Joe "Cool" and being elite? Yeah, no.

[mr. tegu]

I admit I realize I have been overestimating him like many others. He is quite good but elite he is not and he definitely hasn't earned his "cool" moniker. And I have heard multiple pundits now say, even after yesterday he is a better QB than Mahomes, but Mahomes is the better player. Talk about moving the goalposts to fit your narrative.

I will give him credit for the Brady comparison though as he has absolutely been carried by his defense and luck like Brady was in his earlier years in winning playoff games. But Burrow isn't as clutch as Brady was even back then.

And for those who think he is even close to Mahomes:

Burrow 0 times 30 point postseason games to Mahomes 8
300 yard games is 1 to 7
TD drives in fourth quarter is a whopping 0 to 14

Good old Nick Wright has more in the video but here is a picture with the most relevant part of Burrow's fourth quarter stats in the postseason. It's remarkable the Bengals have won any games honestly in the postseason.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by DRM08

I mean no QB has a perfect game every time. There are plenty of examples of Tom Brady looking like shit for instance. Chiefs DL finally got some pressure on Burrow. They were aided by the injuries on the Cincy OL, very similar to how Tampa’s pass rush gained a big advantage when Mahomes’ OL got wiped out with injuries.

It wasn't just pass rush. They completely changed how they played the Bengals in the secondary.

Spags dialed up a gameplan that didn't fear Chase. They played man, they doubled, they showed one thing and did another. He couldn't diagnose shit. Similar to the Ravens. Our pass rush only REALLY kicked ass in the 1st and 4th qtrs.

Joe Burrow is good at slicing up zones that sit back in fear of his WR's, like the Bills did.

Way too much is being made of his play diagnosis acumen. He ain't no Brady yet. He's not even Mahomes yet in that department.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Look at the whole body of work though.

In his first year as a starter, Mahomes had one of the best 2nd halves in playoff history, forcing the Patriots to overtime only to lose because of the defense.

In his 2nd year as a starter, there was the magical TD run to beat the Titans in the AFCCG and then he hit WASP to win the Super Bowl after being down and seemingly out against the 49ers.

In his 3rd year, against the purportedly unstoppable Bills, he put up 325 yards, 3 TD's and 0 INT's.

The only time he's REALLY choked in a big game situation was last year's AFCCG. And if you want to nitpick, there was the SB against the Bucs.

If you want to break down Josh Allen in the postseason, his resume looks more similar to Mahomes than probably anybody else.

On the other hand, Joe Burrow has done it exactly once and that was last year's AFCCG. He's never really had to do anything special to win in the playoffs. And when they needed him to be special, pick up the team, and will them to victory (against the Rams and again last Sunday) he couldn't do it.

And you can't just blame on the line. Mahomes has been harassed constantly. Both tackles were bottom in the league in pressures given up, yet were near the top in the league in sacks given up.

If Mahomes is elite, then IMHO Burrow CAN'T be.

I definitely think Burrow has gotten way more help from his defense than either Mahomes or Allen in playoff games. Joe has 2 playoff losses where the Cincy defense only gave up 23 points each time. Mahomes has 3 playoff losses where the KC defense gave up 32 points per game. Allen has 3 playoff losses where the Buffalo defense gave up 36 points per game.

[AdolfOliverBush]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

It wasn't just pass rush. They completely changed how they played the Bengals in the secondary.

Spags dialed up a gameplan that didn't fear Chase. They played man, they doubled, they showed one thing and did another. He couldn't diagnose shit. Similar to the Ravens. Our pass rush only REALLY kicked ass in the 1st and 4th qtrs.

Joe Burrow is good at slicing up zones that sit back in fear of his WR's, like the Bills did.

Way too much is being made of his play diagnosis acumen. He ain't no Brady yet. He's not even Mahomes yet in that department.

Even a numbnuts like Kirk Cousins would look like the second coming with that WR corps.

At least Allen has some elite physical characteristics that we haven't seen in a QB with his size and passing ability before.

Allen > Burrow, and it isn't particularly close.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by AdolfOliverBush

Even a numbnuts like Kirk Cousins would look like the second coming with that WR corps.

Exactly. I said this exact thing yesterday - that Burrow without Chase and Higgins is like Cousins before he had JJ.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by mr. tegu

You think putting up regular season numbers and being carried by defense through the playoffs, then when the team needs you, the QB, the most you fail on the last 5 drives in the Super Bowl to score anything and fail on the last 2 in the AFC championship to score anything makes for an elite QB. I don’t.

You're pushing Chiefsfanatic for dumbest football analysis this postseason.

This is a stupid argument.

Moronic.

Burrow is QB2 on most analyists list, and no lower than QB3 on ****ing anybody's list, and arguing that's not elite is just ****ing stupid.

[Chris Meck]

Kirk Cousins has nocturnal ejaculations dreaming of that kind of accuracy and ball placement.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Kirk Cousins has nocturnal ejaculations dreaming of that kind of accuracy and ball placement.

Not really. I'm in Vikings country and see a lot of their games. When the pressure is down and the team is loose, Cousins has some pretty nice touch on the ball. He looks REALLY good.

The problem is that Cousins is the exact opposite of clutch. When the lights get bright and the squeeze is real, he shits down his leg more often than not.

[Skyy God]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Not really. I'm in Vikings country and see a lot of their games. When the pressure is down and the team is loose, Cousins has some pretty nice touch on the ball. He looks REALLY good.

The problem is that Cousins is the exact opposite of clutch. When the lights get bright and the squeeze is real, he shits down his leg more often than not.

Cousins plays in the clutch like he grills.

https://www.sbnation.com/platform/am...-of-july-grill

[AdolfOliverBush]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Kirk Cousins has nocturnal ejaculations dreaming of that kind of accuracy and ball placement.

Great. Alex Smith had the same traits. Too bad he didn't have 2-3 #1 WRs.

[mr. tegu]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

You're pushing Chiefsfanatic for dumbest football analysis this postseason.

This is a stupid argument.

Moronic.

Burrow is QB2 on most analyists list, and no lower than QB3 on ****ing anybody's list, and arguing that's not elite is just ****ing stupid.

It’s not stupid to expect someone with an elite label to have earned it. He hasn’t earned it by any reasonable measure, especially in the post season. Go back and pick out Burrow from my list and tell me why he is elite but those other three aren’t, or I guess you can label them all elite and reveal a catastrophic bias.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by AdolfOliverBush

Great. Alex Smith had the same traits. Too bad he didn't have 2-3 #1 WRs.

Oh dude, REERUN.


Alex Smith was never anywhere near Burrow.

You guys are really letting your Bengals hatred cloud any sort of judgement whatsoever.

You want to talk about Burrow not getting a ring, okay, that's a legit argument for not being in MAHOMES class, but you absolutely cannot claim that he's not an elite QB.

This is dumb.

Mahomes is legitimately in the discussion for the best to ever play and he's 27 years old.

This is totally skewing your ability to see anything around that with any objectivity.

The test is this-

If Mahomes did not exist, what QB would you want if you could take anyone in football?

Maybe you say Josh Allen. Maybe you say Burrow. But hardly anyone has another answer to that question.

[PunkinDrublic]

He’s an elite QB and he’s proven it in college and the NFL. That being said he doesn’t get the same scrutiny that Mahomes got. Mahomes first two years it was “he’s great but he has the benefit of playing with Tyreek, Kelce, Watkins and Hardman”. I’ve never heard anyone say Burrow is great but he has continuity with an all world receiver he’s played with since college, as well as Tee Higgins and a damn good TE. Easy to be “Joe Cool” with an athletic freak who can out muscle most DBs for the ball and gets away with pushing off.

[Chris Meck]

Look, I didn't even like Burrow as an NFL prospect, really. I thought he was a one year wonder who played on a loaded team. I thought he was way overhyped.

But that guy doesn't throw dimes, he throws ****ing pebbles. Those aren't 50/50 balls, they're 80/20 and it's not all due to the WR's although they're great, but look again. There's no separation. Burrow just puts it in a six inch window from 30 yards away on the fly, and he does it regularly.

He's great. And in any other situation, we'd love that guy so much it would hurt.

But we've got Mahomes, and that's a whole different situation.
Burrow is QB2.

[Hamwallet]

Joe Burrow is absolutely an elite QB. Stop with this BS.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Look, I didn't even like Burrow as an NFL prospect, really. I thought he was a one year wonder who played on a loaded team. I thought he was way overhyped.

But that guy doesn't throw dimes, he throws ****ing pebbles. Those aren't 50/50 balls, they're 80/20 and it's not all due to the WR's although they're great, but look again. There's no separation. Burrow just puts it in a six inch window from 30 yards away on the fly, and he does it regularly.

He's great. And in any other situation, we'd love that guy so much it would hurt.

But we've got Mahomes, and that's a whole different situation.
Burrow is QB2.

Burrow is extremely accurate. He has a million times better mobility than your typical pocket passers like Brady. And he has a pretty strong arm as well. Their offense will continue to be very good with Burrow & Chase for many years.

I do think Burrow gets a lot of help from the defense, which is the main thing where I don't like the media narratives. It is not all about the QB, but they sure as hell try to make it seem that way. When your defense gives up less than 19 points per game (and no more than 23 points in any game) for 2 straight Playoff years, you are going to have a very solid chance to win every game.