Chiefs focused on Mahomes, McCaffrey, and Cunningham in RD1

[pugsnotdrugs19]

SEE POST #11 FIRST

... the word in the Chiefs building is that they would like to trade up for QB Patrick Mahomes or RB Christian McCaffrey in the first round. If this falls through, he said they like ILB Zach Cunningham a lot as well.

[Chief Northman]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Read the article I posted in the draft forum...you'll like Webb after you're done.

He's got most of the tools to be a good starter in the league.

2 things that bother mecabout Webb:

1) Long delivery
2) Not a great pocket sense. Internal clock needs to be better.

He has a hose of an arm and seems intelligent. He also has 2-3 WTF throws each game. His UCLA tape is frustrating. He should have been picked multiple times and got lucky. He will stare down receivers at times.

I don't like him at 27. If no Mahomes, I'd prefer Kizer.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by Chief Northman

2 things that bother mecabout Webb:

1) Long delivery
2) Not a great pocket sense. Internal clock needs to be better.

He has a hose of an arm and seems intelligent. He also has 2-3 WTF throws each game. His UCLA tape is frustrating. He should have been picked multiple times and got lucky. He will stare down receivers at times.

I don't like him at 27. If no Mahomes, I'd prefer Kizer.

I agree. I would take Kizer before him too.

My point is that this draft is very unique with QB's who have a lot of tools to build on. I'm looking back at previous drafts and not seeing anything like this.
2014 had a lot of QB's, but JFF and Bridgewater were frail. 2012 had Weeden, Foles and Brock so it's pretty close, but Weeden was old as hell.

Kizer and Webb are the 4/5 guys in the class and they both have A+ size, arms and willingness to learn. They both got benched and both had bad supporting casts around them in 2016. The point is that we have real options in this draft. Kizer and Webb aren't much different front Paxton Lynch as a prospect IMO.

Personally my board is Watson,Mahomes, Trubisky, Kizer, Webb. IMO the first 3 are gone early. I would love either Kizer or Webb, but I prefer Kizer.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by BigMeatballBillay

Drew Brees and Tom Brady say what up. This isnt baseball.

Youre using a flawed metric that rated Kessler and Flacco the same. How bout production?405 and 420 in 2 games against Alabama is meaningless?

1 qb since 08 has been successful throwing under 55. I'm not banking a pick in an outlier.

So we're gonna base this on production vs alabama? Check out the qbs who've had big games against them recently. Not exactly the whose who of nfl qbing.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Originally Posted by Chief Northman

pugs:

I only saw the edited version of your original post in this thread. I am not going to press you about your source, BUT, did you get an indication of "the price point" the Chiefs were expecting to have to meet in pursuing Mahomes? It seems more and more that he may go in the early teens, and more specifically it sounds like Arizona will take him at 13.

Wondering if your source indicated an expectation to have to move up if he was target #1.

Yeah unfortunately there was no indication of how much they might be willing to give up or how far they would go, but, McCaffrey and Mahomes would both likely require trades into the top 12 to get, if not higher. So, maybe they are willing to go there?

[Chief Northman]

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19

Yeah unfortunately there was no indication of how much they might be willing to give up or how far they would go, but, McCaffrey and Mahomes would both likely require trades into the top 12 to get, if not higher. So, maybe they are willing to go there?

Boy you have to be sold on them to pay that kind of a price - yikes.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

I could see gaining a single MPH or two, but gaining 6 seems pretty hefty.

And that's where he needs to get to even have adequate velocity.

With his interception issues and arm strength problems, I'm out on Watson. I could talk myself into Kizer, Trubisky or even Webb but I'm a hard pass on Watson. I do not like the guy at all. Running quarterbacks don't make it in the NFL and if you take away the guys legs, he's Peterman but more reckless.

The 'winner' shit just doesn't apply. Again, there is simply no correlation to winning in college and winning in the pros.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigMeatballBillay

Dude threwas for 3 TDs and 420 yards against one of the best college defenses in awhile. I've watched his tape I don't see where his lack of arm strength hurts him as much as poor decision making and shit footwork. You guys act like he's Ken Dorsey he isnt.

If Ken Dorsey ran faster, that's exactly who he'd be.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

I think back to when the Falcons traded up from 27 to 6 to draft Julio Jones. Everyone thought the trade was too rich, even Belichick told Dimitroff not to do it. But look at it now.

I don't think there is any way they make the Super Bowl without Julio Jones. In our case, we are talking about the most important position of course, QB. And so, if I'm the Chiefs and I am 100% sold that there is a QB in this draft that can lead the franchise for 10-15 years, they should give up what is necessary to draft him.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19

I think back to when the Falcons traded up from 27 to 6 to draft Julio Jones. Everyone thought the trade was too rich, even Belichick told Dimitroff not to do it. But look at it now.

DO IT NEXT YEAR FOR A REAL QB

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigMeatballBillay

Drew Brees and Tom Brady say what up. This isnt baseball.

Youre using a flawed metric that rated Kessler and Flacco the same. How bout production?405 and 420 in 2 games against Alabama is meaningless?

Why do people continue to insist that Brady has a noodle arm?

Watch the sportscience episode - Brady can hum it in at 60 mph. Brady has a goddamn cannon when he needs it.

And this Drew Brees shit has to stop. Please. Drew Brees is historically precise. There's arguably never been a more accurate passer in NFL history than Drew Brees. Again, it gets back to calling every undersized righthanded pitcher Greg Maddux. No - these are the exceptions that prove the rules. They're the guys that show just how perfect you have to be to succeed with the limited tools they have. Oh, and Drew Brees threw 52, FYI.

[Coogs]

Watson also has a very quick release. 0.35 according to sports science.

Now, I don't know what a slow delivery is, but for the heck of it, I am going to go 0.10 more for 0.45.

At 49 mph, Watson's ball is traveling at 24 yards a second upon release, or 2.4 yards every tenth of a second.

At 55 mph, a ball is traveling at 27 yards a second upon release, or 2.7 yards every tenth of a second.

If Watson gets the ball out one tenth of a second quicker, it takes 8 tenths for the two passes to be at the same point on the field, or 21.6 yards downfield when that happens.

If Watson increases his speed to 51, and holds that one tenth edge in release time, the distance goes out to 33.8 yards before the two passes would be at the same point.

[DJ's left nut]

Here, I'm bringing this over from the draft thread for those that don't hang out there:

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost....&postcount=393

Key figure for the 'arm strength isn't important' crowd:

The difference between Watson's velocity and Mahomes velocity on a 20 yard throw (or about a 15 yard out by the time you factor in the lateral range) is 4 feet. When Mahomes throws that ball, by the time it gets to his WR, Watson's pass is still 4 ft behind it.

In temporal terms, it takes Mahomes about .15 seconds less time to get from hand to target than Watson. If that's a WR, a .15 second 40 difference gets him killed but what good is that extra speed if the QB gives it all back?

That 4 ft makes all the difference between a first down and a pick 6. Think of how many windows close just as the DB gets there and how many times that ball gets batted/taken away if the ball is 4 feet further back at that same point in time.

Arm issues are leading to some of these picks for Watson. There's a very good argument to make that he simply doesn't have NFL arm strength.

And that's on a simple 15 yard out; it's a throw that you HAVE to be able to make. Moreover, that requires that you cut down half the field. That same distance to the far hash is about an 8-10 yard out. So you're effectively eliminating half the field with Watson because if he has to throw an out route to the far side, anything past 10 yards is going to take 4+ seconds longer to get there than a QB with a strong arm and that ****er is getting housed.

That's an INCREDIBLE amount of time and folks are just ignoring it.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Coogs

Watson also has a very quick release. 0.35 according to sports science.

Now, I don't know what a slow delivery is, but for the heck of it, I am going to go 0.10 more for 0.45.

At 49 mph, Watson's ball is traveling at 24 yards a second upon release, or 2.4 yards every tenth of a second.

At 55 mph, a ball is traveling at 27 yards a second upon release, or 2.7 yards every tenth of a second.

If Watson gets the ball out one tenth of a second quicker, it takes 8 tenths for the two passes to be at the same point on the field, or 21.6 yards downfield when that happens.

If Watson increases his speed to 51, and holds that one tenth edge in release time, the distance goes out to 33.8 yards before the two passes would be at the same point.

Release makes a difference, to be sure. As does anticipation. But that gets back to the Brees comparison; you have to be perfect. And I don't see that in Watson at all.

I haven't seen the SS you're referring to; does it compare most of the prospects releases? It's damn hard to pick that up just by watching clips. I always felt like his release was about average since he comes over the top like he does but I am open to being convinced otherwise.

[Coogs]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Release makes a difference, to be sure. As does anticipation. But that gets back to the Brees comparison; you have to be perfect. And I don't see that in Watson at all.

I haven't seen the SS you're referring to; does it compare most of the prospects releases? It's damn hard to pick that up just by watching clips. I always felt like his release was about average since he comes over the top like he does but I am open to being convinced otherwise.

I haven't seen it either. I would like too. Just saw Watson has the quickest one at 0.35, which is the same as Aaron Rodgers.

I have not been able to find any other times.

[DJ's left nut]

Follow up, Coogs - who in this draft would you say has a 'slow' release?

Because seriously, I can't find a scouting report on any of these guys that doesn't say 'quick release' somewhere in it. The release thing is pretty uniform for most passers these days and I don't see anything in Watson that leads me to believe his release is appreciably quicker than Mahomes, Webb or any of the other, much stronger armed passers available.

That arm's a liability, man.