Chiefs Cassel > Cutler by Mel Kiper Jr. - Page 9

EyePod · 03-11-2009, 09:07 AM

Tuesday with Mel Kiper Jr.

Mel says Cassel is better than Cutler

This week, Jay Cutler's moaning has distracted Mel Kiper Jr. from his usual draft content. "Talk about whining and complaining -- this is at the top of the list," Kiper says.
Kiper: Cassel > Cutler

Cutler's complaining came about because the Denver Broncos tried to trade Cutler in a three-team deal that would have brought over Matt Cassel from New England. But when the trade fell through, Cutler started to complain.

Kiper says Cassel would have been an "upgrade" over Cutler and that Cutler is, to put it mildly, overrated. "[Cutler] throws one pass, he's a Hall of Famer," Kiper says. "I've seen the media put him in the Hall of Fame. I had to run to the bathroom quick. It was making me ill. I've been hearing this overhype. "This guy was overhyped at the combine, he was overhyped at Senior Bowl week, he's been overhyped before he was drafted. The media, they love Jay Cutler. Jay Cutler can do no wrong. I've been saying he's overrated since day one. Everyone's been pounding their chests saying, 'Oh, I love Jay Cutler, I'm a genius.' They have egg on their face now." Kiper points out that Cutler has yet to lead the Broncos to a winning record or a playoff appearance. Also, Kiper says, "[Cutler] makes throws that leave you scratching your head, which I said on draft day when he was picked. Yeah, he's got a strong arm, but my daughter knew he had a strong arm. She could've written that report."

ESPN First Draft: 3/10

Mel Kiper Jr. and Todd McShay tell Ryen Russillo all about players with buzz and those without it. Plus, the Scouts Inc. crew has a couple of mid-round steals for you to consider.
More Podcasts »

Kiper compares Cutler to Jeff George. "Jeff George had a great arm, and Jeff George had a lot of great games in this league, and people were putting Jeff George in the HOF early in his career," Kiper says. "So I'm just telling you, this is ridiculous." Also, Cutler once said he had a better arm than John Elway. Not surprisingly, Kiper isn't a big fan of that comment, either. "So what? Who cares? Why would you make a comparison to John Elway? That could be taken like you're in a position to critique the quarterback that is a legend."
Cornerbacks

Back to discussing the draft. "There isn't that one true shutdown cornerback available this year," Kiper says. "And after the subpar 40 times run by the defensive backs at the combine workout, this position isn't really as strong or as deep as originally anticipated." Michael Jenkins, Ohio State: "Jenkins is barely maintaining his spot as the No. 1 cornerback," Kiper says. Although Kiper points out that Jenkins "brings a ton of experience and sound technique to the position," he ran a 4.55 40-yard dash at the combine, which makes Kiper worry whether he's worthy of first-round consideration. Vontae Davis, Illinois: Davis is on Jenkins' heels as the top cornerback in this class. But "he lacks the necessary consistency and is still a work in progress," Kiper says. "But physically, he has the awesome physical talent you look for to warrant a first-round grade." D.J. Moore, Vanderbilt: Kiper says he has impressive cover skills, good return skills, smooth hips and good ball skills, but he lacks good recovery speed. Alphonso Smith, Wake Forest: "The 5-9, 193-pounder would be a first-round lock if he were a few inches taller and a bit faster," Kiper says. Darius Butler, Connecticut: Butler is a multiskilled athlete with outstanding recovery speed, Kiper says. Butler also saw action on offense, with nine receptions, and is a solid kick returner.

Underrated: Donald Washington, Ohio State: Washington left school early, a move that many people questioned, but Kiper says he is a solid second-rounder and will draw consideration in the latter portion of Round 1. "He has the physical skills you look for," Kiper says.

Others with early-round potential

Jairus Byrd, Oregon
Keenan Lewis, Oregon State
Brandon Hughes, Oregon State
Captain Munnerlyn, South Carolina
Sean Smith, Utah
Asher Allen, Georgia
Jerraud Powers, Auburn

Safeties

Because USC's Taylor Mays opted to return to school, there isn't a true star at safety in this draft, Kiper says. William Moore, Missouri: After his junior season, in which he made eight interceptions, he was considered a first-round pick. But Kiper says a foot injury early in his senior season caused him to have just one pick last season. However, he ran an "impressive" 4.5-second 40-yard dash at the NFL combine. "He could turn out to be a steal in Round 2," Kiper says. Louis Delmas, Western Michigan: "A true ball hawk at free safety." Rashad Johnson, Alabama: "Had a spectacular year in the SEC, evidenced by his three-interception performance against LSU back in early November," Kiper says. He adds that Johnson is smart and instinctive, with his only weakness being a lack of ideal size (5-foot-11, 202 pounds). Others with early-round potential

Emanuel Cook, South Carolina
Patrick Chung, Oregon
Sherrod Martin, Troy
Darcel McBath, Texas Tech
Chip Vaughn, Wake Forest
David Bruton, Notre Dame
Michael Hamlin, Clemson

Outside linebackers

"While there are several high-profile inside linebackers, there's no question the outside linebacker spot is much better when it comes to talent and overall depth," Kiper says. He predicts that as many as four outside linebackers could be chosen in Round 1 of the draft. Aaron Curry, Wake Forest: Curry is the top player on Kiper's draft board. The multidimensional linebacker gets "high grades in all aspects of outside linebacker play." Kiper says he is destined to be a perennial Pro Bowler. Brian Cushing, USC: Kiper says Cushing is able to perform effectively in a 4-3 or 3-4 scheme. Also, he is more "proven and battle-tested" than his teammate Clay Matthews. Clay Matthews, USC: Matthews is in the Mike Vrabel mold and excels as a pass-rusher, Kiper reports. He is rocketing up draft boards after one season as a starter at USC. Larry English, Northern Illinois: "He was a force to be reckoned with with the Huskies." Clint Sintim, Virginia: "He has the talent and wingspan to operate on his feet or shift to a down defensive end position." He likely will be drafted in the second round. Inside linebackers

Rey Maualuga, USC: "He ranks as one of the hardest-hitting tacklers you will ever come across." James Laurinaitis, Ohio State: "He isn't flashy and lacks awesome computer numbers, but he gets extremely high grades in the consistency department." Kiper believes he needs to be protected by quality defensive tackle play. Others with early-round potential

Jason Phillips, TCU
Scott McKillop, Pittsburgh
Jasper Brinkley, South Carolina
Gerald McRath, Southern Mississippi
Darry Beckwith, LSU

T.O.'s replacement?

With Terrell Owens gone, Kiper thinks Roy Williams will have to step up and be the No. 1 receiver in Dallas. "When he was at [the University of] Texas, he had great talent -- he flashed it time and time again." But Kiper believes Williams needs to be more assertive. "Don't be necessarily T.O. or Randy Moss. But you've got to go out there and have a little bit of an attitude -- a little chip on your shoulder," Kiper says. So who will play opposite Williams? Kiper says the Cowboys could find a quick slot receiver in the second round, like Brian Robiskie from Ohio State or Juaquin Iglesias from Oklahoma. Or they could roll the dice and go for Pat White from West Virginia, a quarterback whom many teams view as a wide receiver. Kiper says White could be the next Antwaan Randle El. But those are the Cowboys' options only if Hakeem Nicks (North Carolina) and Kenny Britt (Rutgers) are off the board by the time the Cowboys make their first pick of the draft in Round 2.

LOL. Cutler fans have egg on their face.... hahaha what a great insult.

Mile High Mania · 03-11-2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrRyan

...And McDaniels pass happy offense should shore that right up!

Shananhan was never able to fix the defense and he went through too many DC's trying to fix it. Offensively, they were fine for the most part - there were way too many RB injuries last year, but the defense has been horrific for years.

I don't think the DEN offense will have an issue moving to the new philosophy. That is.. once this drama ends, and it will.

FAX · 03-11-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Ok... Green had 2 winning seasons as the QB in KC. ...

Defense pretty much sucked in each of those years, but it wasn't just Green... you had a guy named Priest, remember him and all that production?

Hell, in 2003 when Green finally broke .500 in wins... Priest had 1400+ yds and 27 TDs rushing.

So, are we still putting all the glory on Trent for 2003?

Oh and in 2005, the other year over .500 ... some guy named LJ had 1700 yds and 20 TDs.

Still all Trent?

I'm not suggesting he sucked, but c'mon... he was very good, but seriously, those double digit seasons were helped out quite a bit with the nice RB production.

Denver has had issues for a few years now, which is why Shanahan is gone...

Hmmm. First it was defense, now it's the running back. Dang, you're shifty.

Sure. Cutler hasn't put together a winning season throughout all of college or his time in the pros because he hasn't had any help. Please.

Look. All I'm saying Mr. Mile High Mania is this; Cutler has what it takes to be a good quarterback from a physical standpoint - maybe a great one. But he's never, ever, ever been a winner. Of course Vandy sucks - so one would think that would and could hold a guy back. But the goats?

So, since he's never, ever, ever been a winner, we can only speculate that he will become one of those bad boys eventually. Now that he's gone all PMS on the team, I'm supposed to believe that he's on the verge of his breakthrough?

FAX

rad · 03-11-2009, 04:03 PM

I'm curious as to what Mel Kiper Jr.'s hair had to say about this subject.

In fact, I bet his hair is what gives him advice about the draft.

BWillie · 03-11-2009, 04:38 PM

I don't understand Kiper's analysis. Pretty sure Cutler doesn't get to throw to Randy Moss or Wes Welker. While I'm glad we have Cassell, I would without a heartbeat take Cutler. I don't see one bit what is so bad with him?

Brock · 03-11-2009, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWillie007

I don't understand Kiper's analysis. Pretty sure Cutler doesn't get to throw to Randy Moss or Wes Welker. While I'm glad we have Cassell, I would without a heartbeat take Cutler. I don't see one bit what is so bad with him?

I don't have a problem with his play. I do have a problem with him acting like a teenage girl who had her cell phone taken away.

htismaqe · 03-11-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWillie007

I don't understand Kiper's analysis. Pretty sure Cutler doesn't get to throw to Randy Moss or Wes Welker. While I'm glad we have Cassell, I would without a heartbeat take Cutler. I don't see one bit what is so bad with him?

Good God, Cutler was throwing to Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal. Together they're EASILY on Moss and Welker's level.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 03-11-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Good God, Cutler was throwing to Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal. Together they're EASILY on Moss and Welker's level.

Why some of my conspirators here cite him as a QB to have I will NEVER understand.

Mile High Mania · 03-11-2009, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

Hmmm. First it was defense, now it's the running back. Dang, you're shifty.

FAX

Not trying to be shifty, just sticking with my argument that it's not all about the QB... Elway was one of the greatest of all time, but it took a hell of a running game and an improved defense for him to win two titles.

Sure, he got 'em to three and lost and Jay has yet to do that...

But, you threw in the comparison to Trent Green and all the games he won, I merely pointed out that he only had 2 seasons better than .500 and in those 2 seasons... he had a hell of a lot of help at RB, to help offset that crappy defense.

Ok - I'm out. We'll see what happens...

FAX · 03-11-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Not trying to be shifty, just sticking with my argument that it's not all about the QB... Elway was one of the greatest of all time, but it took a hell of a running game and an improved defense for him to win two titles.

Sure, he got 'em to three and lost and Jay has yet to do that...

But, you threw in the comparison to Trent Green and all the games he won, I merely pointed out that he only had 2 seasons better than .500 and in those 2 seasons... he had a hell of a lot of help at RB, to help offset that crappy defense.

Ok - I'm out. We'll see what happens...

Oh, Jeez, Mr. Mile High Mania. You know that I merely brought up Green in response to your assertion that Cutler wasn't winning games due to the defense. Green is the poster child of a quarterback who won games in spite of one of the worst defenses of all times. That's all.

Look. The fact is that Cutler has never - not in college or the pros - quarterbacked a winning season. Peeps can blame that on his defense, his running back, or severe diaper rash but the fact remains.

I'm not convinced that Cutler is a winner. I have good reason for that - his entire history. Goat fans will believe otherwise, which is understandable but based on faith - nothing more. You're right. We'll see. And, should he alienate his coaching staff further, we'll see him traded.

FAX

Mile High Mania · 03-11-2009, 05:48 PM

Gotcha! Well, my final note on Green is that as you look back on his 5 1/2 years in KC... 3 1/2 seasons were .500 or below and he won 48 games while losing 40 games with 0 playoff wins.

In that era of KC football.. the offense was insane, but tap the brake just a bit on the "Trent Green" thing... he was 8 games over .500.

Jay needs to get over .500 without a doubt, and I hope they end this drama soon.

BWillie · 03-11-2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Gotcha! Well, my final note on Green is that as you look back on his 5 1/2 years in KC... 3 1/2 seasons were .500 or below and he won 48 games while losing 40 games with 0 playoff wins.

In that era of KC football.. the offense was insane, but tap the brake just a bit on the "Trent Green" thing... he was 8 games over .500.

Jay needs to get over .500 without a doubt, and I hope they end this drama soon.

Last time I checked, quarterbacks don't play defense. You have to have it on both sides. Nothing Trent Green could of done for the defense. If Trent Green had the old Baltimore Ravens defense the Chiefs probably would of won 3 super bowls. It wasn't all Trent either, you coulda put alot of QB's into that system and had great success.

Going back to Elway, Elway was probably one of the most overrated QB's of all time. While he was a great player, he can thank his two super bowls to TD, who is by all accounts, one of the most dominating players ever in the short span where he was good.

beach tribe · 03-11-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Gotcha! Well, my final note on Green is that as you look back on his 5 1/2 years in KC... 3 1/2 seasons were .500 or below and he won 48 games while losing 40 games with 0 playoff wins.

In that era of KC football.. the offense was insane, but tap the brake just a bit on the "Trent Green" thing... he was 8 games over .500.

Jay needs to get over .500 without a doubt, and I hope they end this drama soon.

**snicker**

**the Talking Can** · 03-11-2009, 06:06 PM

Denver's HC wants our QB.

marinate

BWillie · 03-11-2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Good God, Cutler was throwing to Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal. Together they're EASILY on Moss and Welker's level.

Is this a sick joke? LOL

**Rausch** · 03-11-2009, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

I don't have a problem with his play. I do have a problem with him acting like a teenage girl who had her cell phone taken away.

Hell, Rivers acts that way on the field...

03-11-2009, 09:07 AM
EyePod Forgetting 2013 season end. Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Around Casino cash: $9995735	Cassel > Cutler by Mel Kiper Jr. Tuesday with Mel Kiper Jr. Mel says Cassel is better than Cutler This week, Jay Cutler's moaning has distracted Mel Kiper Jr. from his usual draft content. "Talk about whining and complaining -- this is at the top of the list," Kiper says. Kiper: Cassel > Cutler Cutler's complaining came about because the Denver Broncos tried to trade Cutler in a three-team deal that would have brought over Matt Cassel from New England. But when the trade fell through, Cutler started to complain. Kiper says Cassel would have been an "upgrade" over Cutler and that Cutler is, to put it mildly, overrated. "[Cutler] throws one pass, he's a Hall of Famer," Kiper says. "I've seen the media put him in the Hall of Fame. I had to run to the bathroom quick. It was making me ill. I've been hearing this overhype. "This guy was overhyped at the combine, he was overhyped at Senior Bowl week, he's been overhyped before he was drafted. The media, they love Jay Cutler. Jay Cutler can do no wrong. I've been saying he's overrated since day one. Everyone's been pounding their chests saying, 'Oh, I love Jay Cutler, I'm a genius.' They have egg on their face now." Kiper points out that Cutler has yet to lead the Broncos to a winning record or a playoff appearance. Also, Kiper says, "[Cutler] makes throws that leave you scratching your head, which I said on draft day when he was picked. Yeah, he's got a strong arm, but my daughter knew he had a strong arm. She could've written that report." ESPN First Draft: 3/10 Mel Kiper Jr. and Todd McShay tell Ryen Russillo all about players with buzz and those without it. Plus, the Scouts Inc. crew has a couple of mid-round steals for you to consider. More Podcasts » Kiper compares Cutler to Jeff George. "Jeff George had a great arm, and Jeff George had a lot of great games in this league, and people were putting Jeff George in the HOF early in his career," Kiper says. "So I'm just telling you, this is ridiculous." Also, Cutler once said he had a better arm than John Elway. Not surprisingly, Kiper isn't a big fan of that comment, either. "So what? Who cares? Why would you make a comparison to John Elway? That could be taken like you're in a position to critique the quarterback that is a legend." Cornerbacks Back to discussing the draft. "There isn't that one true shutdown cornerback available this year," Kiper says. "And after the subpar 40 times run by the defensive backs at the combine workout, this position isn't really as strong or as deep as originally anticipated." Michael Jenkins, Ohio State: "Jenkins is barely maintaining his spot as the No. 1 cornerback," Kiper says. Although Kiper points out that Jenkins "brings a ton of experience and sound technique to the position," he ran a 4.55 40-yard dash at the combine, which makes Kiper worry whether he's worthy of first-round consideration. Vontae Davis, Illinois: Davis is on Jenkins' heels as the top cornerback in this class. But "he lacks the necessary consistency and is still a work in progress," Kiper says. "But physically, he has the awesome physical talent you look for to warrant a first-round grade." D.J. Moore, Vanderbilt: Kiper says he has impressive cover skills, good return skills, smooth hips and good ball skills, but he lacks good recovery speed. Alphonso Smith, Wake Forest: "The 5-9, 193-pounder would be a first-round lock if he were a few inches taller and a bit faster," Kiper says. Darius Butler, Connecticut: Butler is a multiskilled athlete with outstanding recovery speed, Kiper says. Butler also saw action on offense, with nine receptions, and is a solid kick returner. Underrated: Donald Washington, Ohio State: Washington left school early, a move that many people questioned, but Kiper says he is a solid second-rounder and will draw consideration in the latter portion of Round 1. "He has the physical skills you look for," Kiper says. Others with early-round potential Jairus Byrd, Oregon Keenan Lewis, Oregon State Brandon Hughes, Oregon State Captain Munnerlyn, South Carolina Sean Smith, Utah Asher Allen, Georgia Jerraud Powers, Auburn Safeties Because USC's Taylor Mays opted to return to school, there isn't a true star at safety in this draft, Kiper says. William Moore, Missouri: After his junior season, in which he made eight interceptions, he was considered a first-round pick. But Kiper says a foot injury early in his senior season caused him to have just one pick last season. However, he ran an "impressive" 4.5-second 40-yard dash at the NFL combine. "He could turn out to be a steal in Round 2," Kiper says. Louis Delmas, Western Michigan: "A true ball hawk at free safety." Rashad Johnson, Alabama: "Had a spectacular year in the SEC, evidenced by his three-interception performance against LSU back in early November," Kiper says. He adds that Johnson is smart and instinctive, with his only weakness being a lack of ideal size (5-foot-11, 202 pounds). Others with early-round potential Emanuel Cook, South Carolina Patrick Chung, Oregon Sherrod Martin, Troy Darcel McBath, Texas Tech Chip Vaughn, Wake Forest David Bruton, Notre Dame Michael Hamlin, Clemson Outside linebackers "While there are several high-profile inside linebackers, there's no question the outside linebacker spot is much better when it comes to talent and overall depth," Kiper says. He predicts that as many as four outside linebackers could be chosen in Round 1 of the draft. Aaron Curry, Wake Forest: Curry is the top player on Kiper's draft board. The multidimensional linebacker gets "high grades in all aspects of outside linebacker play." Kiper says he is destined to be a perennial Pro Bowler. Brian Cushing, USC: Kiper says Cushing is able to perform effectively in a 4-3 or 3-4 scheme. Also, he is more "proven and battle-tested" than his teammate Clay Matthews. Clay Matthews, USC: Matthews is in the Mike Vrabel mold and excels as a pass-rusher, Kiper reports. He is rocketing up draft boards after one season as a starter at USC. Larry English, Northern Illinois: "He was a force to be reckoned with with the Huskies." Clint Sintim, Virginia: "He has the talent and wingspan to operate on his feet or shift to a down defensive end position." He likely will be drafted in the second round. Inside linebackers Rey Maualuga, USC: "He ranks as one of the hardest-hitting tacklers you will ever come across." James Laurinaitis, Ohio State: "He isn't flashy and lacks awesome computer numbers, but he gets extremely high grades in the consistency department." Kiper believes he needs to be protected by quality defensive tackle play. Others with early-round potential Jason Phillips, TCU Scott McKillop, Pittsburgh Jasper Brinkley, South Carolina Gerald McRath, Southern Mississippi Darry Beckwith, LSU T.O.'s replacement? With Terrell Owens gone, Kiper thinks Roy Williams will have to step up and be the No. 1 receiver in Dallas. "When he was at [the University of] Texas, he had great talent -- he flashed it time and time again." But Kiper believes Williams needs to be more assertive. "Don't be necessarily T.O. or Randy Moss. But you've got to go out there and have a little bit of an attitude -- a little chip on your shoulder," Kiper says. So who will play opposite Williams? Kiper says the Cowboys could find a quick slot receiver in the second round, like Brian Robiskie from Ohio State or Juaquin Iglesias from Oklahoma. Or they could roll the dice and go for Pat White from West Virginia, a quarterback whom many teams view as a wide receiver. Kiper says White could be the next Antwaan Randle El. But those are the Cowboys' options only if Hakeem Nicks (North Carolina) and Kenny Britt (Rutgers) are off the board by the time the Cowboys make their first pick of the draft in Round 2. LOL. Cutler fans have egg on their face.... hahaha what a great insult.
Posts: 5,800

03-11-2009, 04:38 PM	#124
BWillie Are you ready to Rumble? Join Date: Apr 2006 Casino cash: $-1228759	I don't understand Kiper's analysis. Pretty sure Cutler doesn't get to throw to Randy Moss or Wes Welker. While I'm glad we have Cassell, I would without a heartbeat take Cutler. I don't see one bit what is so bad with him?
Posts: 52,395

03-11-2009, 05:48 PM	#130
Mile High Mania #triggering Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Tejas Casino cash: $1097229	Gotcha! Well, my final note on Green is that as you look back on his 5 1/2 years in KC... 3 1/2 seasons were .500 or below and he won 48 games while losing 40 games with 0 playoff wins. In that era of KC football.. the offense was insane, but tap the brake just a bit on the "Trent Green" thing... he was 8 games over .500. Jay needs to get over .500 without a doubt, and I hope they end this drama soon. __________________
Posts: 30,894

03-11-2009, 06:06 PM	#133
the Talking Can Supporter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: street Casino cash: $9392208	Denver's HC wants our QB. marinate __________________ Clark Hunt: "Thank god for the Dominican pool boy"
Posts: 51,585

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