***2012 NHL Offseason Thread***

[Rams Fan]

Draft is tonight in Pittsburgh.

If Nail doesn't go to Edmonton, I will laugh.

[Predarat]

Here is a message I pulled from the Preds board, hope these folks can make some noise.

Howdy, folks. I'm a Red Wings fan from Texas, and lately I've been going around the league's message boards trying to consolidate ideas coming from fans interested in ending this lockout. There's a lot of bickering going on about who to blame, but I'm confident that every one of you will agree that we want to see some NHL hockey played, and the sooner the better.

Some folks on the Hurricanes message boards are drawing a line in the sand to cancel their season tickets if the lockout is not resolved by Thanksgiving. We could all be doing much more enjoyable things with our money during the holiday season than letting a league that takes its fans for granted hold onto it. If you're a season ticket holder call or email your ticket rep and let them know that you intend to do this along with fans in multiple markets. The threat alone might be enough to encourage owners to move towards the middle, and if we followed through it would undoubtedly shake the alleged 100% unanimity of owners in support of the lockout. This is especially true for small- and struggling-market teams. In particular, one that has to pay Shea Weber millions of dollars whether there's a season or not.

A Blackhawks fan posted a link that lists many other businesses of NHL team owners for those who aren't season ticket holders, but are interested in taking the boycott route. If all these people care about is their bottom line, hurt their bottom line all the way across the board.

http://youhavetwoweeks.com/index.html

I think the Janne Makkonen video touched a telling nerve for many, and the petition associated with it is certainly worth signing, but it seems to me that we need to hit the NHL more directly.

To that end I suggest we start a website whose primary goal will be to divert traffic away from NHL.com and the team sites that they host. Dallas Stars fans came up with a great name: National Hockey League Fans Union, or NHLFU. It can be very simple, stating on the front page "The NHL has been locked out for X days, resulting in X canceled games, and that's all I care about." I'm no web designer and haven't got the money to spare for hosting domains, but it's entirely possible that if we set up a message board where fans from all 30 markets can come to vent, plan actions, and get all of their hockey news from a source that doesn't generate ad-traffic for "the bosses" we can make our presence felt now, rather than waiting passively for the end of the lockout to launch boycotts. We might even be able to get some players to help out. Don't read their articles about how great the NHL used to be, or what coaches and owners and players and Zamboni drivers think about the latest developments in negotiations. We don't care. We care about hockey, and that's all we want from you people.

Let's make hockey happen, y'all.

[KC_Lee]

Originally Posted by Predarat

Here is a message I pulled from the Preds board, hope these folks can make some noise.

While I support this idea it really does not work for our Preds. Unlike every other NHL team, the season ticket split (individuals vs. corporate STH) is opposite in Nashville.

I don't recall the exact percentage but I think that STH in Nashville is 70% individuals and 30% corporate STH.

Am I stating that correctly?

[Predarat]

Originally Posted by KC_Lee

While I support this idea it really does not work for our Preds. Unlike every other NHL team, the season ticket split (individuals vs. corporate STH) is opposite in Nashville.

I don't recall the exact percentage but I think that STH in Nashville is 70% individuals and 30% corporate STH.

Am I stating that correctly?

You are right on with that, hoping the fans will ask for their money back though, that can help. Actually hope they get this damn thing resolved.

[Bearcat]

Bettman uses lockouts as a bargaining chip and I don't see it getting resolved by Thanksgiving... IMO, the push to cancel season tickets should already be happening, because the owners know they'll already lose half the season or more in ticket sales.

Between playing NHL13 way too much and college hockey starting this weekend (along with CFB, the NFL, MLB postseason...), I just don't care at the moment. The owners should know the players aren't going to fold for anything less than 50% and the players should know they owners aren't going to accept anything more than 50-52%.... but, let's spend a few months or an entire season talking about 43% or 55% or whatever... GFY.

[DaFace]

In case you guys haven't heard, it looks like there's been sudden positive movement in negotiations between the NHL and the NHLPA. There are way too many points to list here (just Google it), but the but the main thing from a fan perspective is that they could potentially salvage a full 82-game season if they get this done - starting in early November.

Keep your fingers crossed.

[ChiefMojo]

Great news! Heard about the proposed 50/50 split by the owners. Guess a big sticking point from the NHLPA is the contract rollover aspect. Players don't want their new contracts just signed torn up.

[Bearcat]

Maybe I'm just too grumpy about the whole thing, but this could have happened three freakin' months ago.... 3 months of posturing and ridiculous offers maybe saved the owners 2-3%, and now the players take all the heat if they don't jump on board. Well played by the owners, I guess. Let's do it again in 6 years.

[Bearcat]

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/85...-step-backward

NHL unhappy with union response
Updated: October 18, 2012, 6:03 PM ET
ESPN.com news services

TORONTO -- NHL commissioner Gary Bettman received three counterproposals from the players' association on Thursday and left the negotiating table "thoroughly disappointed."

No new talks have been scheduled, and the possibility of a full hockey regular season is quickly shrinking.

"Today is not a good day," NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr said.

Thursday's meetings, according to Bettman, were a "step backward," while Fehr insists the NHL was only willing to work off its offer from Tuesday, rejecting the players' three counteroffers.

The union offered multiple options in response to the NHL's offer on Tuesday that called for an 82-game season and a 50-50 split of hockey-related revenues between owners and players.

Said Blues captain David Backes in a text to ESPN.com: "We feel our newest proposal took a great step toward getting a deal done. It's too bad the owners don't feel that way and I fear that we may miss an extended amount of time now."

Bettman said that proposal was the "best that we could do" and added that the two sides are still far apart.

"None of the three variations of player share that they gave us even began to approach 50-50, either at all or for some long period of time," Bettman said.

"It's clear we're not speaking the same language."

Fehr described the union's three offers, saying that depending on revenue growth, the NHLPA's first proposal does go down to 50 percent eventually; proposal No. 2 gets owners down to 50 percent with "only 5 percent growth," while No. 3 saw the players go 50-50, as long as the owners promised to honor all contracts that were signed by players.

Bettman said he was still hopeful the league can have a full season, but time is running out to make that happen.

"I am concerned based on the proposal that was made today that things are not progressing," he said. "To the contrary, I view the proposal made by the players' association in many ways a step backward."

Bettman said Tuesday the sides would have to reach an agreement by Oct. 25 for a full season to be played.

NHL players showed up in force Thursday as the union responded to the league's proposal.

“ We feel our newest proposal took a great step toward getting a deal done. It's too bad the owners don't feel that way and I fear that we may miss an extended amount of time now.
” -- Blue captain David Backes

Among the 18 players at the talks were Sidney Crosby, Jarome Iginla, Jonathan Toews and Eric Staal. The scene looked similar to one in August when the union made its first proposal.

"Simply put, the owners' new proposal, while not quite as draconian as their previous proposals, still represents enormous reductions in player salaries and individual contracting rights," Fehr said in response to the league's offer. "As you will see, at the 5 percent industry growth rate the owners predict, the salary reduction over six years exceeds $1.6 billion.

"What do the owners offer in return?"

The NHLPA scheduled a 5 p.m. ET conference call again with its negotiating committee and executive board.

Crosby called Thursday's offers "significant."

"That follows a pattern we've displayed coming into this negotiation. We're willing to negotiate," he said. "It's pretty disappointing we're at this point."

The lockout -- the third of the Bettman era -- began Sept. 16, and the league canceled regular-season games through Oct. 24. Bettman, in announcing the new proposal, called it "a fair offer for a long-term deal" and "one that we hope gets a positive reaction."

But the clock is ticking. There is only one week to strike a deal for the season to start by Nov. 2, three weeks behind schedule. If those deadlines are met, teams would be able to hold makeshift training camps for one week, then play one extra game every five weeks to make up for the lost time and complete a full slate.

In releasing the details, the NHL confirmed the offer is for six years with a mutual option for a seventh. The plan includes a 50-50 split in hockey-related revenue, which is a step forward. The NHL had proposed in July to cut the percentage of HRR from 57 percent to 43, then increased its offer in September to about 47.

Management included a provision to ensure players receive all money promised in existing contracts, but the union is concerned with what management termed the "make-whole provision." If the players' share falls short of their $1.883 billion in 2011-12, the players would be paid up to $149 million of deferred compensation in the first year of a new deal and up to $62 million in the second. However, the union believes that money would be counted against the players' share in later years.

The latest league proposal also includes:

• A listed salary cap of $59.9 million for the 2012-13 season, with a provision each team could spend up to $70.2 million during a transition season.

• Changing eligibility for unrestricted free agency from age 27 or seven years of service to age 28 or eight years of service, down from 10 years of service in the league's earlier proposal.

• Increasing eligibility for salary arbitration from four years to five years.

• Including all years of existing contracts beyond five years against a team's cap, regardless of where a player is playing. If a player is traded and retires or stops playing, the applicable cap charge would be applied against the team that originally signed the contact.

• The reduction of entry-level contracts to two years.

• A term limit of five years on any future contracts and a stipulation that the average annual value can vary only up to 5 percent. This mechanism is designed to eliminate long-term, back-loaded contracts. The NHL wants to prohibit lengthy deals, such as the $98 million, 13-year contracts Minnesota agreed to in July with forward Zach Parise and defenseman Ryan Suter.

• The elimination of re-entry waivers.

• Increasing the annual revenue-sharing pool by 33 percent to $200 million, assuming annual league revenue of $3.033 billion, with a provision that half the pool be funded by the 10 teams with the highest gross revenue. A cutout against clubs in large media markets, such as Anaheim, New Jersey and the New York Islanders, and clawbacks against not selling enough tickets would be eliminated. A new revenue-sharing committee, which would include NHLPA representation, would have input to determine distribution.

Among the items not addressed in the league's public detailing of its offer were realignment, drug testing and the NHL's participation in the 2014 Olympics in Sochi, Russia.

Information from ESPN.com's Pierre LeBrun, ESPNNewYork.com's Katie Strang and The Associated Press was used in this report.

[DaFace]

Not surprising really, but disappointing. Idiots.

That's OK, I'm headed out tomorrow night for the inaugural Denver Cutthroats game. Here's hoping it's good entertainment if nothing else.

[Bearcat]

Looks like the counter offers are all 50/50 with conditions, which sounds reasonable for taking a 7% hit.

Not a big fan of the CHL as far as the quality of hockey, but the fights can be entertaining.

[DaFace]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Looks like the counter offers are all 50/50 with conditions, which sounds reasonable for taking a 7% hit.

Not a big fan of the CHL as far as the quality of hockey, but the fights can be entertaining.

Yeah, I agree that the counter offers don't seem that bad given the salary decrease, but who knows anymore.

As for the CHL, my hope is that the atmosphere is fun more than anything. Tix start at like $12, so it's an easy thing to get into going frequently if it's fun. And at least they're now an Avs affiliate, so there's a remote chance I might eventually see one of the guys play in the big league.

Oh, and Kyle Quincy is playing for them during the lockout. That should be interesting to watch. Hope he doesn't get his head knocked off.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by DaFace

Yeah, I agree that the counter offers don't seem that bad given the salary decrease, but who knows anymore.

As for the CHL, my hope is that the atmosphere is fun more than anything. Tix start at like $12, so it's an easy thing to get into going frequently if it's fun. And at least they're now an Avs affiliate, so there's a remote chance I might eventually see one of the guys play in the big league.

Oh, and Kyle Quincy is playing for them during the lockout. That should be interesting to watch. Hope he doesn't get his head knocked off.

The affiliate thing is cool... the MO Mavs, who are also in the CHL, are affiliates with the Chicago Wolves, and they're affiliated with the Canucks. Boo.

When I went to a MO Mavs game a couple of years ago, the Mavs turned the opening faceoff win into a 2 on 0, and the pass across the crease went off the guy's stick and they didn't even get a shot on net. But, it's in a small arena that only fits like 5-6,000 people, so it was a good atmosphere. And like you said, it's cheap.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Greedy ****s

[DaFace]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

The affiliate thing is cool... the MO Mavs, who are also in the CHL, are affiliates with the Chicago Wolves, and they're affiliated with the Canucks. Boo.

When I went to a MO Mavs game a couple of years ago, the Mavs turned the opening faceoff win into a 2 on 0, and the pass across the crease went off the guy's stick and they didn't even get a shot on net. But, it's in a small arena that only fits like 5-6,000 people, so it was a good atmosphere. And like you said, it's cheap.

Yeah, that's all I'm hoping for. I went to a couple CHL games back when the Rocky Mountain Rage were around, so I have a pretty good idea of what to expect. But still, hockey is hockey.

[Discuss Thrower]

Perhaps I'm naive, but would it be feasible for both the union and the league to agree to a "non-profit" season to get the players back on the ice while the lawyers keep working on a deal. Something like salaries are all even for every squad, very limited FA moves, and costs are covered for operations and any "profit" is locked away for divying up later.