Are We Headed For Vermeil 2.0?

[petegz28]

The way Mahomes can sling the ball shows promise for some high scoring offense. That being said, is the defense going to be able to cut it this season?

One thing that bailed out the defense to a degree the last few seasons was that Smith rarely turned the ball over. Even in a 3 & out situation, MVP usually kicked the ball deep enough to control field position.

Mahomes is neither Green nor Smith. I think he will put up the points Green did but obviously is going to have more turnovers than Smith did. Which is okay. But the defense can't be what it has been.

The defense and Bob Sutton are going to have to learn how to help out when those turnovers happen as they are probably going to happen more than they are used too given the nature of Mahomes. We know there are going to be some great passing plays. We also know that gunslingers will usually throw a few more INT's as well trying to make plays happen. Again, that is okay.

The Sutton defense of "bend but don't break" may have to take a page out of the Denver defense and start really getting after the QB and actually shutting down offenses before they get into FG range, etc.

If our defense is anything like has been during the Sutton era, we could be heading toward Vermeil 2.0 where you're going to have to hope 49 points is enough to win.

[O.city]

Well, they brought in a shit load of new starters on D, so I think the front office agrees?

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by O.city

Well, they brought in a shit load of new starters on D, so I think the front office agrees?

I'm more worried about Sutton more than the players.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by petegz28

I'm more worried about Sutton more than the players.

Why?

When he had the players to fit his system his first 3 or so years here, the defense was really good.

So?

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by O.city

Why?

When he had the players to fit his system his first 3 or so years here, the defense was really good.

So?

Really good? Blew huge lead in the playoff? Twice! 2 of the 4 worst blown leads in the playoffs in the history of football are owned by this guy in a short stint of 4 years.

I'd say we had really 1 decent year of defense from Sutton. And even in that we blew a huge lead in the playoffs.

Sutton's defenses over the last few years have taken on a pattern of playing soft. I am just a bit concerned that in all the defensive issues, the coach of the defense is not being looked at as part of the problem.

We cannot continue playing a 3 man rush, playing CB's 10 yards off on 3rd and medium, consistently giving up 3rd and long and then claiming victory because after a 7 minute drive we held the other team to a FG.

That hasn't really worked well.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by petegz28

Really good? Blew huge lead in the playoff? Twice! 2 of the 4 worst blown leads in the playoffs in the history of football are owned by this guy in a short stint of 4 years.

I'd say we had really 1 decent year of defense from Sutton. And even in that we blew a huge lead in the playoffs.

Sutton's defenses over the last few years have taken on a pattern of playing soft. I am just a bit concerned that in all the defensive issues, the coach of the defense is not being looked at as part of the problem.

We cannot continue playing a 3 man rush, playing CB's 10 yards off on 3rd and medium, consistently giving up 3rd and long and then claiming victory because after a 7 minute drive we held the other team to a FG.

That hasn't really worked well.

If we go by the statistics, they've had really good defenses. If we go by Pete's feelings, maybe not.


The 14,15,16 defenses were pretty damn good.

[Coochie liquor]

Originally Posted by petegz28

Really good? Blew huge lead in the playoff? Twice! 2 of the 4 worst blown leads in the playoffs in the history of football are owned by this guy in a short stint of 4 years.

I'd say we had really 1 decent year of defense from Sutton. And even in that we blew a huge lead in the playoffs.

Sutton's defenses over the last few years have taken on a pattern of playing soft. I am just a bit concerned that in all the defensive issues, the coach of the defense is not being looked at as part of the problem.

We cannot continue playing a 3 man rush, playing CB's 10 yards off on 3rd and medium, consistently giving up 3rd and long and then claiming victory because after a 7 minute drive we held the other team to a FG.

That hasn't really worked well.

A big difference is we’re going to have a qb who keeps his eyes down field, and isn’t afraid to pull the trigger on a big play instead of running into a sack. Mahomes is surely gonna crush our hopes and dreams sometimes with a interception, and likely at a bad time in the playoffs. But he’s capable of the other side of that coin too. He will likely win us some games with his arm, and playmaking abilities. I’m both playoff games you mentioned, we sputtered badly in the second half on offense. In either of those games a single score would have won it for us. But our old qb couldn’t handle that pressure with the game on the line. When we got into those situations be it regular season or post season, I never had faith that Alex would lead us back once the lead was gone. You could just see it in his mannerisms. Impossible to say if Mahomes can overcome what Alex couldn’t, but at this point we only have hope that he can.

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by petegz28

Really good? Blew huge lead in the playoff? Twice! 2 of the 4 worst blown leads in the playoffs in the history of football are owned by this guy in a short stint of 4 years.

I'd say we had really 1 decent year of defense from Sutton. And even in that we blew a huge lead in the playoffs.

Both of those blown leads included a huge lead attained by aggressive offense in the first half, followed by the same offense going in a shell and not scoring points.

I blame Reid and Smith for both playoff losses more than I'd blame the defense - factor in Andrew Luck dribbling a fumble into the end zone on one game and Revis batting Mariota's duck back to him for a touchdown for the weirdness factor...THEN you've got stuff like DJs murder of Mariota called 'down by forward progress" (!) And somehow, that Colts defender was able to possess Alex Smith's 4th qtr fumble in the Colts playoff loss while literally laying on the ground, one butt check (along with half his body) being completely out of bounds...let's not even mention the (uncalled) mugging of DBowe on the final drive vs the Colts...

There's a LOT more to it than 'defense blew the leads in the playoffs'.

If Reid OR the refs call a better game, in EITHER game, we win

In a time where the rules are changed to favor the offense and reworded as to be able to be interpreted as opposed to absolute and enforceable, Reid/Smith and the refs deserve as much or more of the blame than the defense in BOTH of those losses.

Smith cost us the Pittsburgh game the year before last by missing wide open receivers in a game where points were at a premium.

We got beat at NE because Justin Houston was out so Sutton had to sit back and run Zone vs Brady, and Brady just picked us apart. And of course Reid/Smith couldn't keep up, points-wise.

It's a simpleton who goes "that defense sucks. Is this the Dick Vermeil era?"

Come on.

Bob Sutton is WAY better than Greg Robinson.

[Eleazar]

Originally Posted by O.city

Why?

When he had the players to fit his system his first 3 or so years here, the defense was really good.

So?

Because the entire thing is built on the team riding their luck with turnovers, and that doesn't work consistently against great teams.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Eleazar

Because the entire thing is built on the team riding their luck with turnovers, and that doesn't work consistently against great teams.

Actually, it kind of does. Against great teams, unless you have a great defense, it's tough to consistently get stops without turnovers.

[Randallflagg]

Originally Posted by O.city

Why?

When he had the players to fit his system his first 3 or so years here, the defense was really good.

So?

Sorry, But I don't agree. This Defense hasn't been "good" since the days of Marty. It has been "passable" at best and a "joke" at worst.

The main theme from one season to another? Sutton. I put Sutton in the same category as Dave Adolph. Little more than a waste of time.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Randallflagg

Sorry, But I don't agree. This Defense hasn't been "good" since the days of Marty. It has been "passable" at best and a "joke" at worst.

The main theme from one season to another? Sutton. I put Sutton in the same category as Dave Adolph. Little more than a waste of time.

Well, the stats again, say otherwise a bit.

If the 90's defense is what we're shooting for, well, I guess good luck.

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by Randallflagg

Sorry, But I don't agree. This Defense hasn't been "good" since the days of Marty. It has been "passable" at best and a "joke" at worst.

The main theme from one season to another? Sutton. I put Sutton in the same category as Dave Adolph. Little more than a waste of time.

Sutton does remind me a lot of Adolph and GRob to the point that he seems to try to scheme and "out-think" the other team too often when really you just need to line up and punch ****ers in the mouth. In his defense, I think Reid does the same damn thing.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by O.city

Why?

When he had the players to fit his system his first 3 or so years here, the defense was really good.

So?

Sutton's, "bend before you break", and, "stay bent" systems both suck. He's just stuck with players who bend in a lite breeze.

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[TomBarndtsTwin]

Originally Posted by petegz28

I'm more worried about Sutton more than the players.

I wouldn't be. They've already alluded to that they think it's the players fault from last year and not Suttons. Which is why they completely overhauled the defense.

If the Chiefs finish at or near the bottom of the league again like last year, I'll bet money on it that Sutton is sent packing, as there will be no more excuses for him . . . .