Let's talk Defensive Line

[Couch-Potato]

Went through a bunch of threads to identify all of our interests across the defensive line, is this all of them? Who else should be added to the list? Removed from the list? Should anyone be moved up or down on the draft target list?

FA Targets
-DE Yannick Ngakoue, IND
-DT Da’ron Payne, WAS
-DT Poona Ford, SEA
-DE Jadaveon Clowney, CLV
-DT Kalen Saunders, KC
-DT Greg Gains, LAR
-DT Armon Watts, CHI
-DE Ardon Key, JAX
-DE Clean Ferril, LVR
-DE Ogbonnia Okoronkwo, HOU
-DT Chris Wormley, PIT
-DT Maurice Hurst, SF
-DT Andrew Billings, CIN

Vet Trade Targets
-DE Brian Burns, CAR
-DE Chase Young, WAS
-DE Carl Granderson, New Orleans
-DE Za'Darius Smith, Minnesota
-DE D.J. Wonnum, Minnesota

1st Rd Targets
-DT Byran Breese,
-DE Lukas Van Ness, Iowa
-DE BJ Ojulari, LSU
-DE Keion White, Georgia Tech
-DE Derick Hall, Auburn
-DE Isahiah Foskey, ND
-DE Nolan Smith, Georgia
-DL Tuli Tuipulotu, USC
-DE Andre Carter, Army

2nd Rd Targets
-DT Siaki Ika, BU
-DE Will McDonald IV, Iowa St.
-DL Calijah Kancey, Pitt
-DE Zach Harrison, Ohio State
-DE Anudike-Uzomah, Kansas State
-DT Mazi Smith, Michigan

3rd Rd Targets
-DT Gervon Dexter, Florida
-NT Keanu Benton, Wisconsin
-DE Adetomiwa Adebawore, Northwestern
-DL Byron Young, Tennessee
-DT Zack Pickens, South Carolina
-DL Mike Morris, Michigan
-DE Dylan Horton, TCU

4th Rd Targets
-DT Byron Young, Alabama
-DE Viliami Fehoko, San Jose St
-DE Thomas Incoom, Central Michigan
-DL Yaya Diabi, Louisville
-DE Habakkuk Baldonado, Pitt

5th-7th Rd Targets
-DE Isaiah McGuire, Missouri
-DE Caleb Murphy, Ferris St
-DE Derek Parish, Houston
-DT Dante Stills, West Virginia
-NT Elijah Simmons, Tennessee

[Couch-Potato]

There's only a few guys in this year's draft that can really play that NT position, seems like if we want one we'll have to target them probably by packaging picks for a trade or maybe Benton is available with our 2nd round pick.

Bryan Breese, 6-5 305 lbs
Mazi Smith, 6-3 337 lbs
Keeannu Benton, 6-4 312


Who am I missing?

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato

There's only a few guys in this year's draft that can really play that NT position, seems like if we want one we'll have to target them probably by packaging picks for a trade or maybe Benton is available with our 2nd round pick.

Bryan Breese
Mazi Smith
Keannu Benton

Who am I missing?

Siaki Ika, Baylor

I think Gervin Dexter has more juice against the run, personally. Feels a bit to me like Jarran Reed.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato

There's only a few guys in this year's draft that can really play that NT position, seems like if we want one we'll have to target them probably by packaging picks for a trade or maybe Benton is available with our 2nd round pick.

Bryan Breese, 6-5 305 lbs
Mazi Smith, 6-3 337 lbs
Keeannu Benton, 6-4 312


Who am I missing?

I think there are plenty of others that can play NT.
I'd say any of these can:
Zacch Pickens, South Carolina
Jaquelin Roy, LSU (prefer as a 3T)
Keondre Coburn, Texas
D.J. Dale, Alabama
P.J. Mustipher, Penn State
Jerrod Clark, Coastal Carolina

[kozzman555]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Siaki Ika, Baylor

I think Gervin Dexter has more juice against the run, personally. Feels a bit to me like Jarran Reed.

Siaki Ika is so damn big, I'm worried about his work ethic tbh. Can he maintain his weight or even reduce it a bit? Dude is huge and I don't want to end up with some bloated monstrosity that goes full Jamarcus Russell. Feel free to correct me on this, just a worry i have with bro's that big when he's only 6'4". He's got a great swim move, but I see on some of his plays he's losing his lane integrity trying to get into the backfield. I can't see spending a 1st or 2nd on him, which is where I usually see him going.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by kozzman555

Siaki Ika is so damn big, I'm worried about his work ethic tbh. Can he maintain his weight or even reduce it a bit? Dude is huge and I don't want to end up with some bloated monstrosity that goes full Jamarcus Russell. Feel free to correct me on this, just a worry i have with bro's that big when he's only 6'4". He's got a great swim move, but I see on some of his plays he's losing his lane integrity trying to get into the backfield. I can't see spending a 1st or 2nd on him, which is where I usually see him going.

If he runs well at the combine, he's going to rocket up boards. Guys that move quickly at that size are exceedingly rare.

The last few that did all went in the top 12.

Vita Vea, Dontari Poe, and Haloti Ngata come to mind.

The shelf lives are usually shorter but the rewards are usually high in the short term.

You can look at Danny Shelton in that group but Shelton didn't move like those other guys and he didn't disrupt double-teams like those other guys. I see a lot more of a Vea/Poe/Ngata with Ika's interior disruption than I do a Shelton who is much more of a leaner.

[Couch-Potato]

I have trouble understanding our requirements for NT.

Pickens for instance is smaller than Chris Jones, aren't we looking for someone bigger?

[JPH83]

I could see Coburn being a really good pick in the late 3rd. Might go earlier in that round but I can't see him going in the first 2 rounds.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato

I have trouble understanding our requirements for NT.

Pickens for instance is smaller than Chris Jones, aren't we looking for someone bigger?

yeah, most lighter guys aren't going to hold up against the run.

[O.city]

I would take Ika in the 2nd. He's Haloti Ngata 2.0

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato

I have trouble understanding our requirements for NT.

Pickens for instance is smaller than Chris Jones, aren't we looking for someone bigger?

Pickens is the same size as Jarran Reed plus he played NT at South Carolina. I really don't see the concern. You don't need a 350-pound mammoth in a 4-3. It's not much to ask Pickens to put on 10 pounds if you want him around 320.

[Couch-Potato]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Pickens is the same size as Jarran Reed plus he played NT at South Carolina. I really don't see the concern. You don't need a 350-pound mammoth in a 4-3. It's not much to ask Pickens to put on 10 pounds if you want him around 320.

Why not Clijah Kancey then? He's undersized at 280, but played NT in college.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato

Why not Clijah Kancey then? He's undersized at 280, but played NT in college.

I'm not reeruned. Saying a 307-pound guy can do it and a 275-pound guy can do it are two entirely different things.

[Couch-Potato]

Originally Posted by kccrow

I'm not reeruned. Saying a 307-pound guy can do it and a 275-pound guy can do it are two entirely different things.

I'm asking genuinely, do we need a NT? C Jones is doubled more than any player in the league other than A Donald, and he might retire soon. If C Jones is getting the double teams, isn't he sort of acting as the NT freeing up a second D-linemen?

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato

I'm asking genuinely, do we need a NT? C Jones is doubled more than any player in the league other than A Donald, and he might retire soon. If C Jones is getting the double teams, isn't he sort of acting as the NT freeing up a second D-linemen?

It would be an extremely rare guy indeed that can stand up to 320 pound guards in a power blocking scheme coming right at them. Double team or no.

You've got to double Jones pass blocking because he's 300 pounds, with elite length, strength, and quickness. But if you want to run right at him, you still can, and if your guard is strong enough, you've got a fair chance at success.

If you have a second DT that can win in run defense more often than not, then you create a real problem for offenses. A 275 pound guy is almost never going to be able to do that.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato

I'm asking genuinely, do we need a NT? C Jones is doubled more than any player in the league other than A Donald, and he might retire soon. If C Jones is getting the double teams, isn't he sort of acting as the NT freeing up a second D-linemen?

Thanks for clarifying.

Spags largely runs his D-Line in a 1-gap scheme with Over/Under shifts depending on what the offense is presenting: Over if plus wide, Under if plus boundary. He'll stack LBs against 21 if the FB eliminates the plus else have them aligned to the strength.

So that said, no, you don't need to have a beast of a NT that has 2-gap responsibility down after down.

With that, however, when he runs an Under front, he's asking his NT to hold up against the strength of the formation to the boundary side, and a guy like Kancey might not be able to do that even if it's more likely that he's going against an outside zone run concept than power.

Ideally, the DTs in Spag's defense have the ability to play both 3T and 1T in either alignment. Obviously, Chris Jones is a great differentiator but the point stands.

Guys like Kancey, Ojomo, Stills, Lacy, and so on are great rotational pieces in the type of defense that Spags runs in order to give speed on obvious pass downs. Aaron Donald is a rare undersized but insanely strong dude with incredible disruptive capability. Kancey might be able to be that guy but I don't think he has the same strength that Aaron Donald has or had coming out. He's a guy you'd usually play as the 3T and move him to account for it, much like the Chiefs do with Jones, rather than asking your DTs to just switch up alignments.

Don't get me wrong, I like Kancey, but if the Chiefs are intent on keeping Jones beyond 2023, he has diminishing value early in the draft. Kancey is too talented to fall to day 3 where the Chiefs would find more value in him as a rotational piece. You can likely get Ojomo, Stills, and Lacy in that half of the draft though.