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Old 04-26-2024, 07:20 PM  
Dante84 Dante84 is offline
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*****The Kingsley Suamataia Thread*****
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Old 02-28-2025, 09:54 AM   #1366
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No we don't.

One was a late 2nd. One was a late 3rd. One was a UDFA. A couple others were 3rd day picks.

And they're in their first or 2nd years.

Morris, as a late 3rd rounder, has FAR exceeded what one could've reasonably expected from a player taken at that point. The fact that he was able to provide credible performances in about 80% of his NFL starts is pretty damn impressive. The fact that he's started at all in meaningful games for a contender as a rookie/soph is also a feather in his cap.

Methinks you've missed my point there entirely.

Expecting ANY of these guys to excel was folly. They weren't blue chippers. They weren't given training wheels. They were all flawed prospects, some of them are fringe NFL guys at best, who were thrown to the fire.

No, we don't have to wonder why they haven't been superlative. We have to wonder why we ever thought they should have been.
Disagree, Alaric Jackson was UDFA and he is a favorite to bring in thru FA and finally fix the LT position, that is until our coaches get ahold of him and probably screw him up, too. I think THERE IS an expectation that some of these picks need to be showing positive development.

If it was just the one pick like Morris, a 3rd rounder, not developing that could be defensible, but adding Kingsley, a 2nd rounder, another pick we spent chasing the LT position and not really developing, ultimately these 2nd and 3rd round picks not seeing the field is starting to take a toll.
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Old 02-28-2025, 09:59 AM   #1367
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I think people were a bit shocked by just how raw he was.

But I think that's because they (and me as well) forgot what exactly 'raw' looks like. I mean we talk about a 'raw' prospect and we refer back to Eric Fisher and Branden Albert -- two guys who were premium OL prospects. Those guys weren't 'raw' -- they just weren't finished yet.

It's been a looooooooong time since we've really watched a good but not elite prospect with genuinely poor technique try to learn against professionals. We thought we'd see the Eric Fisher development path and forget that Fisher went 60 spots ahead of where Kingsley did for a reason.

And honestly....I kinda wonder if Reid didn't do the same thing and that's why Kingsley got so little help and then such a fast hook.

I've had 6 dogs in my adult life. I'm good at 'em. I know what they are and what they aren't. I know what I'm in for. But I'll tell ya what, every time I get a new puppy it's the same thing -- "Dammit, I forgot what a pain in the ass these things are for the first 4 months!" Years and years of experience with 'em, plenty of knowledge and ultimately an innate awareness of what I'm in for -- it STILL doesn't fully register until you're actually doing it again.

The Kingsley saga is what developing an OT looks like more often than not. I think the fans forgot and I think Reid kinda fumbled it a bit because he maybe forgot as well. He's had a lot of dogs - he's been through this before. But he still wasn't ready for this one to shit on his bed and eat the baseball glove he spent 20 years breaking in.

Kingsley wasn't a bad puppy -- Andy just forgot that they're a pain in the ass sometimes.
It’s just a damn hard position to play and someone as technical and good as Joe Thuney proved that.

Garrett Bolles was Denver’s Eric Fisher. They wanted him gone he was struggling so bad. John Elway himself purposefully criticized him to the media and they even declined his 5th year option. That’s how much he struggled.

Kolton Miller was a catastrophe his first year. Fans wanted him benched. Most sacks and pressures by a LT his rookie year.

It just shows how difficult it is gonna be for us. A Rashawn Slater or Joe Alt isn’t attainable for us unless (God forbid) Mahomes gets injured.

I’d like to see them try Kingsley at LT again in camp at the very least but it feels like they have decided to move him to G permanently.
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Old 02-28-2025, 10:09 AM   #1368
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I’d like to see them try Kingsley at LT again in camp at the very least but it feels like they have decided to move him to G permanently.
Huh? Trey is coming back. So is Thuney. What guard position are you putting him in 2026? His 3rd year.

He can be better as a RT in 2026. Hopefully.
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Old 02-28-2025, 10:14 AM   #1369
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It’s just a damn hard position to play and someone as technical and good as Joe Thuney proved that.

Garrett Bolles was Denver’s Eric Fisher. They wanted him gone he was struggling so bad. John Elway himself purposefully criticized him to the media and they even declined his 5th year option. That’s how much he struggled.

Kolton Miller was a catastrophe his first year. Fans wanted him benched. Most sacks and pressures by a LT his rookie year.

It just shows how difficult it is gonna be for us. A Rashawn Slater or Joe Alt isn’t attainable for us unless (God forbid) Mahomes gets injured.

I’d like to see them try Kingsley at LT again in camp at the very least but it feels like they have decided to move him to G permanently.
If TRUE Kingsley is now a projected Guard backup that is another high rd draft pick wasted that is not seeing the field. Add this to the 1st rounder for FAU and Skyy's second round pick, this is really getting costly.

Alaric Jackson being an UDFA proves that there is considerable value out there outside the 1st round for tackles we just have to spot this stuff and develop it, everything else is just excuses.
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Old 02-28-2025, 10:22 AM   #1370
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Originally Posted by GordonGekko View Post
If TRUE Kingsley is now a projected Guard backup that is another high rd draft pick wasted that is not seeing the field. Add this to the 1st rounder for FAU and Skyy's second round pick, this is really getting costly.

Alaric Jackson being an UDFA proves that there is considerable value out there outside the 1st round for tackles we just have to spot this stuff and develop it, everything else is just excuses.
As of right now the 2023 class is looking ****ing brutal. Rice is the only player you can comfortably pencil in as a contributor right now and he's a ****ing imbecile with a suspension pending and rehabbing a knee injury to boot.

FAU breaking out would lessen the sting a great deal but from what I've seen that glacial get off of his is still a massive problem.
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Old 02-28-2025, 10:32 AM   #1371
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FAU is a turd. Need to accept it and move on.
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Old 02-28-2025, 10:44 AM   #1372
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FAU is a turd. Need to accept it and move on.
Missing on 1st rounders, even at 32 always bites you in the ass later.
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Old 02-28-2025, 12:53 PM   #1373
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Originally Posted by GordonGekko View Post
If TRUE Kingsley is now a projected Guard backup that is another high rd draft pick wasted that is not seeing the field. Add this to the 1st rounder for FAU and Skyy's second round pick, this is really getting costly.

Alaric Jackson being an UDFA proves that there is considerable value out there outside the 1st round for tackles we just have to spot this stuff and develop it, everything else is just excuses.
Time will tell, but I have no issue with Kingsley as the swing tackle, and backup guard next season. The kid is 21 years old. It takes time.

I thought it was telling that KC decided to play Kingsley at LG instead of RG against Denver. Might be eyeing him as Thuney’s eventual replacement vs Trey’s.

Also…the Alaric Jackson’s of the world are few and far between.
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Old 02-28-2025, 01:18 PM   #1374
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Missing on 1st rounders, even at 32 always bites you in the ass later.
People actually disagree with us on this. I don’t know what they see, and I like to see KSU do well.
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Old 02-28-2025, 01:35 PM   #1375
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FAU is a turd. Need to accept it and move on.
He's a disappointment but he'll survive his rookie deal here and may even latch on as rotational depth here or somewhere else when it's over.

I think he's an NFL player. That's not enough for a 1st rounder but 'turd' is perhaps an overstatement.
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Old 02-28-2025, 04:50 PM   #1376
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Time will tell, but I have no issue with Kingsley as the swing tackle, and backup guard next season. The kid is 21 years old. It takes time.

I thought it was telling that KC decided to play Kingsley at LG instead of RG against Denver. Might be eyeing him as Thuney’s eventual replacement vs Trey’s.

Also…the Alaric Jackson’s of the world are few and far between.
I had the same thoughts about Kingsley at LG.
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Old 02-28-2025, 05:31 PM   #1377
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FAU has actually made some nice plays in playoff games. Tackles for loss, etc. Had one or two last year even though we barely played him at all.

No, that's not worth a first round pick, but he's not some massive bust and a bum who just can't play in this league.
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Old 02-28-2025, 05:36 PM   #1378
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FAU has actually made some nice plays in playoff games. Tackles for loss, etc. Had one or two last year even though we barely played him at all.

No, that's not worth a first round pick, but he's not some massive bust and a bum who just can't play in this league.
The only two early picks by Veach that were complete “non-NFL caliber” busts were Speaks and Moore.

The Chiefs even managed to squeeze production out of CEH before the wheels fell off there.

Really not a bad batting average. Homeruns like McDuffie, Karlaftis, Rice, and Worthy help a lot too.
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Old 02-28-2025, 09:07 PM   #1379
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There’s plenty of Guards who were drafted outside the first and second round starting around the league. Wish Andy would do like he had to do with Bob Sutton and make the tough decision and get Heck out of here. If not one of these guys can take a guard spot, that’s either very poor drafting, or developing.
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Old 02-28-2025, 09:35 PM   #1380
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People want Heck fired? For what? Bc he didn’t develop a raw 21 year old as a rookie?

Man took a Canadian Dr and molded him into a solid G. Same with Allegretti, who got paid. Developed Eric Fisher. Developed Wylie from a G to RT and he got paid. Now he developed Creed Humphrey and Trey Smith.

And we…want him fired? You guys okay?
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