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Old 08-05-2012, 08:09 AM  
OnTheWarpath15 OnTheWarpath15 is offline
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Andy Reid's oldest found dead at Training Camp
Per NFLN. No link.

Found dead in his room at Lehigh University. No signs of foul play.
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Old 08-05-2012, 03:33 PM   #61
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If we're talking about coaching success, the pinnacle is obviously the SB. Ditka gets way more credit than deserved based on the 85 Bears. Marty doesn't get near the respect he deserves because,... well, obviously.

I think we kind of agree here - we're just using different measuring sticks. I'm looking at the total picture with heavy weight given to SB wins and development put towards SB teams. You give heavier weight to a gameday coach and you're grading based on guys you would want coaching your team.
Not sure how you came to that conclusion (guys I want coaching my team).

I don't want any of those guys coaoching my team.

The only guy that has been mentioned in this thread that I would consider is Billick, because he showed an ability to adapt to his team's strengths that none of the others ever did.

I also don't believe that Dungy did as much to develop SB teams as the perception, since both the Bucs and Colts had the core groups in place before he was hired.
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Old 08-05-2012, 03:55 PM   #62
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I also don't believe that Dungy did as much to develop SB teams as the perception, since both the Bucs and Colts had the core groups in place before he was hired.
That's fine, but the Buccaneers were basically the Royals of the NFL before he arrived there. You can't discredit that.
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Old 08-05-2012, 04:13 PM   #63
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If I owned that team, I'd work a severance out. Reid needs to siddown.
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Old 08-05-2012, 04:21 PM   #64
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If I owned that team, I'd work a severance out. Reid needs to siddown.
Well, that's obviously a personal decision, but its got to be tough to be a successful NFL head coach and devote time to your kids as well.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:45 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by milkman View Post
Not sure how you came to that conclusion (guys I want coaching my team).

I don't want any of those guys coaoching my team.

The only guy that has been mentioned in this thread that I would consider is Billick, because he showed an ability to adapt to his team's strengths that none of the others ever did.
My point is that I'm looking from the 10,000 foot view and total body of work. You're not weighting as heavily as I am for overall record and postseason success.

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I also don't believe that Dungy did as much to develop SB teams as the perception, since both the Bucs and Colts had the core groups in place before he was hired.
That argument doesn't fly for me. Dungy was in Tampa 6 years and the Bucs won the SB the year he left. If that team wasn't developed by Dungy then who developed it? Same argument for Indy - Dungy was there 4 years and they won it all his 5th year. You think Dungy's fingerprints weren't all over that team in 5 years despite the fact Harrison and Manning predated Dungy's arrival?
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:52 PM   #66
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I give Dungy credit just because the Bucs had been bad for so long... that was a place where there really was a culture of losing, kind of like the Royals have had. He really did have to change the mindset of that entire franchise.
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:20 PM   #67
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We're obviously not going to match up exact dynamics when comparing any coach career. My entire point is that Dungy isn't an elite head coach. Based on his product across 2 teams, he's 2nd tier as a SB winner. If you're putting him there (as I think most reasonable people do), I don't think that's overrating him.

Besides, Ditka would have traded Manning for Ricky Williams. Now there's an overrated HC. Great player. But won a SB on the back of Buddy Ryan then did nothing in New Orleans. Without Buddy Ryan, Ditka was essentially Marty.
Out of the four coaches I'd go

1. Billick
2. Marty
3. Dungy
4. Ditka

Ditka is last for the reasons you just mentioned, which are spot on IMO. I already gave my say on Dungy earlier. I absolutely HATE putting Billick above Marty, take out one year and Marty's body of work/accomplishments is at least double that of Billick's.

Billick won a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer as his QB though. so, by default, he goes straight to number 1. a few other home field advantage/afl championship appearances didnt hurt either
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:24 PM   #68
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I absolutely HATE putting Billick above Marty, take out one year and Marty's body of work/accomplishments is at least double that of Billick's.

Billick won a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer as his QB though. so, by default, he goes straight to number 1. a few other home field advantage/afl championship appearances didnt hurt either
Maybe there should be a seperate category for Marty? He truly is one of the best "regular season" HC's of all time, maybe the best. He definately had a knack for turning dead franchises around.
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Matt once made a very nice play in Seattle where he spun away from a pass rusher and hit Bowe off his back foot for a first down.

One of the best plays Matt has ever made.
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:31 PM   #69
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Maybe there should be a seperate category for Marty? He truly is one of the best "regular season" HC's of all time, maybe the best. He definately had a knack for turning dead franchises around.
the way he lost his playoff games really does borderline on a curse -

3 missed field goals in one game
a phantom non call push out of bounds
a pass intercepted on 4th down and fumbled away with the lead and less than 2 minutes
the drive

not saying he doesnt take responsibility but damn...the last one against NE in SD was just vomit inducing for a Marty fan
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:32 PM   #70
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:34 PM   #71
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the way he lost his playoff games really does borderline on a curse -

3 missed field goals in one game
a phantom non call push out of bounds
a pass intercepted on 4th down and fumbled away with the lead and less than 2 minutes
the drive

not saying he doesnt take responsibility but damn...the last one against NE in SD was just vomit inducing for a Marty fan
Well some of that was bad luck like the Byner fumble in Cleveland.....but alot of it is his play not to lose mentality. He plays for FGs when he should have been playing for TDs.
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Matt once made a very nice play in Seattle where he spun away from a pass rusher and hit Bowe off his back foot for a first down.

One of the best plays Matt has ever made.
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