confidence to use both of them.” Soria, 27, was an All-Star in 2008 and 2010 but slumped a year ago to 5-5 with a 4.03 ERA in 60 appearances. He is making $6 million this season, and the Royals hold options for the next two seasons at $8 million and $8.75 million. Those options include $750,000 buy-out clauses. “It’s a definite blow,” Moore said. “We put our pitching staff together in the expectation that Joakim Soria would be our closer and pitch like his did prior to last year.” Soria underwent a magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) exam Monday morning after exiting Sunday’s game against Cleveland because of increasing elbow pain in the last two of his 16 pitches. He was initially optimistic. “I don’t feel it’s that bad,” he said, “because before the Tommy John surgery, all of my strength went away. This time, it hasn’t. So I don’t feel like it’s that.” Even so, Soria raised growing concerns throughout the spring by allowing seven runs and 10 hits in 31/3 innings over three Cactus League appearances. He also surrendered three runs and six hits over two innings in a “B” game against Texas. “When guys start to have problems,” Yost said, “the first thing that often goes is their command. Jack was throwing the ball with good velocity, but he just wasn’t the Jack that we’ve known. “He didn’t feel any discomfort until (Sunday). But a lot of times, it’s like a volcano. You feel the seismic rumblings and then, all of a sudden, it blows. The ability not to command the ball like we know he can is the seismic rumbling.” Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2012/03/19...#storylink=cpy
Posts: 3,620

03-20-2012, 08:47 AM	#1538
AndChiefs Bazinga! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Houston, TX Casino cash: $-1998180	I'm just waiting for Hosmer and Moustakas to somehow run into each other on a pop-up and put each other out for the year. (Yes, I realize they play 1st and 3rd. I just assume that's our luck.) __________________
Posts: 5,538

03-20-2012, 09:34 AM	#1541
duncan_idaho M-I-Z-Z-O-U Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $-1889692	Tough to see that happen with Soria, but it's not a complete and total shock. "Elbow soreness" rarely is a good thing. I don't think the book on him is closed - the option years they have for 2013 and 2014 are very, very reasonable - and I don't think he's necessarily "finished" as a player. I still am skeptical about the trade returns for him a few years ago. I will never believe Jesus Montero was actually on the table (and the trade value they received for him - Cliff Lee was offered, five years of Michael Pineda was ultimately his value - backs that up) in a 1x1 swap. Closer trade value is low unless you're working with a desperate team that needs a 9th inning hammer for a postseason run. It's tough to find a trade that brings back a part good enough to move the closer. As for the Royals' bullpen options, they're still in pretty good shape. Holland and Broxton have been discussed in detail. Crow will be in the mix as well. I think this punches Kelvin Herrerra's ticket to the big league club this year, and he will be an excellent option out of the pen, too. Louis Coleman hasn't been good in spring training, but he was awesome out of the pen a year again. Throw in two lefties (Teaford and Mijares/Collins), and that's still a deep pen that's a strength this season. __________________ "You gotta love livin', cause dying is a pain in the ass." ---- Sinatra
Posts: 22,321

03-20-2012, 10:31 AM	#1545
gblowfish Be Kind To Your Pets Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Glorious Independence, MO Casino cash: $16896178 VARSITY	I'd be perfectly OK with using Holland or Crow as closer. I think either guy would be fine. If this is 2nd Tommy John for Soria, that's probably all she wrote.
Posts: 41,011