Did Dave Toub get himself fired today?

[Mecca]

He told the media basically that Veach ****ed up cutting Lammons cause he was in the game plan. Basically complaining to the media about it..while having a god awful year.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by Wisconsin_Chief

I've been saying all week, they play dirty on and off the field.

The Chiefs better be willing to do the same.

Is that playing dirty or just being smart? I would hope the chiefs would do the same if a playoff opponent cut someone that weakens a phase of their team.

[IrishChief]

Originally Posted by Lzen

One could argue that ref calling Jones for unsportsmanlike cost us that game. Or the fact that the defense didn't stop them after that.

Exactly. We still had a chance to win that game on offense.

[mkp785]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

STs played a near perfect game vs LVR. How’d they do that if Toub is so bad at his job?

Stop making excuses already. You defend Toub too much. The game has passed him by and he needs to retire, or be retired. I just pray that he doesn't cost us a super bowl trip this weekend.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

To be fair, Toub said the plan was to kick it through the EZ every time and Butker didn't do it.

Maybe on the first long return I can buy that. Because that was clearly just a ball that Butker missed. It was low and flat with no carry; just a flat-ass awful kick.

The other long return? Nah, I truly don't believe it. That was clearly Butker trading distance for height. It was struck pure and was just like a dozen other times this year we've seen the kickoff make it to the 5 because we hung it up there to force a return.

I don't buy for a second that Butker just left the reservation and decided to do whatever he wanted. That was called from the sideline.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Maybe on the first long return I can buy that. Because that was clearly just a ball that Butker missed. It was low and flat with no carry; just a flat-ass awful kick.

The other long return? Nah, I truly don't believe it. That was clearly Butker trading distance for height. It was struck pure and was just like a dozen other times this year we've seen the kickoff make it to the 5 because we hung it up there to force a return.

I don't buy for a second that Butker just left the reservation and decided to do whatever he wanted. That was called from the sideline.

I'm not suggesting that Toub is blameless. I'm also not suggesting the Butker is blameless. I just don't think you can definitively say anything - we're not part of the huddle.

[Chiefnj2]

People blaming Toub might as well blame Andy.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Matt Cassel once threw for 469 yards and 4 touchdowns.

Must've meant he was a great QB afterall, eh?

Lol, you're making my point, in a way.

So, last season when the offense went into the toilet for a few weeks, were we all sitting here thinking Andy forgot how to run the offense? That Pat was a bad QB? Or did we understand that they'd get it figured out sooner rather than later?

And we can take further: the best statistical performance I can remember the offense ever having with Mahomes QBing was around 85% scoring rate/drive in one game. Anyone think that's sustainable over an entire season? Obviously not.

Over a season the best KC has done is about 68%. The average over the last 4 seasons is around 63%.

But against IND this season it was 30%.

Anyone at the time think KC is really just a 30% scoring efficiency offense?

the point here is that Toub's STs have had a bad season this year. But it's just one year, and it wasn't the entire year anyway. Someone on one of those podcasts figured out after week 18 just how many games the STs were actually below average, and it was 6-7 games. 6-7 were good or above average, and the other 3-4 were basically a net zero. That's not good, but it's not shit-ass awful either. It's just not up to the standard Toub has set for his unit, a standard that we've grown accustomed to because we're a little spoiled, tbh.

We're used to our returners ripping off a few big gainers (no one else is allowed to, but KC is supposed to get at least a couple a game, amirite?) We're used to Butker nailing 90% of his FGs, and especially all the most crucial ones. Our punters always stick the other team inside the 10. We're used to our STs making a big play, every other game or so. Et cetera and so on.

But this season it didn't happen that way, so now some people are butt-hurt, like Toub owes them something.

And against his career, it's literally an outlier, nothing more. Now, if STs has another bad season next year, then maybe you all have something to talk about. Right now, what we're talking about is an anomaly.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by mkp785

Stop making excuses already. You defend Toub too much. The game has passed him by and he needs to retire, or be retired. I just pray that he doesn't cost us a super bowl trip this weekend.

Lolz, the STs are on the field for maybe 10 snaps the entire game. The offense and defense are out there for around 130-150. If we lose because of one of those 10 snaps, we shouldn't be in the SB anyway.

And you have no idea whether the game has passed him by. Have you ever played/coached at the NFL level? Do you have some insider that's feeding you this nonsense of yours? Unless you're a member of the team, and have been for the last several years, you can't make that assumption. you're just making shit up, as you have been for weeks.

[dlphg9]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

People blaming Toub might as well blame Andy.

Ok I'll blame Andy, but the thing with Andy is that he does so many other things positive that I'm not gonna hold it against him. Andy does a few things I don't like, but that doesn't mean I want him fired or anything remotely close, because he's such a positive with everything else that I'll take some slightly annoying things from him.

Toub on the other hand has one job and if he can't succeed at that, then he's not contributing anything of value to the team, so people can call for his head.

[dlphg9]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Lolz, the STs are on the field for maybe 10 snaps the entire game. The offense and defense are out there for around 130-150. If we lose because of one of those 10 snaps, we shouldn't be in the SB anyway.

And you have no idea whether the game has passed him by. Have you ever played/coached at the NFL level? Do you have some insider that's feeding you this nonsense of yours? Unless you're a member of the team, and have been for the last several years, you can't make that assumption. you're just making shit up, as you have been for weeks.

That's really dumb, because of how close teams are in talent level. A bad ST play can absolutely determine the outcome of the game and if a missed XP loses a game or a long punt return that leads to a game winning FG, then that doesn't mean we shouldn't be in a SB. We're playing in the playoffs and all the teams are good.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by dlphg9

Ok I'll blame Andy, but the thing with Andy is that he does so many other things positive that I'm not gonna hold it against him. Andy does a few things I don't like, but that doesn't mean I want him fired or anything remotely close, because he's such a positive with everything else that I'll take some slightly annoying things from him.

Toub on the other hand has one job and if he can't succeed at that, then he's not contributing anything of value to the team, so people can call for his head.

There is no way in hell Andy and Toub are telling Butker to kick it short.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by dlphg9

That's really dumb, because of how close teams are in talent level. A bad ST play can absolutely determine the outcome of the game and if a missed XP loses a game or a long punt return that leads to a game winning FG, then that doesn't mean we shouldn't be in a SB. We're playing in the playoffs and all the teams are good.

So, if the offense is out there for 10 drives, and around 65 snaps (about their average for the season) and only scores 3 points, and the defense is out there for a similar numbers of drives/snaps and allow 14 points, we should blame the the STs for the loss because they allowed a big gain on a kick/punt that led to a score to make it 21-3?

Whether KC wins or loses will largely be on the offense and the defense, if only by virtue of the fact that both of those units will have dozens of opportunities to either succeed or fail, not whether we have one bad rep on STs. Get a grip.

Fwiw, I think STs will be good to great in this game, barring something dumb like very windy conditions that would mess with the kicking game. No one will give them or Toub any credit, but I think they'll play a good game.

[mkp785]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

So, if the offense is out there for 10 drives, and around 65 snaps (about their average for the season) and only scores 3 points, and the defense is out there for a similar numbers of drives/snaps and allow 14 points, we should blame the the STs for the loss because they allowed a big gain on a kick/punt that led to a score to make it 21-3?

Whether KC wins or loses will largely be on the offense and the defense, if only by virtue of the fact that both of those units will have dozens of opportunities to either succeed or fail, not whether we have one bad rep on STs. Get a grip.

Stop bringing up the offense. You're trying to make your points by circumventing the actual issue: Toub fell off this year. Big Time.

He almost lost us the game last week through his stupidity and arrogance. This is the exact same conversations that were had when CP was debating whether or not Sutton sucks....how did that end?

It doesn't matter how good he "may" have been previously. This team has put a lot of picks and talent on the field for Toub. How many other teams draft dudes soley for special teams? Maybe that's why we were so good. Now we don't have that luxury to waste picks like that. He needs to coach up what he has....or GTFO and let someone else younger who can.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

There is no way in hell Andy and Toub are telling Butker to kick it short.

In the past Toub HAS told him to kick it short and has been positively strident in his defense of same.

Yes, there's definitely a chance Toub is telling Butker to kick it short. He has a history of doing exactly that.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

In the past Toub HAS told him to kick it short and has been positively strident in his defense of same.

Yes, there's definitely a chance Toub is telling Butker to kick it short. He has a history of doing exactly that.

Except Toub pretty explicitly said that he told Butker to kick it deep. Why would he lie especially since Butker and probably the entire coaching staff would know he's lying?