State of the Chiefs drafting going forward

O.city · 02-07-2019, 09:43 AM

I think we need to reset our calculus for the Chiefs drafting first rounders going forward. We can all agree they're going to be or atleast should be barring any unforeseen issues, pretty good for a while. They're going to be drafting late in the first for a while.

Sure there is always the option to trade up, but usually, when you're good you have good players. Good players tend to get big contracts so the Chiefs aren't going to be able to pay everyone. The Draft is going to become super important, even moreso than in the past at replacing good talent.

Drafting at the back end of the first is, or atleast seems to me to be, different than even in the teens in terms of the player you're going to get.

They aren't going to grab many blue chippers that late and there will be some flawed players. Not to say bad players, but guys that need development etc.

I think we need to re look at how we eval these guys that are going to go late for the Chiefs. In my Devin Bush thread, we discussed not taking him in the first because he's 5"11. That's not ideal, sure, but it's (IMO) not a nonstarter.

So lets discuss this a bit in this thread. How do we need to change what we're looking for?

staylor26 · 02-07-2019, 10:08 AM

I think you have to find guys that for one reason or another are great values.

Peters was a great value because of character issues.

Jones was a great value because of depth at the postion in his class.

Hockenson would abe a great value because of depth too, but also combined with positional value.

This is why Jacobs intrigued me a little despite me usually not liking RB in round 1. He’s a RB that doesn’t have a ton of tape. Some reliable people have this guy as a top 10 talent. That’s value.

O.city · 02-07-2019, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26

I think you have to find guys that for one reason or another are great values.

Peters was a great value because of character issues.

Jones was a great value because of depth at the postion in his class.

Hockenson would abe a great value because of depth too, but also combined with positional value.

This is why Jacobs intrigued me a little despite me usually not liking RB in round 1. He’s a RB that doesn’t have a ton of tape. Some reliable people have this guy as a top 10 talent. That’s value.

He's still a RB though.

staylor26 · 02-07-2019, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

He's still a RB though.

Hence me not pounding the table...

O.city · 02-07-2019, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26

Hence me not pounding the table...

I don't think it would matter in discussion of him anyway, I just don't know that Andy values the RB spot that highly.

staylor26 · 02-07-2019, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

I don't think it would matter in discussion of him anyway, I just don't know that Andy values the RB spot that highly.

That could be that case, but he’s still a good example of what I’m getting at here.

The best way to make up for late picks it to find value at those spots.

Mr Hammock · 02-17-2019, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26

I think you have to find guys that for one reason or another are great values.

Peters was a great value because of character issues.

Jones was a great value because of depth at the postion in his class.

Hockenson would abe a great value because of depth too, but also combined with positional value.

This is why Jacobs intrigued me a little despite me usually not liking RB in round 1. He’s a RB that doesn’t have a ton of tape. Some reliable people have this guy as a top 10 talent. That’s value.

If Jacobs drops that far then I think he would be in play at #29. I don't think he makes it that far though. Many people have him mocked to the Buccaneers at #5... While that might be a bit eager... He probably won't make it out of the top 15.

Chargem · 02-17-2019, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hammock

If Jacobs drops that far then I think he would be in play at #29. I don't think he makes it that far though. Many people have him mocked to the Buccaneers at #5... While that might be a bit eager... He probably won't make it out of the top 15.

I would be surprised if anyone but MJD mocked Jacobs to the Buccs at #5, and that guys draft was ridiculously bad.

O.city · 02-07-2019, 10:19 AM

One of the things I think is much more important in this spot, is taking guys because of what they can do and having them do that.

Not necessarily not taking them because of what they can't do. If that makes sense?

Guys later are going to have some rough spots. That's fine. Don't ask them to do those things right away.

kccrow · 02-07-2019, 06:41 PM

My opinion is draft with the depth of the draft rather than against it like the Chiefs have done in recent history. That's where you're going to get good values and I agree with staylor on finding values.

The positions I think will have value are DT, DE, TE, RB, and OG.

Sure, you might need to take a CB or S early because their arent many good ones, but then you need to hit those 2nd and 3rd rounders so go for the values that will slide due to depth of the draft. Good place to probably get a DE, a TE, and a LG or something of the like that sets your team up with depth and future replacements.

Belichick is a genius in this regard. He doesn't generally force selections based on need, hell he even fills immediate needs with mid-level free agents. He just goes with the draft and gets good talent.

Chargem · 02-09-2019, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

My opinion is draft with the depth of the draft rather than against it like the Chiefs have done in recent history. That's where you're going to get good values and I agree with staylor on finding values.

The positions I think will have value are DT, DE, TE, RB, and OG.

Sure, you might need to take a CB or S early because their arent many good ones, but then you need to hit those 2nd and 3rd rounders so go for the values that will slide due to depth of the draft. Good place to probably get a DE, a TE, and a LG or something of the like that sets your team up with depth and future replacements.

Belichick is a genius in this regard. He doesn't generally force selections based on need, hell he even fills immediate needs with mid-level free agents. He just goes with the draft and gets good talent.

I would maybe add WR to the positions where the draft is deep?

I also like looking for guys who might fall due to off field issues. Obviously it needs a lot of due diligence to make sure whatever historic issue is gone and then the extra effort to keep the guy on the straight and narrow after you sign him but it really can add a lot of value.

kcbubb · 02-17-2019, 01:39 AM

I think this type of thinking supports taking Jeffery Simmons at the top of the 2nd. He’s got issues but he’s an elite talent and he can hopefully get healthy by the playoffs.

RunKC · 02-17-2019, 02:08 PM

This draft and the immediate future has to be focused on pass rush. Houston and Ford are what they are: injury prone players who won’t be here beyond 2020. It will be somewhat surprising if even one of them is playing with us in 2020.
What happens if Houston is cut and we rely on injury prone Ford who gets hurt like his past dictates? You’re relying an awful lot on Speaks, Tanoh and a retread.

Let’s face it: pass rushers are a goddamn fortune and we all know that we can’t afford to drop money on one with our current situation.

Right now we have Fuller and Ward at corner and they are serviceable. I feel like a corner not named Byron Murphy is questionable in worth compared to what a pass rusher can provide. I’m thinking there might be some cheaper players to go for in FA and our 2nd rd pick would be just as good of use.
Plus a highly paid pass rusher’s salary is roughly $10 million more per year than a highly paid corner.

Yeah I’m thinking pass rusher. Based on Andy’s history, I bet he is too.

Chargem · 02-17-2019, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

This draft and the immediate future has to be focused on pass rush. Houston and Ford are what they are: injury prone players who won’t be here beyond 2020. It will be somewhat surprising if even one of them is playing with us in 2020.
What happens if Houston is cut and we rely on injury prone Ford who gets hurt like his past dictates? You’re relying an awful lot on Speaks, Tanoh and a retread.

Let’s face it: pass rushers are a goddamn fortune and we all know that we can’t afford to drop money on one with our current situation.

Right now we have Fuller and Ward at corner and they are serviceable. I feel like a corner not named Byron Murphy is questionable in worth compared to what a pass rusher can provide. I’m thinking there might be some cheaper players to go for in FA and our 2nd rd pick would be just as good of use.
Plus a highly paid pass rusher’s salary is roughly $10 million more per year than a highly paid corner.

Yeah I’m thinking pass rusher. Based on Andy’s history, I bet he is too.

I'd say there's a chance they look at pass rusher in the first, but maybe they feel the secondary is the more immediate concern and so they either draft a developmental pass rusher this year or defer it until next years draft to look for one in the 1st round.

02-07-2019, 09:43 AM	Topic Starter
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-495936	State of the Chiefs drafting going forward I think we need to reset our calculus for the Chiefs drafting first rounders going forward. We can all agree they're going to be or atleast should be barring any unforeseen issues, pretty good for a while. They're going to be drafting late in the first for a while. Sure there is always the option to trade up, but usually, when you're good you have good players. Good players tend to get big contracts so the Chiefs aren't going to be able to pay everyone. The Draft is going to become super important, even moreso than in the past at replacing good talent. Drafting at the back end of the first is, or atleast seems to me to be, different than even in the teens in terms of the player you're going to get. They aren't going to grab many blue chippers that late and there will be some flawed players. Not to say bad players, but guys that need development etc. I think we need to re look at how we eval these guys that are going to go late for the Chiefs. In my Devin Bush thread, we discussed not taking him in the first because he's 5"11. That's not ideal, sure, but it's (IMO) not a nonstarter. So lets discuss this a bit in this thread. How do we need to change what we're looking for?
Posts: 84,123

02-07-2019, 10:19 AM	#9
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-495936	One of the things I think is much more important in this spot, is taking guys because of what they can do and having them do that. Not necessarily not taking them because of what they can't do. If that makes sense? Guys later are going to have some rough spots. That's fine. Don't ask them to do those things right away.
Posts: 84,123

02-07-2019, 06:41 PM	#10
kccrow MVP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $-1020000	My opinion is draft with the depth of the draft rather than against it like the Chiefs have done in recent history. That's where you're going to get good values and I agree with staylor on finding values. The positions I think will have value are DT, DE, TE, RB, and OG. Sure, you might need to take a CB or S early because their arent many good ones, but then you need to hit those 2nd and 3rd rounders so go for the values that will slide due to depth of the draft. Good place to probably get a DE, a TE, and a LG or something of the like that sets your team up with depth and future replacements. Belichick is a genius in this regard. He doesn't generally force selections based on need, hell he even fills immediate needs with mid-level free agents. He just goes with the draft and gets good talent.
Posts: 13,969

02-17-2019, 01:39 AM	#12
kcbubb Veteran Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $5196719	I think this type of thinking supports taking Jeffery Simmons at the top of the 2nd. He’s got issues but he’s an elite talent and he can hopefully get healthy by the playoffs.
Posts: 2,544

02-17-2019, 02:08 PM	#13
RunKC Andy Reid Supporter Join Date: Apr 2012 Casino cash: $-1370389	This draft and the immediate future has to be focused on pass rush. Houston and Ford are what they are: injury prone players who won’t be here beyond 2020. It will be somewhat surprising if even one of them is playing with us in 2020. What happens if Houston is cut and we rely on injury prone Ford who gets hurt like his past dictates? You’re relying an awful lot on Speaks, Tanoh and a retread. Let’s face it: pass rushers are a goddamn fortune and we all know that we can’t afford to drop money on one with our current situation. Right now we have Fuller and Ward at corner and they are serviceable. I feel like a corner not named Byron Murphy is questionable in worth compared to what a pass rusher can provide. I’m thinking there might be some cheaper players to go for in FA and our 2nd rd pick would be just as good of use. Plus a highly paid pass rusher’s salary is roughly $10 million more per year than a highly paid corner. Yeah I’m thinking pass rusher. Based on Andy’s history, I bet he is too. __________________ Mike Greenberg@Espngreeny I can’t fathom what it must be like to be a fan of the #Chiefs. Adopt a Chief: Jared Wiley
Posts: 52,005

02-07-2019, 10:08 AM	#2
staylor26 In Search of a Life Join Date: Oct 2007 Casino cash: $-1850960	I think you have to find guys that for one reason or another are great values. Peters was a great value because of character issues. Jones was a great value because of depth at the postion in his class. Hockenson would abe a great value because of depth too, but also combined with positional value. This is why Jacobs intrigued me a little despite me usually not liking RB in round 1. He’s a RB that doesn’t have a ton of tape. Some reliable people have this guy as a top 10 talent. That’s value.
Posts: 52,762