Royals 2013 Kansas City Royals Repository Thread - Page 409

duncan_idaho · 10:01 AM

Proposed 2013 Slogan: Tigers: They're what's for dinner
Actual 2013 Slogan: Come to Play
A better, more accurate, or alternative slogan: All in, no panic, we promise.

Dayton Moore has pushed all his chips in and is riding on King/Jack suited, hoping it comes together, he gets some good luck, and he hits the nuts by the river card. There's potential, oh yes, there's potential. There's also risk.

At the midway point, Dayton is left counting on the river card. The flop and turn didn't help him, and he's looking at the Tigers holding a pair of Queens and the Indians holding a pair of 9s. His 2013 plan hasn't failed - yet - but the odds are not in his favor.

Burning questions updates below.

Burning Questions for 2013:

1) Will the improve rotation be improved enough? Does James Shields pitch like a fringe No. 1 away from Tampa Bay? Does Ervin Santana pitch to his highest upside in his walk year? Can Jeremy Guthrie build on his strong performance as a Royal in 2012? Can Wade Davis bring his new mentality- and velocity - back to the rotation?

Midseason check-in: Yes, the rotation is certainly improved enough. Shields has pitched like a fringe No. 1 and Santana is having his best season. Guthrie has horrible peripherals but has continued to perform well at his home park and eat innings on the road. Davis brought neither his kick-ass mentality or improved velocity back to the rotation and is in Luke Hochevar/Hiram Davies territory.

2) When will Luke Hochevar be shown the door?
Midseason check-in: It appears, never, at this point. Hochevar has been solid in non-leverage situations, though pretty much every time he has been used with men on base in an inning, it has been a disaster.

3) Does Hosmer bounce back?
Midseason check-in: It took some time, but Hosmer's performance from June 1 on is probably the most encouraging thing about the 2013 season so far.
4) Can Moustakas hit for a whole season like he did in the first half of 2012?
Midseason check-in: Nope. Moustakas was god-awful, then great for about 3 weeks, then god-awful again. He has been better since he started working with Brett and Grafol but still has a long way to go.
5) Who regresses?
Midseason check-in: Welp, Alicides Escobar is not a surprising name here (though Yost's stubborn insistence on hitting him second is ridiculous). Billy Butler is a surprise. He isn't having a terrible year - still contributing a lot to the offense - but he's not hitting for the average or power he has displayed over the past several years.
6) Who plays 2B?
Midseason check-in: A whole bunch of people, and not that great. Gio is at least getting a shot, though he once again is not doing much with it.
7) Can Jeff Francoeur be at least replacement level, rather than epic horrible level?
Midseason check-in: Hahahahahahahahahahaha
8) Will Dayton Moore survive to see 2014?
Midseason check-in: Outlook uncertain. Probably still around, unless the team completely tanks in the second half and he does something foolish. My guess - he sacrifices Ned Yost this offseason and gets one more shot with a new manager in 2014.
9) Will Danny Duffy come back healthy? And if he does, is he the same, better or worse?
Midseason check-in: Yes. Velocity looks the same, and it looks likely he is the same guy as before.
10) And the big one: Has KC added enough to run down the big-money Detroit Tigers?
Midseason check-in: Doesn't look like it, does it?

**DeezNutz** · 06-22-2013, 03:23 PM

The fact that we care about pitching prospects is embarrassing. We move Wil ****ing Myers, yet even give a second thought to moving the likes of 145 lb. Ventura? Yeah...

Get a ****ing legit bat.

tomahawk kid · 06-22-2013, 03:35 PM

This 'baseball team' has more vaginas than the GD Playboy mansion.

Sure-Oz · 06-22-2013, 03:36 PM

I would trade for Stanton with all those guys, some wouldn't. Royals need a guy that will hit 30+ hrs soon. Butler is not a cleanup guy even in his prime season last year. More like a 3

TambaBerry · 06-22-2013, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sure-Oz

I would trade for Stanton with all those guys, some wouldn't. Royals need a guy that will hit 30+ hrs soon. Butler is not a cleanup guy even in his prime season last year. More like a 3

There is just no threat to the other team to not walk Butler.

CaliforniaChief · 06-22-2013, 03:40 PM

We've banked on the hope of prospects for 20 + years. And that has gotten us next to jack squat.

I would absolutely do that deal now. Stanton is a proven stud who would add punch to this lineup and put people in the seats.

1. Gordon (LF)
2. Hosmer (1B)
3. Butler (DH)
4. Stanton (RF)
5. Perez (C)
6. Moose (3B)
7. Cain (CF)
8. Giavotella (2B)
9. Escobar (SS)

Sure-Oz · 06-22-2013, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tambaberry

There is just no threat to the other team to not walk Butler.

Pretty sure everyone is working around him constantly and no protection will cause the #'s he has. His OBP is really high atleast i guess

**DeezNutz** · 06-22-2013, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliforniaChief

We've banked on the hope of prospects for 20 + years. And that has gotten us next to jack squat.

I would absolutely do that deal now. Stanton is a proven stud who would add punch to this lineup and put people in the seats.

1. Gordon (LF)
2. Hosmer (1B)
3. Butler (DH)
4. Stanton (RF)
5. Perez (C)
6. Moose (3B)
7. Cain (CF)
8. Giavotella (2B)
9. Escobar (SS)

Exactly.

"Pitching prospects" are acquired to trade. Legit position prospects, such as Myers, well...one has to hope that those bear fruit. But, anyway.

We need to make a move for a player like Stanton. If that means our top 4-5 prospects. So what? "Mortgage the farm"? And? What has the farm meant thus far?

We're worried about a couple of "pitching prospects"? A 17-year-old? Please.

duncan_idaho · 06-22-2013, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

To get Stanton, Rany thinks it would take the following:

Ventura, Zimmer, Mondessi, and Cuthbert.

Done. Done. Done. Mother****ing done. "Prospects." **** 'em all.

I would do it, and not think twice about it. I would probably try to see if I could get away with offering Orlando Calixte and another prospect instead of Mondesi, but that wouldn't be a stopping point.

Thing is, I'm not sure Ventura+Mondesi+Zimmer+Cuthbert would be enough. Stanton's value is, by all accounts, higher than that of Miguel Cabrera when the Marlins traded him, and that is a lesser package than what was given up for Cabrera.

It would leave the Royals pitching depth slim after the 2014 season, but you know what? Acquire Stanton, win some real games, and you might actually have a chance to re-sign James Shields after 2014.

Even without Ventura and Zimmer, the Royals' farm system would not be devoid of pitching talent.

Chris Dwyer
Danny Duffy
Miguel Almonte (who some think is equivalent to Zimmer, anyway)
Kyle Smith
Angel Baez
Bryan Brickhouse
Sean Manaea
John Lamb

And as for positional talent...

Jorge Bonifacio
Orlando Calixte
Hunter Dozier
Bubba Starling

That's probably STILL a top 1/2 farm system. And you don't have many needs at the MLB level until the 2015 season. 1B, LF, CF, RF, 4th OF, C, SS, all have clear options in place, as does DH. YOu're set in the bullpen for quite a while in terms of major pieces. 2B, 3B, and SP are your only potential questions.

Emptying out the farm system for young studs like Stanton with years of control remaining is not a bad thing, at all.

Gordon
Hosmer
Butler
Stanton

would be a pretty strong top 4 and create a LOT of runs. Stanton would make the Royals a legitimate contender in 2014, even if they can't bring back Ervin Santana (they'll have enough cash to bring in a quality SP, though). And if this team starts winning... and filling the ballpark... who knows what happens in terms of payroll?

2015 pitching staff would be the question. You're looking at...

1) VACANT (Unless you can extend Shields for a few seasons)
2) Danny Duffy (you hope)
3) Jeremy Guthrie (you hope he's slotted no higher than here)
4) FILLED BY a Pitching Prospect
5) Filled by a Pitching Prospect

Lot of question marks there. Best-case scenario would be Manaea getting healthy and zooming through the minors, because he has legitimate TOR ability. Almonte also has premium shelf ability, and Lamb did at one time (he has shown signs here and there of getting all the way back but hasn't done it yet). The rest of those guys are more back-end starters.

Stanton has transformational potential for this team. That's why the cost is so high and that's why so many teams will chase him. But if he were brought in and this was the 2014 lineup:

LF - Alex Gordon
1B - Eric Hosmer
DH - Billy Butler
RF - Mike Stanton
C - Sal Perez
2B - Kelly Johnson/other acquisition
CF - Cain
3B - Moustakas
SS - Escobar

You're talking about a real, legitimate, playoff-caliber lineup. They'd need to find a lefthanded stick at 2B that can legitimately hit 6, which makes Johnson a PERFECT fit. If moustakas doesn't show signs of life this year, you also need a solution there, which Johnson could be (insurance for suck from Moose). If Moustakas did show life, you're probably looking at him in the 6 hole as a beginning-of-year "plan."

Gordon and Stanton controlled through 2016
Hosmer, Cain and Moustakas through 2017
Butler through 2015
Perez and Escobar through 2019

You'd have Bonifacio and Calixte and Dozier probably knocking on the door in 2015.

Ultimately, it probably makes too much sense. ANd the Royals probably don't have enough NEAR-MLB talent to get it done.

DJ's left nut · 06-22-2013, 05:08 PM

There is almost no package of prospects that could be put together that the Royals or virtually any team in baseball should say no to in order to acquire Mike Stanton. I'm a Cardinal homer, obviously, but I think they may be the only team who would be in a position where they should decline if the Rangers come ask for prospects 1-4 (Miller, Tavares, Martinez, Adams).

A healthy Mike Stanton is truly at the level of Harper, Machado and almost Trout in terms of game-changing ability. And people forget that he's still only 23.

He is soooooo damn good. And I really think he's tapped into about 2/3 of his potential at this point. If there's a 60 HR hitter presently in major league baseball, it's him (though I think he's probably a 50 HR hitter).

And ever so slowly, his plate discipline is improving.

If he ever masters that and gets a real lineup around him, he'll be absolutely terrifying.

I think this was the thread where I said the Rangers should probably be willing to give up Profar, Ott and their best pitching prospect for him and I stand by that.

Mike Stanton has amazing potential.

duncan_idaho · 06-22-2013, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

There is almost no package of prospects that could be put together that the Royals or virtually any team in baseball should say no to in order to acquire Mike Stanton.

A healthy Mike Stanton is truly at the level of Harper, Machado and almost Trout in terms of game-changing ability. And people forget that he's still only 23.

He is soooooo damn good. And I really think he's tapped into about 2/3 of his potential at this point. If there's a 60 HR hitter presently in major league baseball, it's him (though I think he's probably a 50 HR hitter).

And ever so slowly, his plate discipline is improving.

If he ever masters that and gets a real lineup around him, he'll be absolutely terrifying.

I think this was the thread where I said the Rangers should probably be willing to give up Profar, Ott and their best pitching prospect for him and I stand by that.

Mike Stanton has amazing potential.

I think that's a bigger block to acquiring him than the Royals being willing to give up the right package.

The Rangers would be smart to ship Olt, Profar, Perez and Grimm out for Stanton, if the Marlins would take it. I know Olt's star has fallen a bit, but those are ALL guys who probably start for the Marlins the day after the trade is made.

KC really can't match that. I don't think ANYONE in MLB can really match what the Rangers can if TExas decides it wants Stanton.

The only team that REALLY could match it is the Cardinals. Adams + Wacha + Martinez + Wong + Freese would probably get it done.

Of course, the Cardinals have a logjam in the OF as is, and at 1B. So it doesn't make as much sense for them as for Texas.

But Taveras and Stanton would be a terrifying combination for the next decade.

siberian khatru · 06-22-2013, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

If there's a 60 HR hitter presently in major league baseball, it's him (though I think he's probably a 50 HR hitter).

He'd be lucky to hit 15 playing half his games in The K./ Dayton Moore

DJ's left nut · 06-22-2013, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

I think that's a bigger block to acquiring him than the Royals being willing to give up the right package.

The Rangers would be smart to ship Olt, Profar, Perez and Grimm out for Stanton, if the Marlins would take it. I know Olt's star has fallen a bit, but those are ALL guys who probably start for the Marlins the day after the trade is made.

KC really can't match that. I don't think ANYONE in MLB can really match what the Rangers can if TExas decides it wants Stanton.

The only team that REALLY could match it is the Cardinals. Adams + Wacha + Martinez + Wong + Freese would probably get it done.

Of course, the Cardinals have a logjam in the OF as is, and at 1B. So it doesn't make as much sense for them as for Texas.

But Taveras and Stanton would be a terrifying combination for the next decade.

If the Cardinals didn't have Taveras in their system, the Marlins might be willing to make your offer. But with Taveras there, I just can't see the Fish dealing Stanton without insisting he comes back in the deal.

And Jesus, I'd mike your proposed trade 100 times out of 100. I'd hang up and silently weep to myself. Putting Taveras/Stanton at 3-4 in the middle of the order with Carpenter at the top and Craig/Molina/Holliday batting 5-6-7...{JIMP}. Really, you'd probably put Taveras at 2 with Holliday at 3 and Stanton at 4 for the near term, but long-term I don't think it stacks that way as Holliday's bat slows.

St. Louis would likely need Garcia to come up and play 2b at that point with Carpenter moving back to 3b. I could live with that for sure; those are 2 very nice OBP guys ahead of the most terrifying.

Yeah, the Royals biggest problem is timing. Their prospects are just a little too young to battle with the farm systems in Texas and St. Louis, as well as several others. KC needs to hope that Miami holds him for another 2 years and deals him before his walk year. At that point, the kids in the system will have probably established trade value.

**DeezNutz** · 06-22-2013, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

I would do it, and not think twice about it. I would probably try to see if I could get away with offering Orlando Calixte and another prospect instead of Mondesi, but that wouldn't be a stopping point.

Thing is, I'm not sure Ventura+Mondesi+Zimmer+Cuthbert would be enough. Stanton's value is, by all accounts, higher than that of Miguel Cabrera when the Marlins traded him, and that is a lesser package than what was given up for Cabrera.

It would leave the Royals pitching depth slim after the 2014 season, but you know what? Acquire Stanton, win some real games, and you might actually have a chance to re-sign James Shields after 2014.

Even without Ventura and Zimmer, the Royals' farm system would not be devoid of pitching talent.

Chris Dwyer
Danny Duffy
Miguel Almonte (who some think is equivalent to Zimmer, anyway)
Kyle Smith
Angel Baez
Bryan Brickhouse
Sean Manaea
John Lamb

And as for positional talent...

Jorge Bonifacio
Orlando Calixte
Hunter Dozier
Bubba Starling

That's probably STILL a top 1/2 farm system. And you don't have many needs at the MLB level until the 2015 season. 1B, LF, CF, RF, 4th OF, C, SS, all have clear options in place, as does DH. YOu're set in the bullpen for quite a while in terms of major pieces. 2B, 3B, and SP are your only potential questions.

Emptying out the farm system for young studs like Stanton with years of control remaining is not a bad thing, at all.

Gordon
Hosmer
Butler
Stanton

would be a pretty strong top 4 and create a LOT of runs. Stanton would make the Royals a legitimate contender in 2014, even if they can't bring back Ervin Santana (they'll have enough cash to bring in a quality SP, though). And if this team starts winning... and filling the ballpark... who knows what happens in terms of payroll?

2015 pitching staff would be the question. You're looking at...

1) VACANT (Unless you can extend Shields for a few seasons)
2) Danny Duffy (you hope)
3) Jeremy Guthrie (you hope he's slotted no higher than here)
4) FILLED BY a Pitching Prospect
5) Filled by a Pitching Prospect

Lot of question marks there. Best-case scenario would be Manaea getting healthy and zooming through the minors, because he has legitimate TOR ability. Almonte also has premium shelf ability, and Lamb did at one time (he has shown signs here and there of getting all the way back but hasn't done it yet). The rest of those guys are more back-end starters.

Stanton has transformational potential for this team. That's why the cost is so high and that's why so many teams will chase him. But if he were brought in and this was the 2014 lineup:

LF - Alex Gordon
1B - Eric Hosmer
DH - Billy Butler
RF - Mike Stanton
C - Sal Perez
2B - Kelly Johnson/other acquisition
CF - Cain
3B - Moustakas
SS - Escobar

You're talking about a real, legitimate, playoff-caliber lineup. They'd need to find a lefthanded stick at 2B that can legitimately hit 6, which makes Johnson a PERFECT fit. If moustakas doesn't show signs of life this year, you also need a solution there, which Johnson could be (insurance for suck from Moose). If Moustakas did show life, you're probably looking at him in the 6 hole as a beginning-of-year "plan."

Gordon and Stanton controlled through 2016
Hosmer, Cain and Moustakas through 2017
Butler through 2015
Perez and Escobar through 2019

You'd have Bonifacio and Calixte and Dozier probably knocking on the door in 2015.

Ultimately, it probably makes too much sense. ANd the Royals probably don't have enough NEAR-MLB talent to get it done.

Yep. The bold is the key. There is no price too high for Stanton.

This is the same thing as an NFL team attempting to acquire a legit, young, franchise QB. Whatever it takes. No questions, and no problems.

**SAUTO** · 06-22-2013, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Yep. The bold is the key. There is no price too high for Stanton.

This is the same thing as an NFL team attempting to acquire a legit, young, franchise QB. Whatever it takes. No questions, and no problems.

I'm in.
Posted via Mobile Device

**DeezNutz** · 06-22-2013, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

I'm in.
Posted via Mobile Device

You bet. When we traded Myers, we went balls deep. Too late now to start asking the bitch if she's got an STD.

At least with the Stanton trade, we'll get a little pleasure before we go sterile.

12-11-2012, 09:59 AM
duncan_idaho M-I-Z-Z-O-U Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $-1889692	2013 Kansas City Royals Repository Thread Proposed 2013 Slogan: Tigers: They're what's for dinner Actual 2013 Slogan: Come to Play A better, more accurate, or alternative slogan: All in, no panic, we promise. Dayton Moore has pushed all his chips in and is riding on King/Jack suited, hoping it comes together, he gets some good luck, and he hits the nuts by the river card. There's potential, oh yes, there's potential. There's also risk. At the midway point, Dayton is left counting on the river card. The flop and turn didn't help him, and he's looking at the Tigers holding a pair of Queens and the Indians holding a pair of 9s. His 2013 plan hasn't failed - yet - but the odds are not in his favor. Burning questions updates below. Burning Questions for 2013: 1) Will the improve rotation be improved enough? Does James Shields pitch like a fringe No. 1 away from Tampa Bay? Does Ervin Santana pitch to his highest upside in his walk year? Can Jeremy Guthrie build on his strong performance as a Royal in 2012? Can Wade Davis bring his new mentality- and velocity - back to the rotation? Midseason check-in: Yes, the rotation is certainly improved enough. Shields has pitched like a fringe No. 1 and Santana is having his best season. Guthrie has horrible peripherals but has continued to perform well at his home park and eat innings on the road. Davis brought neither his kick-ass mentality or improved velocity back to the rotation and is in Luke Hochevar/Hiram Davies territory. 2) When will Luke Hochevar be shown the door? Midseason check-in: It appears, never, at this point. Hochevar has been solid in non-leverage situations, though pretty much every time he has been used with men on base in an inning, it has been a disaster. 3) Does Hosmer bounce back? Midseason check-in: It took some time, but Hosmer's performance from June 1 on is probably the most encouraging thing about the 2013 season so far. 4) Can Moustakas hit for a whole season like he did in the first half of 2012? Midseason check-in: Nope. Moustakas was god-awful, then great for about 3 weeks, then god-awful again. He has been better since he started working with Brett and Grafol but still has a long way to go. 5) Who regresses? Midseason check-in: Welp, Alicides Escobar is not a surprising name here (though Yost's stubborn insistence on hitting him second is ridiculous). Billy Butler is a surprise. He isn't having a terrible year - still contributing a lot to the offense - but he's not hitting for the average or power he has displayed over the past several years. 6) Who plays 2B? Midseason check-in: A whole bunch of people, and not that great. Gio is at least getting a shot, though he once again is not doing much with it. 7) Can Jeff Francoeur be at least replacement level, rather than epic horrible level? Midseason check-in: Hahahahahahahahahahaha 8) Will Dayton Moore survive to see 2014? Midseason check-in: Outlook uncertain. Probably still around, unless the team completely tanks in the second half and he does something foolish. My guess - he sacrifices Ned Yost this offseason and gets one more shot with a new manager in 2014. 9) Will Danny Duffy come back healthy? And if he does, is he the same, better or worse? Midseason check-in: Yes. Velocity looks the same, and it looks likely he is the same guy as before. 10) And the big one: Has KC added enough to run down the big-money Detroit Tigers? Midseason check-in: Doesn't look like it, does it? Last edited by duncan_idaho; 07-15-2013 at 10:01 AM..
Posts: 22,310

06-22-2013, 03:35 PM	#6122
tomahawk kid Drunk in the Neighborhood Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Beating the War Drums Casino cash: $10001837	This 'baseball team' has more vaginas than the GD Playboy mansion.
Posts: 5,974

06-22-2013, 03:40 PM	#6125
CaliforniaChief #RIPAce Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: So Cal Casino cash: $10715899	We've banked on the hope of prospects for 20 + years. And that has gotten us next to jack squat. I would absolutely do that deal now. Stanton is a proven stud who would add punch to this lineup and put people in the seats. 1. Gordon (LF) 2. Hosmer (1B) 3. Butler (DH) 4. Stanton (RF) 5. Perez (C) 6. Moose (3B) 7. Cain (CF) 8. Giavotella (2B) 9. Escobar (SS)
Posts: 17,443

06-22-2013, 05:08 PM	#6129
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $-620901	There is almost no package of prospects that could be put together that the Royals or virtually any team in baseball should say no to in order to acquire Mike Stanton. I'm a Cardinal homer, obviously, but I think they may be the only team who would be in a position where they should decline if the Rangers come ask for prospects 1-4 (Miller, Tavares, Martinez, Adams). A healthy Mike Stanton is truly at the level of Harper, Machado and almost Trout in terms of game-changing ability. And people forget that he's still only 23. He is soooooo damn good. And I really think he's tapped into about 2/3 of his potential at this point. If there's a 60 HR hitter presently in major league baseball, it's him (though I think he's probably a 50 HR hitter). And ever so slowly, his plate discipline is improving. If he ever masters that and gets a real lineup around him, he'll be absolutely terrifying. I think this was the thread where I said the Rangers should probably be willing to give up Profar, Ott and their best pitching prospect for him and I stand by that. Mike Stanton has amazing potential. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 66,686

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