Do we want DeHop?

[ROYC75]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...9536dcd3&ei=21


Story by Andrew Gould




The Kansas City Chiefs won the Super Bowl without a star wide receiver, but they could reportedly make an elite offense even scarier by acquiring DeAndre Hopkins.

NFL insider Benjamin Albright told PHNX Cardinals that Kansas City is the "primary suitor" for Hopkins. He doesn't know the draft compensation the Cardinals would receive, but he said it's more likely they get a second-round pick than a first.

After the 2022 season, theScore's Jordan Schultz reported that the Cardinals plan to trade Hopkins this offseason.

Arizona hired a new general manager and head coach after a disappointing four-win season, and Hopkins is set to make $19.45 million (with a $30.75 million cap hit) in 2023. The Cardinals could seek a clean slate by moving the three-time All-Pro wideout, who turns 31 in June.

Hopkins began his Cardinals career by tallying 1,407 yards and six touchdowns in 2020. However, multiple lower body injuries limited him to 10 games in 2021, and he served a six-game suspension to start the 2022 season for violating the NFL's PED policy.

Yet he remains an impact player when on the field. Hopkins totaled 474 receiving yards in six full games with quarterback Kyler Murray last season.

Now imagine what he can accomplish when catching passes from Patrick Mahomes.

The Chiefs flourished without a star replacement for Tyreek Hill, but they could still benefit by solidifying the position this offseason. JuJu Smith-Schuster is a free agent after garnering 78 catches for 933 yards on a one-year deal. The depth chart features several talented question marks in Mecole Hardman, Kadarius Toney, and Marquez Valdes-Scantling.

Adding Hopkins could be great news for Kansas City, but terrible for all opposing defenses.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Do we want a high priced prima donna?

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

So, we don't need players that move the needle? We're content to field players that are just JAGs? Sounds an awful lot like the GB Way to me. Thought we weren't going down that road?

While we're deriding 'The Green Bay way'-which we've ALREADY been more successful than the last twenty plus years of 'The Green Bay way' has it ever occurred to you that perhaps they did things the way they have done them because they've been paying an elite QB on their cap for literally THIRTY YEARS now? I mean, you think maybe that might have something to do with it?

You think maybe paying an elite QB as such means you can't have everything else you want? Maybe? Just spitballing.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

We literally just won a Super Bowl doing things a certain way, and it's a month later, and some of you guys want to go back to stars and scrubs-only a LESSER version of that. I mean, what the ****?

Hopkins is no Tyreek Hill. And defenses turned Hill into a possession receiver. And you guys want to go backwards? With an over 30 Hopkins?

This is dumb.

We're on a course, it's proven successful, stay the course. We need maximum value per cap dollar spent. Mahomes plus best 52.

This is the way.

I think it's way more important to give Mahomes a good OL than superstar WR's.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by DRM08

I think it's way more important to give Mahomes a good OL than superstar WR's.

Yep.

'Green Bay way'. Horseshit.

This is how the Patriots operated when they won 7 Super Bowls. They cut dudes loose when they got too expensive, they signed cheap vets, they protected Brady, and they drafted well. And a lot of years that offense was totally different from the year before.

And it worked until they stopped drafting well.

I see no reason why Veach is going to start failing when it sure looks like he's just hitting his stride.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

We literally just won a Super Bowl doing things a certain way, and it's a month later, and some of you guys want to go back to stars and scrubs-only a LESSER version of that. I mean, what the ****?

Hopkins is no Tyreek Hill. And defenses turned Hill into a possession receiver. And you guys want to go backwards? With an over 30 Hopkins?

This is dumb.

We're on a course, it's proven successful, stay the course. We need maximum value per cap dollar spent. Mahomes plus best 52.

This is the way.

Not to quibble with your logic, but we also lost to BUF 24-20 and CIN 27-24 in 2022. Not to put too fine a point on it, we lost those games because we couldn't score points, because we were fielding those same role players. And if not for the Damar thing, we might not have gotten the 1-seed.

So the fact that that it worked once, well, let's be honest and admit there was a few mitigating factors that helped us out along the way.

I get that acquiring DHop would probably mess up the careful architecture of what Veach's put together the last three or so years. I get that it would probably mean letting some good players go earlier than expected, like Sneed/Gay/Bolton. It might. It's even likely.

But again, I'm not necessarily hung up on DHop or bust. He's just convenient as an example.

But Parris? Come on, we can't do better than that? One step up in class isn't worth a look? Maybe just peek at a good WR2 (WR between 33 and 42?)?

Toney goes out for any significant length of time, which is somewhat likely, and it's:

MVS

Skyy

Watson (if he comes back)

Ross (if either is healthy enough)

Kemp/Powell/Fryfogle???

And what happens if Kelce misses any time? That's the crew you want to roll with? How much can Pat carry?

Here's the thing: You seem to see 2022 as a blueprint for how to move forward. I see it as something of an aberration. A lot of lucky things happened. Like a 7th round rookie suddenly becoming a top-tier RB1. Another 7th round rook being thrust into a starting role, and not only playing well enough, but making a few big plays.

And so on. That doesn't make it the only best way. it just means we have incredible coaching, generational talents at both QB and TE, and a few things just bounced in our favor.

Simply putting some better quality pieces out there means needing less luck. They don't have to be Elite, but they shouldn't have to be JAGs either.

[chiefforlife]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Yep.

'Green Bay way'. Horseshit.

This is how the Patriots operated when they won 7 Super Bowls. They cut dudes loose when they got too expensive, they signed cheap vets, they protected Brady, and they drafted well. And a lot of years that offense was totally different from the year before.

And it worked until they stopped drafting well.

I see no reason why Veach is going to start failing when it sure looks like he's just hitting his stride.

AND they traded for Randy Moss at 30 years old...

[Couch-Potato]

Originally Posted by DRM08

I think it's way more important to give Mahomes a good OL than superstar WR's.

I think THIS is something everyone can agree on!

[Couch-Potato]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Yep.

'Green Bay way'. Horseshit.

This is how the Patriots operated when they won 7 Super Bowls. They cut dudes loose when they got too expensive, they signed cheap vets, they protected Brady, and they drafted well. And a lot of years that offense was totally different from the year before.

And it worked until they stopped drafting well.

I see no reason why Veach is going to start failing when it sure looks like he's just hitting his stride.

Yep, this is the way. But I would argue it's a delicate balance of retaining your star talent and letting overpriced players walk.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Not to quibble with your logic, but we also lost to BUF 24-20 and CIN 27-24 in 2022. Not to put too fine a point on it, we lost those games because we couldn't score points, because we were fielding those same role players. And if not for the Damar thing, we might not have gotten the 1-seed.

We lost those games because it's the ****ing NFL and those were really good teams at that particular point in time and it's hard to win ANY game, let alone ALMOST ALL OF THEM year in and year out.

I just threw Parris Campbell out as a possible guy that's been with shit QB play and might do better with like, you know, the best QB. His stats suck because-DID YOU SEE THE DUMPSTER FIRE THAT OFFENSE WAS? I mean, the wheels hadn't fallen off yet when they played us. But good gods, was it shit by the end of the season.

I'm not all in on Campbell. I'm not ALL IN on anyone. It's a shit FA class.

But we're not going to go trade for a #1WR so fantasy football geeks can feel good about seeing one guy with big numbers to jerk off to. Not when we need TWO OT's, a DE, and at least two DT's.

Just because you find unproven guys unsettling doesn't mean the Chiefs do. Andy and Veach know what they're doing and projecting your youngsters is going to be really important until Mahomes cap percentage levels off.

You don't have to like it, but you DO have to accept it.

Because it's happening, it already started last year.

Maybe these guys know what they're doing. I don't know. Kind of seems like it.

I wouldn't be surprised if they pass on Juju at anywhere near $10m. I'm certain they'll bring back JWat.

If they're going to bring an an over 30 WR, it'll be someone like Thielen on a cheap deal to be a steady-Eddie. It won't be a big splash.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato

Yep, this is the way. But I would argue it's a delicate balance of retaining your star talent and letting overpriced players walk.

Exactly.

But if you're paying market price for someone else's stars, you're going to have to let yours walk sooner or later. It's just math.

I'd rather not pay a Hopkins if it means I have to let Sneed, or Gay, or Creed, or Smith walk in a year or two.

And if it precludes me from getting guys to protect Mahomes or kill the opposing QB. I'd rather put any money we have into THAT and figure the rest will work out.

I'd like to see a healthy Mahomes in the Super Bowl for a change. This one legged shit is getting old.

[BleedingRed]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

We literally just won a Super Bowl doing things a certain way, and it's a month later, and some of you guys want to go back to stars and scrubs-only a LESSER version of that. I mean, what the ****?

Hopkins is no Tyreek Hill. And defenses turned Hill into a possession receiver. And you guys want to go backwards? With an over 30 Hopkins?

This is dumb.

We're on a course, it's proven successful, stay the course. We need maximum value per cap dollar spent. Mahomes plus best 52.

This is the way.

Reek and Hopkins are not remotely simular types of recievers.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by chiefforlife

AND they traded for Randy Moss at 30 years old...

Randy Moss had washed out on two previous stops and revived his career in New England. They got him for a fourth round pick.

Not the same thing, at all.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by BleedingRed

Reek and Hopkins are not remotely simular types of recievers.

Similar.

And no, they're not, and Hopkins is a very good receiver that if you're going to PAY him like a #1, you're going to NOT pay the role players you have, like MVS, and you're going to throw the ball to Hopkins 100+ times a season. Just like you did Tyreek. You HAVE to, because you're PAYING FOR THAT PRODUCTION.

Otherwise, it's a waste of cap space.

So, you're back to stars and scrubs, and with a lesser WR in Hopkins-who's very, very good, but not Tyreek Hill. Teams sit in two deep and take him away and you've paid a very expensive decoy.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

We lost those games because it's the ****ing NFL and those were really good teams at that particular point in time and it's hard to win ANY game, let alone ALMOST ALL OF THEM year in and year out.

I just threw Parris Campbell out as a possible guy that's been with shit QB play and might do better with like, you know, the best QB. His stats suck because-DID YOU SEE THE DUMPSTER FIRE THAT OFFENSE WAS? I mean, the wheels hadn't fallen off yet when they played us. But good gods, was it shit by the end of the season.

I'm not all in on Campbell. I'm not ALL IN on anyone. It's a shit FA class.

But we're not going to go trade for a #1WR so fantasy football geeks can feel good about seeing one guy with big numbers to jerk off to. Not when we need TWO OT's, a DE, and at least two DT's.

Just because you find unproven guys unsettling doesn't mean the Chiefs do. Andy and Veach know what they're doing and projecting your youngsters is going to be really important until Mahomes cap percentage levels off.

You don't have to like it, but you DO have to accept it.

Because it's happening, it already started last year.

Maybe these guys know what they're doing. I don't know. Kind of seems like it.

I wouldn't be surprised if they pass on Juju at anywhere near $10m. I'm certain they'll bring back JWat.

If they're going to bring an an over 30 WR, it'll be someone like Thielen on a cheap deal to be a steady-Eddie. It won't be a big splash.

We lost those games because no one got open before Pat had to scramble or otherwise pull it down. You can watch him raise the ball, then pull it down on multiple snaps, sometimes more than once during a single play, because our role players couldn't get open in time. Now, yes, that's because those guys get paid too, but it's also because JAGs rarely get open vs. good defenders.

And I mentioned Thielen last season during the IND circus GDT, so I'm aware that he's a likely target for Veach. At least he's probably a better overall WR than JJSS, but the difference isn't much, if any.

[chiefforlife]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Similar.

And no, they're not, and Hopkins is a very good receiver that if you're going to PAY him like a #1, you're going to NOT pay the role players you have, like MVS, and you're going to throw the ball to Hopkins 100+ times a season. Just like you did Tyreek. You HAVE to, because you're PAYING FOR THAT PRODUCTION.

Otherwise, it's a waste of cap space.

So, you're back to stars and scrubs, and with a lesser WR in Hopkins-who's very, very good, but not Tyreek Hill. Teams sit in two deep and take him away and you've paid a very expensive decoy.

I get what you are saying here but...

They arent Paying D Hop anywhere near what Tyreek got. His contract is very reasonable for the next two years, well below his talent level.

Depending on what JuJu gets, estimates are 12-18/year. D Hop is in that range, heck he could be cheaper! 19 and 14 the next two years so 16.5 average.

If they got Hopkins then JJSS isnt coming back. That isnt much more money for a HUGE upgrade.

So this isnt Stars and Scrubbs. Its upgrading one position, a very important one, for not much more money.

He doesnt have to feed Hopkins, unless hes open, which he usually is. Hopkins wants to WIN.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Not to quibble with your logic, but we also lost to BUF 24-20 and CIN 27-24 in 2022. Not to put too fine a point on it, we lost those games because we couldn't score points, because we were fielding those same role players. And if not for the Damar thing, we might not have gotten the 1-seed.

So the fact that that it worked once, well, let's be honest and admit there was a few mitigating factors that helped us out along the way.

I get that acquiring DHop would probably mess up the careful architecture of what Veach's put together the last three or so years. I get that it would probably mean letting some good players go earlier than expected, like Sneed/Gay/Bolton. It might. It's even likely.

But again, I'm not necessarily hung up on DHop or bust. He's just convenient as an example.

But Parris? Come on, we can't do better than that? One step up in class isn't worth a look? Maybe just peek at a good WR2 (WR between 33 and 42?)?

Toney goes out for any significant length of time, which is somewhat likely, and it's:

MVS

Skyy

Watson (if he comes back)

Ross (if either is healthy enough)

Kemp/Powell/Fryfogle???

And what happens if Kelce misses any time? That's the crew you want to roll with? How much can Pat carry?

Here's the thing: You seem to see 2022 as a blueprint for how to move forward. I see it as something of an aberration. A lot of lucky things happened. Like a 7th round rookie suddenly becoming a top-tier RB1. Another 7th round rook being thrust into a starting role, and not only playing well enough, but making a few big plays.

And so on. That doesn't make it the only best way. it just means we have incredible coaching, generational talents at both QB and TE, and a few things just bounced in our favor.

Simply putting some better quality pieces out there means needing less luck. They don't have to be Elite, but they shouldn't have to be JAGs either.

It's a thin margin between winning and losing. Luck is a factor in every championship season. I can go through the Patriots 6 rings and show you a TON of lucky moments for them, starting with Brady's fumble in the snow against the Raiders. Similar bizarre stuff happened in many other championship years for them too.