Do we want DeHop?

[ROYC75]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...9536dcd3&ei=21


Story by Andrew Gould




The Kansas City Chiefs won the Super Bowl without a star wide receiver, but they could reportedly make an elite offense even scarier by acquiring DeAndre Hopkins.

NFL insider Benjamin Albright told PHNX Cardinals that Kansas City is the "primary suitor" for Hopkins. He doesn't know the draft compensation the Cardinals would receive, but he said it's more likely they get a second-round pick than a first.

After the 2022 season, theScore's Jordan Schultz reported that the Cardinals plan to trade Hopkins this offseason.

Arizona hired a new general manager and head coach after a disappointing four-win season, and Hopkins is set to make $19.45 million (with a $30.75 million cap hit) in 2023. The Cardinals could seek a clean slate by moving the three-time All-Pro wideout, who turns 31 in June.

Hopkins began his Cardinals career by tallying 1,407 yards and six touchdowns in 2020. However, multiple lower body injuries limited him to 10 games in 2021, and he served a six-game suspension to start the 2022 season for violating the NFL's PED policy.

Yet he remains an impact player when on the field. Hopkins totaled 474 receiving yards in six full games with quarterback Kyler Murray last season.

Now imagine what he can accomplish when catching passes from Patrick Mahomes.

The Chiefs flourished without a star replacement for Tyreek Hill, but they could still benefit by solidifying the position this offseason. JuJu Smith-Schuster is a free agent after garnering 78 catches for 933 yards on a one-year deal. The depth chart features several talented question marks in Mecole Hardman, Kadarius Toney, and Marquez Valdes-Scantling.

Adding Hopkins could be great news for Kansas City, but terrible for all opposing defenses.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Do we want a high priced prima donna?

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Yeah, if it were any other team, I'd say we're ****ed. Can't give 20%+ of the cap to any player and hope to win the SB. But Mahomes is the Great Eraser. Problem becomes what is the number for Mahomes? Is it 22%? 24%? he is human, as is Andy and Travis, so at some point the weight becomes too much to bear.

Well, spending another 10% on a WR that will not increase the overall offensive production is a shit return, and we can't have shit returns.

And don't start telling me it will increase production; Hopkins is not Hill, and we were more productive, efficient, and explosive by any statistical measure after moving on.

You want to argue that we should spend more money keeping Mahomes healthy and upgrade the OT's, I'm on board.

Otherwise, nope.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Yeah, if it were any other team, I'd say we're ****ed. Can't give 20%+ of the cap to any player and hope to win the SB. But Mahomes is the Great Eraser. Problem becomes what is the number for Mahomes? Is it 22%? 24%? he is human, as is Andy and Travis, so at some point the weight becomes too much to bear.

It’s fair to wonder. But he was a lot more expensive in 2022 with a championship victory compared to failed playoff runs in 2018, 2020, & 2021. Patrick’s 2021 cap hit was 4%, so they already took a pretty huge leap forward with a 17% cap hit in 2022.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by emaw1979

I'm fine with gambling and hoping he's not another Julio Jones IF the price is a 4th rounder. If it's a 2nd then I'd hope Veech runs away as fast as he could.

Meh. People often place to much value on draft picks. Thing is, 2nd/3rd rounders flame out from the get-go all the time. It's not even surprising. Known quantities/values are often more prized by GMs/HCs than draft picks, because you already know they can play in the NFL at a high level. All rooks are a roll of the dice. Some moreso than others, but it stands.

I'm a bit of a gambler, so I wouldn't mind giving up a 3rd (or a 3rd and a 5th?) for three or more years of top-10 quality play at the WR position, something we aren't close to right now. Especially with Kelce closer to the end of his prime than the beginning. Maaaybe even a 2nd. Depends a lot on who exactly we think we're going to get in the draft, but at pick 31/32 we're not getting the picks of the litter regardless.

Never mind that we really can't expect Veach to continuously pull off 6-8 great picks/draft every year. That's the least realistic thing we can expect. He's going to have up and down years, just like everyone else since the beginning of time.

And the whole 'draft and develop!' thing sounds great on paper. But it doesn't always work. Sometimes it even flops. And I'm hearing some scuttlebutt that this year's WR class isn't all that, especially from where we're drafting. And by far the weakest room in the building is the WR room.

Right this second, Toney is the best WR we have. A third-year guy with a ton of potential and an injury history that's already forced him to miss an entire season's worth of games. After him, it's limited role player guy, and almost compete unknown guy. That, on a team that the most pass-happy squad in the NFL.

I'd just hate to look back in ten years or whatever and wonder what could've been if Veach/Andy had taken a small leap of faith and acquired a true WR1 instead of hoping some rook worked out.

I watched GB do that for ten years? Blew my mind they never invested in a top-tier WR1, either in the draft or FA/trades. They had a window where they could've won multiple SBs and just squandered it trying to 'draft and develop,' and 'Rodgers will find a way.'

Don't get me wrong, you have to draft and develop, but that should never be the only way. The whole reason we're sitting on two SB Rings is because Veach has been as multiple as he could be in acquiring talent.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Well, spending another 10% on a WR that will not increase the overall offensive production is a shit return, and we can't have shit returns.

And don't start telling me it will increase production; Hopkins is not Hill, and we were more productive, efficient, and explosive by any statistical measure after moving on.

You want to argue that we should spend more money keeping Mahomes healthy and upgrade the OT's, I'm on board.

Otherwise, nope.

Andy's Prime Directive has always been "get me and Pat more weapons." You're high if you think Veach isn't going to make every effort to bring more talented offensive weapons to the Chiefs in 2023.

And stop with the Hill stuff. No one thinks that DHop=Hill; they aren't even the same type of WR, fcs. Hill is a speed merchant. DHop is a physically prototypical WR (unlike Hill) with exceptional hands (not Hill) and athleticism which grants him a huge catch radius (not like Hill), with great route-running skills from any position and an extremely high football IQ. DHop is closer to Jerry than he is to Isaac Bruce.

{No one flip the hell out and say that I'm comparing DHop directly to Jerry Rice. Chill.}

[BleedingRed]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Andy's Prime Directive has always been "get me and Pat more weapons." You're high if you think Veach isn't going to make every effort to bring more talented offensive weapons to the Chiefs in 2023.

And stop with the Hill stuff. No one thinks that DHop=Hill; they aren't even the same type of WR, fcs. Hill is a speed merchant. DHop is a physically prototypical WR (unlike Hill) with exceptional hands (not Hill) and athleticism which grants him a huge catch radius (not like Hill), with great route-running skills from any position and an extremely high football IQ. DHop is closer to Jerry than he is to Isaac Bruce.

{No one flip the hell out and say that I'm comparing DHop directly to Jerry Rice. Chill.}

Any doubt that if Mahomes had a WR as good as Hopkins he wouldn’t be 1,500+

With Hopkins I’d look for 5 year deal (three year in actuality) and see what Mahomes can do.

Hopkins
+. = Two amazing route runners, and amazing catching…
Kelce

We need to maximize Kelce’s windows, not Mahomes

Anyway we can take doubles off Kelce needs to be seriously explored. This doesn’t mean we do not develope Toney/sky/Ross it just means we attack Kelces window with everything we can.

[BleedingRed]

I’m just arguing for the perfect team, I want Mahomes to win another Super Bowl(s) but what I think might do his legend even more is a perfect season.

If the Chiefs go undefeated, his Legend jumps a whole other level:

Elite QB/TE/WR1 plus undecided RB1 (pops got serious potential) I just think that combo has a shot

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by BleedingRed

Any doubt that if Mahomes had a WR as good as Hopkins he wouldn’t be 1,500+

If I'm hedging, I could easily see 1300+? 1,500 is a possibility, but we know Travis is going to get his 90-100 catches for 1,000+. He's the prime receiver. But Pat throws like 650 passes/season? That's a guess. But there's plenty of balls out there. Say DHop catches 90-100, that's about 1200 yards/8-12 TDs kind of on the low side of the guesstimations.

But he's spent most of his career being Travis; being the number 1 receiver. With Kelce on the field, he'd see a lot more 1v1s than he ever has. So maybe his YAC goes up, or his air yards. Or both.

1,500 yards is possible, though I wouldn't bet real money on it. 1,300 I'd bet on. that'd be easy money, based on recent past performance.

[dlphg9]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Meh. People often place to much value on draft picks. Thing is, 2nd/3rd rounders flame out from the get-go all the time. It's not even surprising. Known quantities/values are often more prized by GMs/HCs than draft picks, because you already know they can play in the NFL at a high level. All rooks are a roll of the dice. Some moreso than others, but it stands.

I'm a bit of a gambler, so I wouldn't mind giving up a 3rd (or a 3rd and a 5th?) for three or more years of top-10 quality play at the WR position, something we aren't close to right now. Especially with Kelce closer to the end of his prime than the beginning. Maaaybe even a 2nd. Depends a lot on who exactly we think we're going to get in the draft, but at pick 31/32 we're not getting the picks of the litter regardless.

Never mind that we really can't expect Veach to continuously pull off 6-8 great picks/draft every year. That's the least realistic thing we can expect. He's going to have up and down years, just like everyone else since the beginning of time.

And the whole 'draft and develop!' thing sounds great on paper. But it doesn't always work. Sometimes it even flops. And I'm hearing some scuttlebutt that this year's WR class isn't all that, especially from where we're drafting. And by far the weakest room in the building is the WR room.

Right this second, Toney is the best WR we have. A third-year guy with a ton of potential and an injury history that's already forced him to miss an entire season's worth of games. After him, it's limited role player guy, and almost compete unknown guy. That, on a team that the most pass-happy squad in the NFL.

I'd just hate to look back in ten years or whatever and wonder what could've been if Veach/Andy had taken a small leap of faith and acquired a true WR1 instead of hoping some rook worked out.

I watched GB do that for ten years? Blew my mind they never invested in a top-tier WR1, either in the draft or FA/trades. They had a window where they could've won multiple SBs and just squandered it trying to 'draft and develop,' and 'Rodgers will find a way.'

Don't get me wrong, you have to draft and develop, but that should never be the only way. The whole reason we're sitting on two SB Rings is because Veach has been as multiple as he could be in acquiring talent.

It's not placing too high of a price on draft picks. Draft picks are what allow teams to sign their stars. Also, Veach has been pretty on the money with his draft picks, so I'd rather he just find someone than trade for someone that's gonna cost too much.

He's going to be 31 and that's not even my biggest concern. He's become quite injury prone. Lost 3 games in 2021 due to a hamstring, then played 2 games before he tore his MCL. 2022 he's suspended the first 6 games and is only able to play 9 games before what do you know, he strains the same knee he ****ed up. Being 31 doesn't help either. I'd rather make the picks and not worry about this dude hurting himself. I

f we're gonna go with an old broke dick I'd rather get Odell Beckham Jr. He doesn't cost a draft pick and isn't going to cost near what Hopkins is going to cost.

[Abba-Dabba]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Whoa, I never said he was a surefire 1st ballot HOFer, someone else did. I said he was a probable HOFer.

Also, I didn't say he'd play another 6-10 years; I said he'd probably be voted in the HOF somewhere in the next 6-10 years depending on how long he played. My thought is about 3-4 more years, with a two year hedge.

And Boldin was a pretty good boundary WR, but not nearly the athlete that DHop is, and never had DHop's hands. that's not even speculation, those are just facts.

There's more than one Stanley Morgan, so I'm unclear on him. We talking about the one from the 80s? Because I didn't watch NE back then.

Harold I had to look up, but I remember him a little now. Great moves after the catch, very elusive. Unfortunately too far back for me to remember very much other than his elusiveness.

Either way, you are saying he will be a 1st ballot HOF'er. If you think he will be in the HOF in 6-10 years. Well, let's look at that math. At 6 yrs he will need to have retired after this upcoming season. If that is the case. He definitely does not have the resume to be in the HOF on the 1st ballot.

In 10 years he would still only have played a few more seasons, but that is operating under the assumption that he gets back to his younger self. Which history has dictated in the past that is highly unlikely to happen for WR's over the age of 30. Won a championship, stayed healthy and PED free. And even you using your own time frame of 3-4 more years, you are definitely saying in the 6-10 year time frame he is a 1st ballot HOF'er.

He's not.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by BleedingRed

I’m just arguing for the perfect team, I want Mahomes to win another Super Bowl(s) but what I think might do his legend even more is a perfect season.

If the Chiefs go undefeated, his Legend jumps a whole other level:

Elite QB/TE/WR1 plus undecided RB1 (pops got serious potential) I just think that combo has a shot

Lol, yeah, and I'm not even a 'perfect season' advocate. It's too hard, with the length of the season plus the fact that the rules are so bent in favor of the offense. Too easy for something to go sideways and oops, you drop one game.

But the combination of Andy/Mahomes/Travis/Pacheco/and an elite WR? You can't double Kelce and DHop at the same time, and you have to honor Pacheco. And then there's the Andy Effect. It's hard to imagine losing more than one or two games. It's hard to imagine not going to the SB every season that group would be together.

[Abba-Dabba]

FTR though, I'm not opposed to DHop as a player. I'm opposed to where he is in his career, price tag and cost of future draft capital. It's just too rich for my blood for the risk.

[Balto]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Well, spending another 10% on a WR that will not increase the overall offensive production is a shit return, and we can't have shit returns.

And don't start telling me it will increase production; Hopkins is not Hill, and we were more productive, efficient, and explosive by any statistical measure after moving on.

You want to argue that we should spend more money keeping Mahomes healthy and upgrade the OT's, I'm on board.

Otherwise, nope.

The problem is that you’re talking averages. What will the O be with or without Hopkins the ENTIRE season.

We need to stop thinking that way of winning games. Reid and Mahomes will get us to the playoffs. At that point we need studs to make huge impact plays.

Hopkins could give us that 1 huge play to win a playoff game or even be that 1 impact player that single game that wins us a SB.

[Balto]

Originally Posted by BleedingRed

I’m just arguing for the perfect team, I want Mahomes to win another Super Bowl(s) but what I think might do his legend even more is a perfect season.

If the Chiefs go undefeated, his Legend jumps a whole other level:

Elite QB/TE/WR1 plus undecided RB1 (pops got serious potential) I just think that combo has a shot

I mean……

Randy Moss traded to the Raiders, it didn’t work out sooooo

Moss was acquired by New England on April 29, 2007 from the Oakland Raiders in exchange for a fourth-round selection in the 2007 NFL Draft (110th overall). During his first season in New England, Moss helped the Patriots finish with a 16-0 regular-season record, setting an NFL record with 23 touchdown receptions.


History repeating itself to give Mahomes a perfect season?

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Abba-Dabba

Either way, you are saying he will be a 1st ballot HOF'er. If you think he will be in the HOF in 6-10 years. Well, let's look at that math. At 6 yrs he will need to have retired after this upcoming season. If that is the case. He definitely does not have the resume to be in the HOF on the 1st ballot.

In 10 years he would still only have played a few more seasons, but that is operating under the assumption that he gets back to his younger self. Which history has dictated in the past that is highly unlikely to happen for WR's over the age of 30. Won a championship, stayed healthy and PED free. And even you using your own time frame of 3-4 more years, you are definitely saying in the 6-10 year time frame he is a 1st ballot HOF'er.

He's not.

Well, no. Unless I messed up the math again. Worst case scenario he retires after a couple seasons? That would mean his first year of eligibility would be in 6-7 years right? Move that date 3 or so years and he'd be eligible in 10.

He lost a big chunk of the 2021 season to his first serious injury, and this season was a suspension.

But every season before that for 5+ season he went over 1,000 yds, over 12yds/reception, over 100 catches/season, around 9-10 TDs/season . . . close to 70% catch rate?

And I watched him play since coming to AZ, because I live here, so guess what I get to watch a lot of? And in 2022, I went to a pair of games, so I saw him when he first came back, and then a couple months later. There's no drop-off. Maaaaybe he's a half-step slower. Maybe.

Give him a top-12 QB and an OC worth his weight in Kit Kat bars, and DHop would be rolling off 1,100yd/seasons just like he was a couple years ago. JFC, he just reeled off 717 yds, 11.2yds/cth, 64 rcpts, 80yds/gm, with a 67% catch rate with four different QBs, not one of which ranked higher than 19th in QBR/PRTG. Basically the proverbial bottom of the barrel as far as QBs go.

2+ seasons, he'd be around/close to 14,000 yds, over 85+ TDs.

Another couple seasons, maybe he's over 15,000/100TDs?

Sounds like HOF numbers to me.

[bigjosh]

Originally Posted by Balto

I mean……

Randy Moss traded to the Raiders, it didn’t work out sooooo

Moss was acquired by New England on April 29, 2007 from the Oakland Raiders in exchange for a fourth-round selection in the 2007 NFL Draft (110th overall). During his first season in New England, Moss helped the Patriots finish with a 16-0 regular-season record, setting an NFL record with 23 touchdown receptions.


History repeating itself to give Mahomes a perfect season?

Randy moss was also 30 when traded to the patriots.


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