Murray and Queen

kccrow · 04-17-2020, 01:18 PM

So, I think we all agree that Simmons, Murray, and Queen are the cream of the LB crop this year and stand head and shoulders above other prospects (not that another won't end up better...). So, question is do you really think Murray or Queen will be there at 32?

Personally, I really don't think so. I look at the needs out there versus these guys and their skill set, I think the Chiefs would have to trade up to 27 at a minimum.

BryanBusby · 04-17-2020, 01:29 PM

No I don't think so either.

Direckshun · 04-17-2020, 01:42 PM

I think, considering Murray will need to be taught the entire position, that he will be available.

No chance Queen lasts, though. He's ready to mess you up on Day 1.

OKchiefs · 04-17-2020, 02:49 PM

If not, will someone like Willie Gay or Jordyn Brooks be available later and would they be a viable alternative?

Kellerfox · 04-17-2020, 06:48 PM

I’ve seen a lot of smoke that Queen and Murray may not actually be the top 2 ILB after Simmons, and that multiple teams have Jordyn Brooks rated ahead of one, the other, or both. Ive watched a lot of Jordyn Brooks and Kenneth Murray over the past few years, and without hesitation I would take Brooks over Murray 100% of the time at the college level. That said, I do think Murray may have a higher ceiling in the NFL. I honestly like all three and Queen would probably be my preference between the three for the Chiefs scheme.

All that is to say, yes, I think one of Murray or Queen is available for us at 32. Either a team needing a LB will take Brooks/Gay/other and surprise us, or teams will take other positions.

kccrow · 04-17-2020, 08:17 PM

@ Direkshun and Kellerfox

I absolutely dislike Murray against the run. I've been vocal about that. That said, he's athletic as hell and can make plays sideline-to-sideline. I don't think he needs to be "taught the position" but he needs some coaching, especially coverage and taking on blockers. I think Queen is the same type of guy. I think Brooks is the same type of guy. Dye from Oregon is that guy too.

None are "clearly" good at anything other than moving fast. None come downhill well against the run, especially if forced to stack, shed, and scrape. They make plays when they have a free shot or outside the tackle box. I don't know that any of them will ever be that type of player. All of them are weak side players for sure.

None are exceptional man coverage players. They function well in shallow zones. They all have skill sets that could make them very good with regards to coverage and that's what you're projecting with them. I think a huge factor is going to be intelligence and I don't have their Wonderlic scores or in-depth knowledge of that.

I don't know if teams are going to pass on the athletic potential Murray and Queen have. I don't mind Brooks but he doesn't look to have great lateral agility in comparison to Murray and Queen. He is a guy that would benefit most from learning to actually play like a big boy because I think with his size and speed, he'd be a good downhill defender.

I think Baun, Harrison, and Wilson are better linebackers for the NFL right now but they don't have the projection that Murray and Queen have IF they can put it together, especially in coverage, and they don't have the athleticism. Overall, I think its a question of if the guys are coachable and if they have the intelligence, and then you go from there. You aren't touching what they already do well with anyone in this class and those are things elite players do and traits they show.

Wilson remains my favorite overall linebacker in this draft. I think he can be pretty special with some NFL coaching. That said, there's a reason Murray and Queen are considered the top guys and it's not entirely because of what they already do.

**Rain Man** · 04-18-2020, 02:55 PM

I was reading some stuff about Murray the other day that gave me pause. It was stuff about how he has no experience in coverage and had an implication that he'd have a learning curve to fit into a system, that his college system was built around him doing what he wanted and other players adjusting. It concerned me a bit that he wouldn't be a mental fit for an Andy team. Can someone rebut this? I don't watch college football so I merely believe what I read.

View Poll Results: Will Murray or Queen be available at 32?
Yes	6	35.29%
No	11	64.71%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

04-17-2020, 01:18 PM
kccrow MVP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $-1060000	Murray and Queen So, I think we all agree that Simmons, Murray, and Queen are the cream of the LB crop this year and stand head and shoulders above other prospects (not that another won't end up better...). So, question is do you really think Murray or Queen will be there at 32? Personally, I really don't think so. I look at the needs out there versus these guys and their skill set, I think the Chiefs would have to trade up to 27 at a minimum.
Posts: 14,012

04-17-2020, 01:29 PM	#2
BryanBusby In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2006 Casino cash: $3169900 VARSITY	No I don't think so either.
Posts: 22,630

04-17-2020, 01:42 PM	#3
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $2123447	I think, considering Murray will need to be taught the entire position, that he will be available. No chance Queen lasts, though. He's ready to mess you up on Day 1.
Posts: 59,688

04-17-2020, 06:48 PM	#5
Kellerfox Starter Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Phoenix, AZ Casino cash: $-1149600	I’ve seen a lot of smoke that Queen and Murray may not actually be the top 2 ILB after Simmons, and that multiple teams have Jordyn Brooks rated ahead of one, the other, or both. Ive watched a lot of Jordyn Brooks and Kenneth Murray over the past few years, and without hesitation I would take Brooks over Murray 100% of the time at the college level. That said, I do think Murray may have a higher ceiling in the NFL. I honestly like all three and Queen would probably be my preference between the three for the Chiefs scheme. All that is to say, yes, I think one of Murray or Queen is available for us at 32. Either a team needing a LB will take Brooks/Gay/other and surprise us, or teams will take other positions.
Posts: 877

04-17-2020, 08:17 PM	#6
kccrow MVP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $-1060000	@ Direkshun and Kellerfox I absolutely dislike Murray against the run. I've been vocal about that. That said, he's athletic as hell and can make plays sideline-to-sideline. I don't think he needs to be "taught the position" but he needs some coaching, especially coverage and taking on blockers. I think Queen is the same type of guy. I think Brooks is the same type of guy. Dye from Oregon is that guy too. None are "clearly" good at anything other than moving fast. None come downhill well against the run, especially if forced to stack, shed, and scrape. They make plays when they have a free shot or outside the tackle box. I don't know that any of them will ever be that type of player. All of them are weak side players for sure. None are exceptional man coverage players. They function well in shallow zones. They all have skill sets that could make them very good with regards to coverage and that's what you're projecting with them. I think a huge factor is going to be intelligence and I don't have their Wonderlic scores or in-depth knowledge of that. I don't know if teams are going to pass on the athletic potential Murray and Queen have. I don't mind Brooks but he doesn't look to have great lateral agility in comparison to Murray and Queen. He is a guy that would benefit most from learning to actually play like a big boy because I think with his size and speed, he'd be a good downhill defender. I think Baun, Harrison, and Wilson are better linebackers for the NFL right now but they don't have the projection that Murray and Queen have IF they can put it together, especially in coverage, and they don't have the athleticism. Overall, I think its a question of if the guys are coachable and if they have the intelligence, and then you go from there. You aren't touching what they already do well with anyone in this class and those are things elite players do and traits they show. Wilson remains my favorite overall linebacker in this draft. I think he can be pretty special with some NFL coaching. That said, there's a reason Murray and Queen are considered the top guys and it's not entirely because of what they already do.
Posts: 14,012

04-18-2020, 02:55 PM	#7
Rain Man Seize life. Be an ermine. Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $-452449 VARSITY	I was reading some stuff about Murray the other day that gave me pause. It was stuff about how he has no experience in coverage and had an implication that he'd have a learning curve to fit into a system, that his college system was built around him doing what he wanted and other players adjusting. It concerned me a bit that he wouldn't be a mental fit for an Andy team. Can someone rebut this? I don't watch college football so I merely believe what I read. __________________ Active fan of the greatest team in NFL history.
Posts: 145,252