Let's Talk About Nagy's Playcalling

[Bowser]

I think we can all agree that our offense has been "off" all season, minus the Bears and Chargers games. Mahomes hasn't looked himself by and large, and that could well be because of the talent around him, but watching the plays unfold just makes me wonder why some of the plays are being called in the first place.

Today was an abomination on many fronts with the offense but it sure looked a good deal like an Alex Smith game plan, minus Mahomes' patented making something out of nothing scramble drill passes. The run plays were predictable and getting nothing, but they kept forcing them. We threw the ball laterally as much as horizontally (seemingly), and the plays themselves just look, well, off.

Is it Nagy, is it Mahomes, is it the talent outside of Mahomes and Kelce, or is it a combination of all that? Or was this game just an outlier and our annual piss down our legs game as has been suggested, and I'm just OMG-ing for no good reason?

Something FEELS different than in the past so far this season. I would love to put my finger on what it is, precisely.

[Sassy Squatch]

You know who Nagy is strikingly similar to? Daboll. They've followed almost exactly the same career path, except Daboll was the head man in charge of developing Allen and actually won a playoff game
Other than that nearly identical. First season as head Coach they win Coach of the Year and make the playoffs while dragging decent seasons out of subpar QBs. Then they both declined until the bottom fell out.

[RunKC]

Well yeah. A good QB changes everything. Look at Andy without Mahomes, Tomlin without Big Ben, Belichick without Brady.

Being stuck with losers like Trubisky, Jones and Fields isn’t gonna help any coach succeed. That’s just the way it is.

[Sassy Squatch]

Reid had a plethora of success pre Mahomes. He just never won a Championship. Effectively Kyle Shanahan.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Didn't Nagy take CHI to the playoffs with Trubiscuit? The same Trubiscuit that everyone now knows isn't a starting-caliber QB, and is now in fact sitting on a bench somewhere?


Not saying Nagy will be a great HC, but he might not be as bad as some people think.

The Bears have made the playoffs 5 times in the last 2 decades. Two of those appearances were under Nagy. The fact that people think he "failed" there just shows they don't watch the Bears.

Nagy also gets a bad rap because people incorrectly blame him for the offense' struggles. Andy Reid calls the plays. Everybody fellates Bienemy but the guy has had exactly zero success outside of KC.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by RunKC

If we are going to blow Doug for a short stint with Foles, then it should be pointed out that Nagy was here for Alex Smith and Patrick Mahomes best seasons (yes 2022 was Mahomes best year all things considered).

Sorry, I somehow didn’t reply to your comment correctly. Was thinking about other stuff.


Anyway, if you look at Pederson’s record with PHI, overall, he was pretty good. Was he spectacular? No, but he had a winning regular season record (42-37) as well as a winning playoff record (4-2) in PHI. And a SB victory with a backup QB under center.

And he did that With one of the worst decision making QBs in recent history in Carson Wentz. Who also was inconsistently available (played just 2 complete seasons in PHI) with all of his self-induced injuries.

So, no, I’m not blowing Doug over four games. I’m blowing him over his relatively successful 5 yrs in PHI and finding ways to adapt and overcome some pretty significant issues at the most important position in football.

[Sassy Squatch]

Well, he also inherited Fangio and subsequently the leagues best defense that year. Under 18 PPG allowed.

Oh, and folks think he failed there because of all the shit that came out about how much of an arrogant shitheel he was, how he lost the locker room, and how he completely failed to adapt his offense to any of his QBs. Trubisky, Dalton, Foles, Fields. All the same scheme.

By comparison Reid successfully adapted his offense around backup QBs midseason like Feeley, Garcia, Kolb, Foles, and Henne, just to name a few.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

The Bears have made the playoffs 5 times in the last 2 decades. Two of those appearances were under Nagy. The fact that people think he "failed" there just shows they don't watch the Bears.

Nagy also gets a bad rap because people incorrectly blame him for the offense' struggles. Andy Reid calls the plays. Everybody fellates Bienemy but the guy has had exactly zero success outside of KC.

Yeah Reid calls the plays but Nagy handled the game planning and the detail stuff during the week. The fact that Mahomes is talking about how he just goes off his presnap reads and eliminates routes before the play even starts to me says there's some bad coaching going on. It might not be Nagy but him becoming OC lines up PERFECTLY to Mahomes regression. We had Juju and MVS in 2022 and the offense was amazing so I'm not buying that Mahomes is playing bad because of the weapons etc .

[KCUnited]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Didn't Nagy take CHI to the playoffs with Trubiscuit? The same Trubiscuit that everyone now knows isn't a starting-caliber QB, and is now in fact sitting on a bench somewhere?


Not saying Nagy will be a great HC, but he might not be as bad as some people think.

Bears had the #1 defense in the league both years Nagy went to the playoffs

Once that went away, so did he

Definitely not saying he can't coach or is the problem, but he was carried by the defense in Chicago and now carries water for Andy Reid

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by -King-

Yeah Reid calls the plays but Nagy handled the game planning and the detail stuff during the week.

Cannot believe people actually believe this stuff

Andy runs this team. He has more than 50% say what this offense does. You are insane if you think Andy isn’t deciding game planning and play calls.

[KCUnited]

He’s also supposed to be the Mahomes whisperer who isn’t looking great

Again I’m just saying, like every other Andy coordinator, there’s nothing definitive to deduce

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by -King-

Yeah Reid calls the plays but Nagy handled the game planning and the detail stuff during the week. The fact that Mahomes is talking about how he just goes off his presnap reads and eliminates routes before the play even starts to me says there's some bad coaching going on. It might not be Nagy but him becoming OC lines up PERFECTLY to Mahomes regression. We had Juju and MVS in 2022 and the offense was amazing so I'm not buying that Mahomes is playing bad because of the weapons etc .

So EB was a brilliant game planner?

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by -King-

Yeah Reid calls the plays but Nagy handled the game planning and the detail stuff during the week. The fact that Mahomes is talking about how he just goes off his presnap reads and eliminates routes before the play even starts to me says there's some bad coaching going on. It might not be Nagy but him becoming OC lines up PERFECTLY to Mahomes regression. We had Juju and MVS in 2022 and the offense was amazing so I'm not buying that Mahomes is playing bad because of the weapons etc .

You know what else lines up perfectly? Kingsley starting the season as LT1.


And the bit about eliminating routes off the presnap read is part and parcel of what good/great QBs do every weekend. I've heard numerous stories from both Manning and Brady talking about doing the same exact thing every game. And I'm sure many CPers have heard the same stories, so it's not like it's a big secret.

Once the script is played out, the OC sends in the plays, but the QB is supposed to make the final decisions at the line before the snap. The playcall is just a guideline or a suggestion. It's called commanding the offense.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Cannot believe people actually believe this stuff

Andy runs this team. He has more than 50% say what this offense does. You are insane if you think Andy isn’t deciding game planning and play calls.

Based on everything I've been reading/watching, Nagy, in this case, drafts a gameplan that he presents to Andy at the beginning of the week. Then he and Andy both tweak/edit it. Then Nagy does the install. Then Andy calls the plays in the game.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by tredadda

So EB was a brilliant game planner?

I know that players and coaches talked about how detail oriented he was when he was coaching and I know that the chiefs are making more mistakes than ever on offense and players are constantly on different pages.

Maybe it's just a big coincidence he left, Nagy became the OC and all of a sudden the offense fell off the face of the earth despite similar talent. Or maybe Patrick forgot how to be an elite QB. Highly doubt that though. But there was a distinct change in the offense after 2022 and Nagy is the most significant of those changes.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

You know what else lines up perfectly? Kingsley starting the season as LT1.


And the bit about eliminating routes off the presnap read is part and parcel of what good/great QBs do every weekend. I've heard numerous stories from both Manning and Brady talking about doing the same exact thing every game. And I'm sure many CPers have heard the same stories, so it's not like it's a big secret.

Once the script is played out, the OC sends in the plays, but the QB is supposed to make the final decisions at the line before the snap. The playcall is just a guideline or a suggestion. It's called commanding the offense.

Huh? You have primary reads and secondary reads. You don't flat out eliminate routes based on presnap. Defenses disguise the **** out of their coverage these days. What he thinks is going to happen presnap could be 100% different than what actually happens post snap. A corner could also just get beat or fall or **** up somehow leaving a WR open. Even Mahomes acknowledges he has to stop doing that.