Creed Humphrey Extension with Chiefs

[SHOWTIME]

Sources: The #Chiefs and Pro Bowl center Creed Humphrey have agreed to terms on a massive new deal to make him the NFL’s highest-paid center. pic.twitter.com/47C484DwuE

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) August 23, 2024

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by JPH83

And as you said, Smith's been solid in pass pro, he's just also not been paid a boatload. But yes, LT has been the disaster, and the problem in affording an even average one will be the combination of an overpaid elite C, and an overpaid average RT

But I think it's more defensible to overpay an average RT than an elite C.

Because, as has been noted, the pure scarcity associated with the position.

Cam Robinson will get roughly what Taylor got. Maybe a little more, maybe a little less -- unlikely different enough to be notable either way. And he'll be, essentially, Taylor.

OTs are just absurdly expensive and even finding an average one in FA costs a small fortune. Finding an average C? Pft - just teach a guard to snap.

It's just a much much much easier position to fill at a representative level.

[Chief Pagan]

You aren't going to have a roster where nobody is being paid above market value. Just like draft busts, it's going to happen. Yes, you want to minimize how often and how much that happens.
And even if not every first and second round player produces like you want, you got to have plenty of players on rookie contracts. You just can't trade all your picks away and pay all your players FA market rates.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

But I think it's more defensible to overpay an average RT than an elite C.

Because, as has been noted, the pure scarcity associated with the position.

Cam Robinson will get roughly what Taylor got. Maybe a little more, maybe a little less -- unlikely different enough to be notable either way. And he'll be, essentially, Taylor.

OTs are just absurdly expensive and even finding an average one in FA costs a small fortune. Finding an average C? Pft - just teach a guard to snap.

It's just a much much much easier position to fill at a representative level.

I can see the argument. Mine is really just that overpaying for mediocrity anywhere is just as much a roster killer as over-valuing a position like C, because it reduces the margin for error elsewhere. It's probably also just my frustration with Taylor.

[BWillie]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Nobody yet.

And Creed hasn't cost any money yet.

The point isn't that it's impacted us to this stage as the contract hasn't kicked in. It's that it very well COULD going forward and this season (and previous ones) demonstrate very clearly how.

A guy like Cam Robinson is going to be more difficult for us to sign and firm up the LT position for the next several years because we'll have Creed's contract on the books instead.

Nobody's frustrated by what the contract HAS done - it hasn't started yet. The conversation is as to what the contract COULD do in the future.

Id argue it is affecting our decision making this year because we need to position ourselves in the future for certain positions & contracts. Already having Creed on the books going forward hampers us to some degree even this year when in my opinion it was not a needed signing. I'm not disagreeing just my point of view.

[Dante84]

Jawaan is the biggest albatross on our cap, dollars for production. Similar to Frank a few years back.

With that said, I'd bet every team in the league has at least one contract that they'd like to have back at any given time.

[JPH83]

The famed OL rebuild is feeling like it's fraying a little. Crazy how much LT has f**ked us. The trenches really haven't been great this year.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Dante84

Jawaan is the biggest albatross on our cap, dollars for production. Similar to Frank a few years back.

With that said, I'd bet every team in the league has at least one contract that they'd like to have back at any given time.

Again - not even close.

Frank Clark cost a shitload of cap space to be BAD at football.

Taylor's just been average. Not bad, not drunk, not injured. Just average.

And even if you want to put stock in "Post-season Frank" -- Taylor was extremely good in the post-season last year.

Taylor is more akin to Sammy Watkins in that he's overpaid, but the market for the position was stout in FA. Both guys were signed on projections that didn't materialize to the extent hoped. And both guys were good, important players for the team.

When Clark wasn't on the field, the team wasn't noticeably worse. If you took Taylor off this OL, as bad as things are at the moment, they'd be exponentially worse without him.

It's not a close comparison at all.

[Dante84]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Again - not even close.

Frank Clark cost a shitload of cap space to be BAD at football.

Taylor's just been average. Not bad, not drunk, not injured. Just average.

And even if you want to put stock in "Post-season Frank" -- Taylor was extremely good in the post-season last year.

Taylor is more akin to Sammy Watkins in that he's overpaid, but the market for the position was stout in FA. Both guys were signed on projections that didn't materialize to the extent hoped. And both guys were good, important players for the team.

When Clark wasn't on the field, the team wasn't noticeably worse. If you took Taylor off this OL, as bad as things are at the moment, they'd be exponentially worse without him.

It's not a close comparison at all.

What's a good metric with which to judge Taylor's performance relative to his pay? I'd also like to see this compared to RT's exclusively, rather than a list that includes LT's who have a substantially higher average contract value.

I know his pass blocking has been average, but I'd also be curious to see his impact on stalled drives, missed points, lost yards, etc... due to penalties.

Is it EPA?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Dante84

What's a good metric with which to judge Taylor's performance relative to his pay? I'd also like to see this compared to RT's exclusively, rather than a list that includes LT's who have a substantially higher average contract value.

I know his pass blocking has been average, but I'd also be curious to see his impact on stalled drives, missed points, lost yards, etc... due to penalties.

Is it EPA?

I've looked primarily at pass block win rates. Mostly because I don't really care about his run blocking (I know I should. Still don't).

As for LT vs. RT -- it just has much less impact on my analysis given that A) They're both extremely expensive now and B) We need our RT to be able to block as well as our LT because we put our TE off the line as often as we do.

Now I think a good argument exists that the right answer would've been to retain Wylie at a much lower figure than Taylor and then sign, say, Armstead. But at the time Armstead signed, we still had OBJr.

When we signed Taylor, the situation we found ourselves in was one where we HAD to get a guy who at least had the tools to play LT to say 'yes'. Wylie didn't. Taylor does have the physical tools to do that job.

And someone would've paid him LT money, IMO. So again, the market is what the market is. LT vs. RT becomes less and less relevant at that point.

The options were pretty damn limited when we declined to Franchise Brown, couldn't get a reasonable extension done and ultimately entered the off-season without a single OT under contract. We put ourselves in quite a pickle.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I've looked primarily at pass block win rates. Mostly because I don't really care about his run blocking (I know I should. Still don't).

As for LT vs. RT -- it just has much less impact on my analysis given that A) They're both extremely expensive now and B) We need our RT to be able to block as well as our LT because we put our TE off the line as often as we do.

Now I think a good argument exists that the right answer would've been to retain Wylie at a much lower figure than Taylor and then sign, say, Armstead. But at the time Armstead signed, we still had OBJr.

When we signed Taylor, the situation we found ourselves in was one where we HAD to get a guy who at least had the tools to play LT to say 'yes'. Wylie didn't. Taylor does have the physical tools to do that job.

And someone would've paid him LT money, IMO. So again, the market is what the market is. LT vs. RT becomes less and less relevant at that point.

The options were pretty damn limited when we declined to Franchise Brown, couldn't get a reasonable extension done and ultimately entered the off-season without a single OT under contract. We put ourselves in quite a pickle.

When we signed Taylor, they made it seem like he would be the LT and we were all sure the contract indicated that he was the LT. And then....he never was. And they never tried him there even with the cluster**** that had been this season at that position. I wonder what happened.

[chiefforlife]

Originally Posted by -King-

When we signed Taylor, they made it seem like he would be the LT and we were all sure the contract indicated that he was the LT. And then....he never was. And they never tried him there even with the cluster**** that had been this season at that position. I wonder what happened.

Yeah, I was thinking maybe he moves to LT next year. Allowing Kingsley to start at RT for a season, ala Fisher.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I've looked primarily at pass block win rates. Mostly because I don't really care about his run blocking (I know I should. Still don't).

As for LT vs. RT -- it just has much less impact on my analysis given that A) They're both extremely expensive now and B) We need our RT to be able to block as well as our LT because we put our TE off the line as often as we do.

Now I think a good argument exists that the right answer would've been to retain Wylie at a much lower figure than Taylor and then sign, say, Armstead. But at the time Armstead signed, we still had OBJr.

When we signed Taylor, the situation we found ourselves in was one where we HAD to get a guy who at least had the tools to play LT to say 'yes'. Wylie didn't. Taylor does have the physical tools to do that job.

And someone would've paid him LT money, IMO. So again, the market is what the market is. LT vs. RT becomes less and less relevant at that point.

The options were pretty damn limited when we declined to Franchise Brown, couldn't get a reasonable extension done and ultimately entered the off-season without a single OT under contract. We put ourselves in quite a pickle.

Originally Posted by -King-

When we signed Taylor, they made it seem like he would be the LT and we were all sure the contract indicated that he was the LT. And then....he never was. And they never tried him there even with the cluster**** that had been this season at that position. I wonder what happened.

I got shit on alot for my "we should sign OBJ" takes when they were never really based on him being a great LT.

It's that.....shit there just aren't many of them. We can't seem to figure out how to draft and develop one, I dunno if it's what we're looking for or what is happening there (it's the same at DE it seems like) so it was kinda "ride with who brought you".

LT/QB and somewhat DE are just spots that there aren't alot of people that can do it at a very high level. So if you have one that can, even if it's just in spurts, you basically have to keep that guy around.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

I got shit on alot for my "we should sign OBJ" takes when they were never really based on him being a great LT.

It's that.....shit there just aren't many of them. We can't seem to figure out how to draft and develop one, I dunno if it's what we're looking for or what is happening there (it's the same at DE it seems like) so it was kinda "ride with who brought you".

LT/QB and somewhat DE are just spots that there aren't alot of people that can do it at a very high level. So if you have one that can, even if it's just in spurts, you basically have to keep that guy around.

Yeah, by the time FA rolled around, I was fine keeping him. KC and OBJ had reached an unhappy truce regarding how he plays and how it works with how we play.

He was never going to be that premier athlete that locks up the arc, but he'd figured out how to use his length to be credible there and then lean in pure bulk to keep the inside mostly clean.

He'd have still struggled in that game against Denver when Bonitto had a rocket up his ass, IMO, but he'd have been fine otherwise.

Both sides saw greener pastures and both sides probably made decisions that made them worse off for it. Is what it is.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Yeah, by the time FA rolled around, I was fine keeping him. KC and OBJ had reached an unhappy truce regarding how he plays and how it works with how we play.

He was never going to be that premier athlete that locks up the arc, but he'd figured out how to use his length to be credible there and then lean in pure bulk to keep the inside mostly clean.

He'd have still struggled in that game against Denver when Bonitto had a rocket up his ass, IMO, but he'd have been fine otherwise.

Both sides saw greener pastures and both sides probably made decisions that made them worse off for it. Is what it is.

What I keep falling back on, is that sure, I'd love to have that LT that we can throw out there on and island and just not worry about it.

But hell......how many of those guys are there in the league these days? 2 maybe?

As we've seen, Pat needs to trust whoever is out that or he gets wound up and leaves pockets. I get it, he gets hit alot, so it makes sense but he trusted OBJ.

[New World Order]

Originally Posted by Dante84

Jawaan is the biggest albatross on our cap, dollars for production. Similar to Frank a few years back.

With that said, I'd bet every team in the league has at least one contract that they'd like to have back at any given time.

Yep.

A tackle that hasn’t been good and wracks up penalties can kill drives and even worse get your prized qb injured.