Dorsey gone?

[George Liquor]

Per 610.

The ****?

[Nickhead]

i really don't get the fascination with the green bay packers, personally. what have THEY done compared to say, the PATRIOTS, or DENVER, or the STEELERS, in the last 15 years?

sometimes i think too many people hang their hats on what the packers have done over 60 years, versus 20.

[Red Dawg]

The subject has been ran through the ringer. Seems like Dorsey made decisions on his own to many times and left people in the dark before doing them one to many times. End of story.

[booger]

Gutekunst is one I would like to see them interview. Like John Schneider, he spent a year in KC in the late 90s early 2000s working under Chuck Cook, Lynn Stiles, and Bill Kuharich. Leave it to Carl to let the young talent slip out the door...

Moving on from McCracken made no sense. But moving on from Will Lewis after losing Ballard sure didn't. It left Veach and Borgonzi as the longest tenured personnel men besides a couple area scouts. I like Tim Terry as the new director of pro personnel but it's his first in a director role. Asst. Director of Pro Personnel up in GB. Dorsey's first staff hires he kept a bunch of left overs. He knew Ballard well since both scouted in the same division. He knew he was sharp and made an excellent hire there. Lewis was someone he knew from GB. Marvin Allen was just a long time area scout with the Falcons with no Director of College Scouting experience. And he's a National Scout now. Demotion.

Matt Donahoe and Jason Lamb were interns in GB. Now area scouts. Dan Zegers was an equipment and scouting department intern then Dorsey's scouting asst. here. Jim Noel spent a year coaching at Temple. Matt Rhoule and Reid are close. Plus Britt Reid was at Temple. Trey Koziol was brought on as much as anything else with him knowing Ryan Poles who was promoted recently to Director of College Scouting from College scouting coordinator. Poles was Matt Ryan's LT and Koziol his TE at Boston College.

Willie Davis (yes, the WR) and Terry Delp are area scouts hired by Carl and have hung around. Brandt Tilis (cap analyst) Ryan Poles, Ryne Nutt, Pat Sperduto, and Mike Borgonzi were Pioli hires. And good for Dorsey for not shit canning them just because and hiring his own guys. It's a good thing they got to learn under Dorsey and Ballard. All were young and hungry even though very green. But they must be doing something right.

Poles promotion caught me off guard a bit. He was a administrator and then coordinator for College Scouting before just being promoted last month to Director of College Scouting. I don't think he did much road scouting. More logistics and scheduling. But he has a good reputation and already being really organized and detailed, if the scouting comes natural he could be a fast riser. I figured that job would go to Ryne Nutt or Trey Koziol.

This current crew is young and inexperience at the top. I wouldn't mind to see Will Lewis come back as Director of Football Operations or Player personnel if Borgonzi gets promoted to VP of Player Personnel or even Asst GM. I think like most that Veach gets GM. They need some experience though. Maybe Senior Personnel Executive of the Packers Alonzo Highsmith who Reid knows well. He is another scout only type though. This Ryan Cowden would be great to get as an asst GM or VP of Player Personnel with Veach as GM. But as the case with Fitterer he could stay put and wait or their teams could promote them as well. But with the cash available with Veach most likely to not break the bank as a first time GM they need at least one hire with some experience. This new legal/cap guy Chris Shea could also play a bigger role as well.

[booger]

I'm gonna slap a bitch if they bring Ryan Grigson's useless ass in to help Veach just because of his history with Reid

[booger]

Matt Russell with the Donkeys was an area scout for Reid in Philly for a couple years.

[booger]

The Giants Marc Ross, who was a popular name when Pioli was hired, also has a history with Reid.
http://www.giants.com/team/staff/mar...d-ea613a65d0de

[ChiefRocka]

Dorsey: I'll stay as long as it takes to build a Super Bowl contender and not a second longer

Hunt: Deal!!

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by DaWolf

And there it is. Clearest explanation thus far with specific examples of moves Dorsey made that led to this...

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/06/29/k...d-nfl-notebook

Strange its almost like most of CP has no clue what they are talking about.

Not sure how everyone didn't know what was going on behind closed doors at Arrowhead.

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by DaWolf

And there it is. Clearest explanation thus far with specific examples of moves Dorsey made that led to this...

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/06/29/k...d-nfl-notebook

But let’s start with the Chiefs. Though most people in that organization seem to maintain genuine affection for Dorsey, issues simmered there for almost two years. They began to boil over following the departure of director of football operations Chris Ballard in January, and came to a head at a most unusual juncture in the NFL calendar—the deadest time of the football year.

Back in February, with the five-year deals of Dorsey and coach Andy Reid set to expire after the 2017 season, Chiefs chairman Clark Hunt told the Kansas City Star: “I would expect to sit down with them over the course of the next year and talk about an extension.” The Reid talks happened, and a deal was struck to keep him in Kansas City through the 2021 season. The Dorsey talks didn’t.

So there are two questions to answer: 1) What changed? 2) How did Hunt see what few on the outside could, and what few on the inside thought would never reach the ownership level?

The truth is, some of this traces back to a shift in the organizational model in 2013. Scott Pioli was the only person on the football side reporting to Hunt from 2009-12, and Hunt changed that, in part, because he wanted more oversight. So Reid, Dorsey and president Mark Donovan would all report to Hunt, as Hunt was determined not to let problems fester as they had with Pioli and ex-coach Todd Haley.

In practice, that meant Hunt had a better view of the internal issues than many realized, particularly since Reid and Dorsey set up their football operation in the old Eagle model, with coaching and scouting somewhat sovereign to one another.

Given the power each then wielded, the stock criticism of Dorsey—that while he’s incredibly respected as an evaluator, he’s more scout than manager—was validated with a level of disorganization that was noticeable before the hyper-organized Ballard departed, and obvious after he left for Indy.
As one source explained it, “It wasn’t dysfunction so much as it was decisions were being made that seemed to come out of nowhere. So that existed, but the people here weren’t aware that ownership was aware of it. … You look back now, how it worked out, and ownership was more aware that it didn’t need to be run that way.”

There were also a few flash points to prove it out over the past 18 months:

• The selection of Stanford quarterback Kevin Hogan in the fifth round of the 2016 draft. That move stunned scouts and coaches, based on the evaluation and meetings leading up to the draft. Hogan didn’t wind up making the team four months later, and started last season on the Browns’ practice squad.

• The four-year, $48 million extension with left tackle Eric Fisher in August 2016. At the time of signing, Fisher had failed to entrench himself at the left tackle spot he was drafted to play. In fact, Fisher lost the job to Donald Stephenson during the 2015 season, and Fisher was flipped to the right side. The Chiefs still did the big contract, despite having a year left on Fisher’s rookie deal, and an option year after that.

• The five-year, $41.25 million deal for guard Laurent Duvernay-Tardif in February. This deal came, like Fisher’s, in Duvernay-Tardif’s first offseason eligible for a second contract. Meanwhile, the Justin Houston and Eric Berry contract talks simmered—cap guru Trip MacCracken was let go last month—and the team has spent the past couple years perilously close to the salary cap.

Others in the building saw signs of decisions becoming less collaborative, and more centered on Dorsey’s instincts. It also didn’t go unnoticed that Dorsey’s draft picks, like Fisher and Duvernay-Tardif, were the ones getting paid early. And the way the Jeremy Maclin release was handled—key members of the staff didn’t know until after it became public—didn’t help squash the internal whispering.

This isn’t to say there weren’t decisions that were made with a roaring consensus from the team’s football operation. One such call was the one to pursue Texas Tech quarterback Patrick Mahomes in the draft. The Chiefs moved aggressively to make it happen.

But too often, there were big moves made where scouts and coaches were left scratching their heads. It still bothers some close to Dorsey that Hunt caught wind of it, because there certainly weren’t many signs externally that the ax was about to drop. Some still maintain that it was right to keep these issues in-house, since they may have been fixable.

The trouble with that, of course, was the Chiefs were going to have to sign up for another half-decade with Dorsey. And in the end, that’s something that Hunt wasn’t going to do.

[Red Dawg]

Originally Posted by Nickhead

i really don't get the fascination with the green bay packers, personally. what have THEY done compared to say, the PATRIOTS, or DENVER, or the STEELERS, in the last 15 years?

sometimes i think too many people hang their hats on what the packers have done over 60 years, versus 20.

I agree. They have one title with Rogers but they should have more. If they were smart they would get him a defense but all they do is draft and almost never fill in with vets. To me they have done a shit job maximizing Rogers career and when hes gone they will Suck ass.

[Granslamwhich]

Hopefully, whoever becomes the new GM can learn fast and not **** up our roster too bad.

[Red Dawg]

Hopefully the new GM will manage contracts and the cap better so we can make an effort to improve the team in the off season.

I am on board with building through the draft but you can't just do that every year.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Back in February, with the five-year deals of Dorsey and coach Andy Reid set to expire after the 2017 season, Chiefs chairman Clark Hunt told the Kansas City Star: “I would expect to sit down with them over the course of the next year and talk about an extension.” The Reid talks happened, and a deal was struck to keep him in Kansas City through the 2021 season.

I think Reid should be talked to and his play calling should, at the least, be supplemented with another offensive mind. That said I think he's done a pretty good job and like the extension and the stability it provides.

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

The Dorsey talks didn’t.

Whut?

That talk did happen.

We can argue and speculate over how it went and why it ended up like it did but they did meet to discuss Dorsey's contract and its extension...

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by Tuckdaddy

I agree. They have one title with Rogers but they should have more. If they were smart they would get him a defense but all they do is draft and almost never fill in with vets. To me they have done a shit job maximizing Rogers career and when hes gone they will Suck ass.

John Schneider-Seahawks GM
Reggie McKenzie-Raiders GM
John Dorsey-ex-Chiefs GM

Look at what all these guys have done as GM's, especially in the draft. These guys were all together in GB with Ted Thompson until 2010 and the guys who are there now running for the GM position were lower level scouts.
They won the SB in 2010 bc of those men. They had like 20 guys on IR but incredible depth through team building.

Now that all these guys left in 2010-2013, we see that Ted Thompson sucks ass and the Packers have fallen off.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

That MMQB article definitely seems in line with realistic thinking... it paints the move as more sensible than it has been thus far.

I wish KC still had Ballard, but I think they should be fine. A lot rides on Mahomes.