****Our Wide Receivers Suck- Official Thread****

[Sofa King]

They can’t get open, they drop passes in their hands, their jet sweeps are slow and terrible. These guys are not good.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

when mecca starts acting like it's the pioli era the chiefs are about to be great again

He is right though....

[TEX]

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

it was fine last week

Till they got out of zone. When they played more man, and figured out how to cover Kelce, it stalled. Because WR's.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by Mecca

They're obsessed with calling outside zone when the strength of the OL is the interior.

They're overrated in run blocking.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by TEX

They're overrated in run blocking.

I did kinda call this when we brought the new tackles in and everyone waved away their track record of poor run blocking. Sure, it's not as important as pass blocking, especially for this team, but it still matters. It's not helped by the bizarre obsession with runs to the outside that don't appreciate our relative strengths.

On the WRs. Yeah they're bad, at least right now. Moore is definitely just bad. Watson and MVS are very mediocre decoys. Hardman is a gadget guy. Toney...ugh, who knows. Rice has talent but a consistent dropper. This is not a good group. We all knew that. The question is just if/how much it can improve.

However, I also think the scheme and playcalling arent helping. If we've moved to a WR by committee approach where everyone has a specific role...make that a limited role. Don't ask them all to do everything and know everything. Dont dial up plays for guys that are destined to fail.

Right now we are refusing to throw to the sidelines or run power. We are giving bad players more snaps than good ones. And we are flat calling dumb, predictable plays. Most of this can be drastically improved even if it cant be entirely fixed.

[Chris Meck]

I think everyone, including Andy, was not ready to play yesterday.

I'm not going to put too much blame on Mahomes being sick, although he clearly was not himself.

I don't understand the play calling. I don't understand how they've decided to use Toney. I don't know why they just won't line up and pound Pacheco behind Thuney, Creed, and Smith when they need one or two yards. There's way too much cutesy shit. These are ongoing issues-not just this week, although perhaps it's for the best that it came back to bite them now.

I think it's time to bench Moore. He just doesn't have it.

I think if Toney can't actually play WR, then he's WR6, because Hardman is a better gadget player. I don't think this is actually the case, though, based on last season. I don't understand what's going on here.

And I'll say this: it's possible that they miss Bienemy. All reports are that he was extremely detail oriented and a hard-ass. They sure don't look very detail oriented, do they? I don't think Nagy's calling the plays, but maybe he's just a little too buddy-buddy with them. I'm just speculating.

I reject the notion that there's no talent here, but it's time to make the big adjustments in playing time (and practice time) away from Moore and to Rice. It's time to stop this nonsense they've been doing with Toney. It's been 8 weeks. If he's still not ready to play what the hell? Watson is better at MVS things than MVS is at this point.

It's time for some back-to-basics.

Veach took 4 swings, looks like Moore is a dud. Looks like Ross is a 'guess we'll never know'. Rice is a hit, and I think sometimes tries to do too much and has focus drops, but he's clearly a talent. I don't know what the hell they're doing with Toney, it makes no sense but it needs to stop. How about they have him actually run routes?

[TEX]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I think everyone, including Andy, was not ready to play yesterday.

I'm not going to put too much blame on Mahomes being sick, although he clearly was not himself.

I don't understand the play calling. I don't understand how they've decided to use Toney. I don't know why they just won't line up and pound Pacheco behind Thuney, Creed, and Smith when they need one or two yards. There's way too much cutesy shit. These are ongoing issues-not just this week, although perhaps it's for the best that it came back to bite them now.

I think it's time to bench Moore. He just doesn't have it.

I think if Toney can't actually play WR, then he's WR6, because Hardman is a better gadget player. I don't think this is actually the case, though, based on last season. I don't understand what's going on here.

And I'll say this: it's possible that they miss Bienemy. All reports are that he was extremely detail oriented and a hard-ass. They sure don't look very detail oriented, do they? I don't think Nagy's calling the plays, but maybe he's just a little too buddy-buddy with them. I'm just speculating.

I reject the notion that there's no talent here, but it's time to make the big adjustments in playing time (and practice time) away from Moore and to Rice. It's time to stop this nonsense they've been doing with Toney. It's been 8 weeks. If he's still not ready to play what the hell? Watson is better at MVS things than MVS is at this point.

It's time for some back-to-basics.

Veach took 4 swings, looks like Moore is a dud. Looks like Ross is a 'guess we'll never know'. Rice is a hit, and I think sometimes tries to do too much and has focus drops, but he's clearly a talent. I don't know what the hell they're doing with Toney, it makes no sense but it needs to stop. How about they have him actually run routes?

Yes
Yes
Interior 3 are overrated run blockers, but I'd still try to do what you're suggesting.

Yes - BENCH Moore. He's useless

YES!- They miss Bienemy BIG time. They're out of sync and very sloppy. I think your speculatoon about their "buddy" Nagy is spot on.

There is not as much talent at WR that you think there is. But you're spot on with them not using what they have correctly.

Yes, its time for basics. Problem is our WR's cant do basic things. Offense cant seem to either at times. Maybe this is also part of Bienemy being gone?

Yes - 4 swings at WR. Only Rice is a keeper. Thats a problem.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by TEX

Yes
Yes
Interior 3 are overrated run blockers, but I'd still try to do what you're suggesting.

Yes - BENCH Moore. He's useless

YES!- They miss Bienemy BIG time. They're out of sync and very sloppy. I think your speculatoon about their "buddy" Nagy is spot on.

There is not as much talent at WR that you think there is. But you're spot on with them not using what they have correctly.

Yes, its time for basics. Problem is our WR's cant do basic things. Offense cant seem to either at times. Maybe this is also part of Bienemy being gone?

Yes - 4 swings at WR. Only Rice is a keeper. Thats a problem.

I don’t know that it’s as much of an eb/Nagy issue. I still think Reid calls most of the shots as he always has. I think we miss juju more than we like to admit and defenses have gotten way better with a bullseye on our specific offense. So we have to adapt just as they have.

I think our mentality has changed at WR from role guys who play off mahomes and kelce, to a more traditional weapon like rice. And we just need to keep our foot on the gas with that. At the very least we can throw away the idea that we can just spread the ball around to sporadic targets. the more we see the new mahomes the more we see the importance of WRs just doing their damn job - run a good and smart route, find a way to get to and catch the football. That’s what juju did with limited athleticism. It sounds simple and yet most of the guys we feature can’t even do that.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I don’t know that it’s as much of an eb/Nagy issue. I still think Reid calls most of the shots as he always has. I think we miss juju more than we like to admit and defenses have gotten way better with a bullseye on our specific offense. So we have to adapt just as they have.

I think our mentality has changed at WR from role guys who play off mahomes and kelce, to a more traditional weapon like rice. And we just need to keep our foot on the gas with that. At the very least we can throw away the idea that we can just spread the ball around to sporadic targets. the more we see the new mahomes the more we see the importance of WRs just doing their damn job - run a good and smart route, find a way to get to and catch the football. That’s what juju did with limited athleticism. It sounds simple and yet most of the guys we feature can’t even do that.

I know Reid calls the shots, but his Offensive Coordinator...well, coordinates. And the offense doesn't look very coordinated at times.

I don't know that they've pivoted from role guys to traditional weapons, as they just flat refuse to use Toney as an actual WR and I do not understand that at ALL. He was really good down the stretch last year. I find it hard to believe he just suddenly sucks.

My wondering about if they miss Bienemy is more about the details and accountability factors, which are things that Bienemy was known for. Is Nagy too buddy-buddy with the guys? Bienemy is a hard-ass. Seems like they kind of miss having a hard-ass on their tails.

I definitely think they've gotten way too cute with the play calls. They need to get back to the basics and build it back up from that.

And I think it's clear at this point that Moore is a bust. Time to demote him and promote Rice.

It's time to quit with the manufactured shit for Toney and either play him as an actual WR or not at all. Hardman's better at that stuff.

It's time for more Watson and less MVS. Watson is better. He plays bigger, he runs better routes, and he makes the tough catches.

I still believe there's more raw talent here than the rooms with Drob and Pringle, but they need to start showing it consistently.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I know Reid calls the shots, but his Offensive Coordinator...well, coordinates. And the offense doesn't look very coordinated at times.

I don't know that they've pivoted from role guys to traditional weapons, as they just flat refuse to use Toney as an actual WR and I do not understand that at ALL. He was really good down the stretch last year. I find it hard to believe he just suddenly sucks.

My wondering about if they miss Bienemy is more about the details and accountability factors, which are things that Bienemy was known for. Is Nagy too buddy-buddy with the guys? Bienemy is a hard-ass. Seems like they kind of miss having a hard-ass on their tails.

I definitely think they've gotten way too cute with the play calls. They need to get back to the basics and build it back up from that.

And I think it's clear at this point that Moore is a bust. Time to demote him and promote Rice.

It's time to quit with the manufactured shit for Toney and either play him as an actual WR or not at all. Hardman's better at that stuff.

It's time for more Watson and less MVS. Watson is better. He plays bigger, he runs better routes, and he makes the tough catches.

I still believe there's more raw talent here than the rooms with Drob and Pringle, but they need to start showing it consistently.

Said in the Nagy thread I don't get his appeal. His CV is as a failed HC, and if the role of Bienimy was simply to get the team ready...that's more than Nagy appears to have done.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I know Reid calls the shots, but his Offensive Coordinator...well, coordinates. And the offense doesn't look very coordinated at times.

I don't know that they've pivoted from role guys to traditional weapons, as they just flat refuse to use Toney as an actual WR and I do not understand that at ALL. He was really good down the stretch last year. I find it hard to believe he just suddenly sucks.

My wondering about if they miss Bienemy is more about the details and accountability factors, which are things that Bienemy was known for. Is Nagy too buddy-buddy with the guys? Bienemy is a hard-ass. Seems like they kind of miss having a hard-ass on their tails.

I definitely think they've gotten way too cute with the play calls. They need to get back to the basics and build it back up from that.

And I think it's clear at this point that Moore is a bust. Time to demote him and promote Rice.

It's time to quit with the manufactured shit for Toney and either play him as an actual WR or not at all. Hardman's better at that stuff.

It's time for more Watson and less MVS. Watson is better. He plays bigger, he runs better routes, and he makes the tough catches.

I still believe there's more raw talent here than the rooms with Drob and Pringle, but they need to start showing it consistently.

I thought so too with toney. but maybe he’s more of cardale jones when he won a national championship with Ohio state - a guy who was talented enough to catch the other team off guard. Toney never saw more than spot reps last year.

We have some raw talent but I just don’t think this is a very instinctive room. And I don’t think they’ll develop instincts overnight. We’re relying on timing and precision more than ever and our top 3 initial guys don’t seem cut out for that. We just see time after time that mahomes has to get a perfect pass to a wide open guy - they either don’t make small route adjustments, don’t adjust to the ball, don’t go with him on scramble drill. So when they do their job right mahomes doesnt trust it. That’s where I think juju is missed the most. At the very least reliability and consistency from the top of the room can allow guys like Toney to settle into more of a specific but limited role

I think a lot of the bad Nagy stuff is Reid stuff. He favors WRs who block and sometimes is loyal to a fault to these guys. He gets very cute when he can’t get something done the normal way (see a few years ago when we never ran the ball in the red zone and used an arsenal of gadget plays bc we were working around ceh). I think mahomes and Reid in many aspects are working around the limitations of his guys.

[stevieray]

We never replaced Schuster, and we have no WR that can keep defenses honest.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by stevieray

We never replaced Schuster, and we have no WR that can keep defenses honest.

Yep. 3 of our WR's are not projected to hit 1000 yards combined. That's a problem...Still cant believe they went into the season with this WR group.

[BleedingRed]

Originally Posted by TEX

Yep. 3 of our WR's are not projected to hit 1000 yards combined. That's a problem...Still cant believe they went into the season with this WR group.

I can,

But what I CAN'T believe is we are this many weeks in and I'm still watching Moore/MVS/Toney get more snaps than Rice in some instances

[TEX]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I don’t know that it’s as much of an eb/Nagy issue. I still think Reid calls most of the shots as he always has. I think we miss juju more than we like to admit and defenses have gotten way better with a bullseye on our specific offense. So we have to adapt just as they have.

I think our mentality has changed at WR from role guys who play off mahomes and kelce, to a more traditional weapon like rice. And we just need to keep our foot on the gas with that. At the very least we can throw away the idea that we can just spread the ball around to sporadic targets. the more we see the new mahomes the more we see the importance of WRs just doing their damn job - run a good and smart route, find a way to get to and catch the football. That’s what juju did with limited athleticism. It sounds simple and yet most of the guys we feature can’t even do that.

Speaking of which, did you see that pass yesterday that Mahomes threw to MVS on the sideline near mid field? It almost got intercepted, because MVS did not come back to the ball. Simple concept that our wide receivers can't grasp. Just get to the spot and CATCH the damn ball.

[RunKC]

Nagy? Folks here are quick to bash the 2nd coach in command on offense. Did it with Nagy, then did it with EB when Nagy was gone, now it's Nagy again.

It's Andy guys. He's the one constant through it all. Shit happens