2013 Kansas City Royals Repository Thread

[duncan_idaho]

Proposed 2013 Slogan: Tigers: They're what's for dinner
Actual 2013 Slogan: Come to Play
A better, more accurate, or alternative slogan: All in, no panic, we promise.

Dayton Moore has pushed all his chips in and is riding on King/Jack suited, hoping it comes together, he gets some good luck, and he hits the nuts by the river card. There's potential, oh yes, there's potential. There's also risk.

At the midway point, Dayton is left counting on the river card. The flop and turn didn't help him, and he's looking at the Tigers holding a pair of Queens and the Indians holding a pair of 9s. His 2013 plan hasn't failed - yet - but the odds are not in his favor.

Burning questions updates below.

Burning Questions for 2013:

1) Will the improve rotation be improved enough? Does James Shields pitch like a fringe No. 1 away from Tampa Bay? Does Ervin Santana pitch to his highest upside in his walk year? Can Jeremy Guthrie build on his strong performance as a Royal in 2012? Can Wade Davis bring his new mentality- and velocity - back to the rotation?

Midseason check-in: Yes, the rotation is certainly improved enough. Shields has pitched like a fringe No. 1 and Santana is having his best season. Guthrie has horrible peripherals but has continued to perform well at his home park and eat innings on the road. Davis brought neither his kick-ass mentality or improved velocity back to the rotation and is in Luke Hochevar/Hiram Davies territory.

2) When will Luke Hochevar be shown the door?
Midseason check-in: It appears, never, at this point. Hochevar has been solid in non-leverage situations, though pretty much every time he has been used with men on base in an inning, it has been a disaster.

3) Does Hosmer bounce back?
Midseason check-in: It took some time, but Hosmer's performance from June 1 on is probably the most encouraging thing about the 2013 season so far.
4) Can Moustakas hit for a whole season like he did in the first half of 2012?
Midseason check-in: Nope. Moustakas was god-awful, then great for about 3 weeks, then god-awful again. He has been better since he started working with Brett and Grafol but still has a long way to go.
5) Who regresses?
Midseason check-in: Welp, Alicides Escobar is not a surprising name here (though Yost's stubborn insistence on hitting him second is ridiculous). Billy Butler is a surprise. He isn't having a terrible year - still contributing a lot to the offense - but he's not hitting for the average or power he has displayed over the past several years.
6) Who plays 2B?
Midseason check-in: A whole bunch of people, and not that great. Gio is at least getting a shot, though he once again is not doing much with it.
7) Can Jeff Francoeur be at least replacement level, rather than epic horrible level?
Midseason check-in: Hahahahahahahahahahaha
8) Will Dayton Moore survive to see 2014?
Midseason check-in: Outlook uncertain. Probably still around, unless the team completely tanks in the second half and he does something foolish. My guess - he sacrifices Ned Yost this offseason and gets one more shot with a new manager in 2014.
9) Will Danny Duffy come back healthy? And if he does, is he the same, better or worse?
Midseason check-in: Yes. Velocity looks the same, and it looks likely he is the same guy as before.
10) And the big one: Has KC added enough to run down the big-money Detroit Tigers?
Midseason check-in: Doesn't look like it, does it?

[Fansy the Famous Bard]

the fact that he puts Johnson in there is absolutely laughable.

[Fansy the Famous Bard]

If he had said Rivera, Grilli, Nathan, Mujica, Kimbrel, Romo, Balfour, Papelbon, Henderson, and Wilhelmsen his statement could have merit... the inclusion of Johnson makes anyone with half a brain roll their eyes and chuckle.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

Originally Posted by Zeke

the fact that he puts Johnson in there is absolutely laughable.

Call me when your boy has a 50 plus save season. Jim Johnson on pace for another 50 save season 1 bad week of Johnson in 2013 doesn't make Holland better.

[Ceej]

Originally Posted by ChiefsandO'sfan

Call me when your boy has a 50 plus save season. Jim Johnson on pace for another 50 save season 1 bad week of Johnson in 2013 doesn't make Holland better.

Unga bunga, caveman.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by ChiefsandO'sfan

Call me when your boy has a 50 plus save season. Jim Johnson on pace for another 50 save season 1 bad week of Johnson in 2013 doesn't make Holland better.

Lance Lynn had more Ws last year than Justin Verlander. Does that make him a better pitcher?

Ws, Ss, Rs, RBI.... all stats that are dependent on teammates.

It's nice Jim Johnson saved 50+ last year... but he still doesn't stack up well in advanced value measurements (23rd overall in 2012). He's saving a ton of games because he's getting a ton of opportunities. You can put a lot of other closers in that spot and get the same (or better) results.

Holland is better at every aspect of pitching except for limiting walks (he walks about 2x as many guys as Johnson but strikes out 2.5x as many guys). He crushes Johnson in a lot of the key metrics for relievers (K:9, K:rate, xFIP). And I mean crushes. As in "not close."

But still, it's not what was really funny about your statement. It was including ALL of those guys with the likes of Rivera and Papelbon and Kimbrel. Most of them are at least having seasons that put them in elite territory. Johnson is not.

Lots of guys have had seasons where they were brilliant before falling off. Time will tell if guys like Grilli, Mujica, Reed, etc. can sustain it. That's what separates guys like Papelbon, Kimbrel and Rivera.

Greg Holland is an excellent reliever. Only Jon Papelbon and Kimbrel have contributed more WAR since 2011, when both Johnson and Holland seem to have found their stride. Mariano Rivera is likely above him as well, without the injury last season.

[RockChalk]

C&O'sFan is like that kid at recess that bounces from sport to sport on the playground. Always the last pick and nobody wants him around, even though he does have moments where he plays mildly decent.

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by Zeke

If he had said Rivera, Grilli, Nathan, Mujica, Kimbrel, Romo, Balfour, Papelbon, Henderson, and Wilhelmsen his statement could have merit... the inclusion of Johnson makes anyone with half a brain roll their eyes and chuckle.

I had to pull up a list all the closers in baseball because I couldn't think of what other Johnson he may have been talking about

[mr. tegu]

As we all knew pretty well about Guthrie when we got him, he is built to pitch in Kauffman.

At home: 5 games, 4-1, .205 BA, .612 OPS, 2.78 ERA
Away: 7 games, 2-2, .315 BA, .928 OPS, 4.40 ERA

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Lance Lynn had more Ws last year than Justin Verlander. Does that make him a better pitcher?

Ws, Ss, Rs, RBI.... all stats that are dependent on teammates.

It's nice Jim Johnson saved 50+ last year... but he still doesn't stack up well in advanced value measurements (23rd overall in 2012). He's saving a ton of games because he's getting a ton of opportunities. You can put a lot of other closers in that spot and get the same (or better) results.

Holland is better at every aspect of pitching except for limiting walks (he walks about 2x as many guys as Johnson but strikes out 2.5x as many guys). He crushes Johnson in a lot of the key metrics for relievers (K:9, K:rate, xFIP). And I mean crushes. As in "not close."

But still, it's not what was really funny about your statement. It was including ALL of those guys with the likes of Rivera and Papelbon and Kimbrel. Most of them are at least having seasons that put them in elite territory. Johnson is not.

Lots of guys have had seasons where they were brilliant before falling off. Time will tell if guys like Grilli, Mujica, Reed, etc. can sustain it. That's what separates guys like Papelbon, Kimbrel and Rivera.

Greg Holland is an excellent reliever. Only Jon Papelbon and Kimbrel have contributed more WAR since 2011, when both Johnson and Holland seem to have found their stride. Mariano Rivera is likely above him as well, without the injury last season.

Not getting into this with you. Just a heads up Johnson not a SO pitcher so i really don't care about that stat. Most GM in baseball would take Johnson over Holland. Gotta love Royal fans got the best player at every position yet every year still 15 to 20 games under .500.

[Prison Bitch]

Johnson has .2 war vs Holland at .8

Even last year Johnson was only 1.2 vs Holland at 2.2.

[mr. tegu]

Originally Posted by ChiefsandO'sfan

Not getting into this with you. Just a heads up Johnson not a SO pitcher so i really don't care about that stat. Most GM in baseball would take Johnson over Holland. Gotta love Royal fans got the best player at every position yet every year still 15 to 20 games under .500.

Based on what?

[Three7s]

Originally Posted by ChiefsandO'sfan

Not getting into this with you. Just a heads up Johnson not a SO pitcher so i really don't care about that stat. Most GM in baseball would take Johnson over Holland. Gotta love Royal fans got the best player at every position yet every year still 15 to 20 games under .500.

Do you like talking out of your ass?

Most of our players suck ass. The reason you're getting blasted is because Holland ISN'T ONE OF THEM!

Is that easy enough for you to understand or do I need to dumb it down for you more?

[Fansy the Famous Bard]

Originally Posted by ChiefsandO'sfan

Not getting into this with you. Just a heads up Johnson not a SO pitcher so i really don't care about that stat. Most GM in baseball would take Johnson over Holland. Gotta love Royal fans got the best player at every position yet every year still 15 to 20 games under .500.

The definition of Irony. 1 winning season of baseball in 12 years being used as the basis for his baseball knowledge and pedigree to talk down to the Royals fans who also have 1 winning season of baseball in the last 12 years.

As if both franchises being amongst the worst in MLB having anything to do with the discussion at hand.

BTW, I love the strawman argument you threw in there. That was right on queue with simply marvelous anticipation and timing.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by ChiefsandO'sfan

Not getting into this with you. Just a heads up Johnson not a SO pitcher so i really don't care about that stat. Most GM in baseball would take Johnson over Holland. Gotta love Royal fans got the best player at every position yet every year still 15 to 20 games under .500.

Greg Holland is one of the best relievers in baseball.

Go back 3 years. Look at whatever advanced stat you want to look at:

WAR
K rate
K:9
K:BB
FIP

You'll see Greg Holland dotting top 10s all over the place.

And even with all of that in place, I still wouldn't put him in the same territory as Papelbon, Kimbrel and Rivera because of the longevity/consistency issue.

I'd feel fine saying he's one of the 10 or so best closers in MLB.

Jim Johnson has saved a bunch of games the past year and a half. And that's a good accomplishment. But he doesn't have the high K ability to be a truly elite, lights-out closer.

Jim Johnson is good. He's effective. But he's not all that special (and I doubt he's a guy who's an above-average closer for a long period of time... groundball specialists just don't stick in that spot very often or for very long)

[mr. tegu]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Greg Holland is one of the best relievers in baseball.

Go back 3 years. Look at whatever advanced stat you want to look at:

WAR
K rate
K:9
K:BB
FIP

You'll see Greg Holland dotting top 10s all over the place.

And even with all of that in place, I still wouldn't put him in the same territory as Papelbon, Kimbrel and Rivera because of the longevity/consistency issue.

I'd feel fine saying he's one of the 10 or so best closers in MLB.

Jim Johnson has saved a bunch of games the past year and a half. And that's a good accomplishment. But he doesn't have the high K ability to be a truly elite, lights-out closer.

Jim Johnson is good. He's effective. But he's not all that special (and I doubt he's a guy who's an above-average closer for a long period of time... groundball specialists just don't stick in that spot very often or for very long)

Come on, you know strikeouts don't matter.