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[ROYC75]

Discussion: All things Broncos.

[BroncoBuff]

Nice try dempsey, but no.

Most of that is just your opinions, angrily stated.

[BroncoBuff]

dempsey, how is it I have more casino cash than you?

i've only been 'round here a couple-three weeks ...

[TEX]

Originally Posted by BroncoBuff

dempsey, how is it I have more casino cash than you?

i've only been 'round here a couple-three weeks ...

Because you CHEATED, like Denver did when they violated the Salary Cap during their Super Bowl seasons.

[New World Order]

Originally Posted by BroncoBuff

Elway's stats definitely take some of the luster off Elway's career, but check this out:


Everybody knows Aaron Rodgers career stats are better than Elway's - significantly better in most every category: Comp.%, yards, TD passes, Ints, on and on. Yet it happens their career W-L records (reg season, updated this week) records are virtually identical:

Rodgers 150-83-1
Elway .. .148-82-1

15 starter yrs, Elway 10 Playoff apps
15 starter yrs, Rodgers 11 Playoff apps


PLAYOFF RECORDS
(each started 21 playoff games)

J.Elway ...14-7 ~ 5-1 Ch.Gs ~ 2-3 Super Bowls
Rodgers 11-10 ~ 1-4 Ch.Gs ~ 1-0 Super Bowls

Do the math:
Elway suffered 3 WC + Div playoff losses
Rodgers suffered 6 WC + Div playoff losses

Now. Making your Top 10 All-time lists ... who's the better Quarterback?

.

Rodgers was light years ahead of Elway and its not even close

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by BroncoBuff

Not sure about him crossing his arms, but he does look and somewhat sounds pretty worn out. Bo's only been in town four months officially, six months overall, and, like Manning, John of course would have to call ahead to clear a visit - otherwise their mere presence disrupts the fans, media, players and staff.

Popped into this thread on an old page, talking about John's all-time ranking and 1987 League MVP award. I've always wondered about that award, but looking here the answer seems obvious:



Rice and Montana split their vote.

The page or two where I popped in, and this page I think miss Elway's true accomplishments:

1) Day he retired, he had won more games, and started more SBs than any other QB
2) In 15 years as full-time starter, advanced to seven AFCCGs and 5 Super Bowls
3) Signed on as Broncos GM in 2011. In his third year, with eight offensive starters his own acquisitions, Broncos fielded the greatest offense in League history in 2013 (won AFCCG, lost SB)
4) Two years later, fielded an historic defense, all 11 starters and four subs w/ most snaps all Elway acquisitions, won SB.

.

I thought the horse man got "promoted upstairs"

Wouldn't he have access to the facility any time he wants?

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by brdempsey69

6)Is falsely labeled the 'comeback king', but Donktards aren't aware that Elway played in 100 games where his Donks trailed at the end of the 3rd QTR & Elway brought them from behind to win only 24 times under these conditions. That is 24% and ranks Elway 40th all-time percentage wise under those conditions, with Patrick Mahomes ranking 1st and Joe Montana ranks 5th. Add to that Elway's worst passing stats were in the 4th QTR.

Whoa! Sounds like he was the king of falling behind!

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by BroncoBuff

Elway's stats definitely take some of the luster off Elway's career, but check this out:


Everybody knows Aaron Rodgers career stats are better than Elway's - significantly better in most every category: Comp.%, yards, TD passes, Ints, on and on. Yet it happens their career W-L records (reg season, updated this week) records are virtually identical:

Rodgers 150-83-1
Elway .. .148-82-1

15 starter yrs, Elway 10 Playoff apps
15 starter yrs, Rodgers 11 Playoff apps


PLAYOFF RECORDS
(each started 21 playoff games)

J.Elway ...14-7 ~ 5-1 Ch.Gs ~ 2-3 Super Bowls
Rodgers 11-10 ~ 1-4 Ch.Gs ~ 1-0 Super Bowls

Do the math:
Elway suffered 3 WC + Div playoff losses
Rodgers suffered 6 WC + Div playoff losses

Now. Making your Top 10 All-time lists ... who's the better Quarterback?

.

Rodgers. Next question.

[BlackOp]

Let's revisit Horseace's path to all those SB blowout losses...

Here is the murderers row of post-season QBs he beat to get there...not a single HOF QB:

Bubby Brister 0 career probowls
Tony Eason 0 career probowls
Bernie Kosar 1 career Probowl (all three AFCCG Horseface wins were against this same guy)
Warren Moon...the most impressive QB Elway ever beat in the postseason...before cheating.
----------------------------------
Here are the QB that Horseface lost to in the playoffs (pre-cheating):

1983 31-7 loss Dave Krieg
1984 24-17 loss Mark Malone
1993 42-24 loss Jeff Hostetler
1992 10-7 loss Jim Kelly HOF
1996 30-27 loss Mark Brunell

He played one HOF QB, one time in his entire (pre-cheating) play-off career...and lost.

Fraud...benefited from a complete void of QB talent in the 80s. Bernie Kosar was his main obstacle...

[BroncoBuff]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

Rodgers. Next question.

But how do you get there?

Rodgers had SIX 'one-and-dones' in 11 Playoff appearances! 1-4 NFCCGs, one SB trip.

Not even close.

Unless you want to make the case that statistics are more important than playoff success. Good luck with that.

Originally Posted by BlackOp

Here is the murderers row of post-season QBs he beat to get there...not a single HOF QB:

Bubby Brister 0 career probowls
Tony Eason 0 career probowls
Bernie Kosar 1 career Probowl (all three AFCCG Horseface wins were against this same guy)
Warren Moon...the most impressive QB Elway ever beat in the postseason...before cheating.

I reject your 'QB vs QB' test as anything remotely like a valid barometer of Elway's, or anybody's, success. Besides, you can only play next team up, that's how the playoffs work.

I also do not accept your "cheater" label, at least not to the extent it invalidates legitimate game and playoff results. The NFL levied serious fines for the violations, the NFL also legitimized all the SB results, regardless how much you obsessive Broncos haters continue in obsessive disagreement.

As much as I reject your 'QB vs QB' test, here's a list of QBs John vanquished his last two seasons... HEY! Look close! There's TWO Hall-of-Famers on this list - oh boy oh boy!

Mark Brunell
Elvis Grbac
Kordell Stewart
Brett Favre
Dan Marino
Vinnie Testaverde
Chris Chandler

[BroncoBuff]

Originally Posted by RealSNR

I thought the horse man got "promoted upstairs"

Wouldn't he have access to the facility any time he wants?

He was listed only as a "Consultant" until Wal-Mart bought the team. As of the sale, John no longer has any official relationship with the Broncos. I think it's Elway's doing, not the team ... after his over-the-top wild success his first six years as GM, I think his QB and head coach whiffs the next five really hit him hard. Just a guess though.

The "call ahead rule" was put in place by Shanahan, who rightly noted John "takes all the air out of the room" when he walks in. The rule applies (or did apply before Wal-Mart and Sean Payton) to Manning too, who also lives in Denver, and took a somewhat active role mentoring Drew Lock.
.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by BroncoBuff

But how do you get there?

Rodgers had SIX 'one-and-dones' in 11 Playoff appearances! 1-4 NFCCGs, one SB trip.

Not even close.

Unless you want to make the case that statistics are more important than playoff success. Good luck with that.

We're judging QBs solely by the team's playoff record now?

So Elway wasn't even close to Mahomes' level? And Marino sucked?

Where will he move the goalposts next...

Originally Posted by BroncoBuff

I reject your 'QB vs QB' test as anything remotely like a valid barometer of Elway's, or anybody's, success. Besides, you can only play next team up, that's how the playoffs work.

I also do not accept your "cheater" label, at least not to the extent it invalidates legitimate game and playoff results. The NFL levied serious fines for the violations, the NFL also legitimized all the SB results, regardless how much you obsessive Broncos haters continue in obsessive disagreement.

As much as I reject your 'QB vs QB' test, here's a list of QBs John vanquished his last two seasons... HEY! Look close! There's TWO Hall-of-Famers on this list - oh boy oh boy!

Mark Brunell
Elvis Grbac
Kordell Stewart
Brett Favre
Dan Marino
Vinnie Testaverde
Chris Chandler

The same guy who tells us that KC's early success isn't noteworthy because the AFC was the "minor leagues" also rejects the idea that competition matters. Go figure.

Of course, the "minor league" argument makes no sense anyway, seeing as the AFC dominated the Super Bowl in the early years. If there were a minor league period for the AFC, it would obviously be when the AFC lost 15 of 16 SBs, including three Elway beatdowns by an average of 30+ points. But something tells me you won't accept that.

You can't pretend to be the rational voice in the room when all you do is pick and choose whatever fits your argument, with zero consistency from one take to the next.

Of course competition matters. Only a dope would argue otherwise. Facing Allen, Burrow and/or Brady every year is slightly different than facing Kosar, Brister and Tony Eason.

[BlackOp]

Originally Posted by BroncoBuff

I also do not accept your "cheater" label,

Of course you dont...a Donktard would never let reality get in the way. It's why you are still defending them...the only other option is admitting what everybody outside of Denver already knows....that Elway never won a legitimate SB and only by paying Davis under the table were the Donks able to pull off the grift. Davis was the reason those teams happened...not Horseface...he was just hanging on at that point.

He tried 3 times on the up and up and got smoked off the field in humiliating fashion.

Retirement was looming and he knew (to his credit) that he wasn't good enough...and needed a trophy, by any means, to cement his career.

Is what it is...

[brdempsey69]

Originally Posted by BlackOp

Of course you dont...a Donktard would never let reality get in the way. It's why you are still defending them...the only other option is admitting what everybody outside of Denver already knows....that Elway never won a legitimate SB and only by paying Davis under the table were the Donks able to pull off the grift. Davis was the reason those teams happened...not Horseface...he was just hanging on at that point.

He tried 3 times on the up and up and got smoked off the field in humiliating fashion.

Retirement was looming and he knew (to his credit) that he wasn't good enough...and needed a trophy, by any means, to cement his career.

Is what it is...

And everyone knows that Davis racked up his massive rushing numbers behind a O-Line that got away with massive holding, illegal chop-blocks (just ask Dallas DT Chad Hennings about it), leg-whips & as we know wearing Vaseline on their jerseys. These tactics were taught to them by an O-Line coach named Alex Gibbs. The Donks rode the coat-tails of this in 1997 & 1998 and Elway was just along for the ride.

Everybody saw what happened in 1999 when the Donks had to play under the same rules as all the other teams and their O-Line no longer was getting away with these tactics. Davis got the living hell beaten out of him and didn't last beyond 4 games and Davis' career was essentially over.

Anyone can go to YouTube and watch a 2004 game between Falcons-Chiefs and see that Alex Gibbs was the O-Line coach for the Falcons & trying to employ those same dirty tactics (shout out to Chiefs LB Shawn Barber for retaliating when the Falcons O-Lineman tried it on him early in the contest), but they got flagged for it and it just so happens in the 1st QTR of that game announcers Curt Menefee and Tim Green make reference to Alex Gibbs employing those same dirty tactics in Donkeytown.

Elway was only good to a point & was clearly 2nd-tier.