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Old 08-02-2018, 09:00 AM  
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Are We Headed For Vermeil 2.0?
The way Mahomes can sling the ball shows promise for some high scoring offense. That being said, is the defense going to be able to cut it this season?

One thing that bailed out the defense to a degree the last few seasons was that Smith rarely turned the ball over. Even in a 3 & out situation, MVP usually kicked the ball deep enough to control field position.

Mahomes is neither Green nor Smith. I think he will put up the points Green did but obviously is going to have more turnovers than Smith did. Which is okay. But the defense can't be what it has been.

The defense and Bob Sutton are going to have to learn how to help out when those turnovers happen as they are probably going to happen more than they are used too given the nature of Mahomes. We know there are going to be some great passing plays. We also know that gunslingers will usually throw a few more INT's as well trying to make plays happen. Again, that is okay.

The Sutton defense of "bend but don't break" may have to take a page out of the Denver defense and start really getting after the QB and actually shutting down offenses before they get into FG range, etc.

If our defense is anything like has been during the Sutton era, we could be heading toward Vermeil 2.0 where you're going to have to hope 49 points is enough to win.
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Old 08-02-2018, 09:01 AM   #2
O.city O.city is offline
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Well, they brought in a shit load of new starters on D, so I think the front office agrees?
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Old 08-02-2018, 09:02 AM   #3
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Originally Posted by O.city View Post
Well, they brought in a shit load of new starters on D, so I think the front office agrees?
I'm more worried about Sutton more than the players.
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Old 08-02-2018, 09:03 AM   #4
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I'm more worried about Sutton more than the players.
Why?

When he had the players to fit his system his first 3 or so years here, the defense was really good.

So?
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Old 08-02-2018, 09:07 AM   #5
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I thought Pete was just "DC loony." Apparently it carries over into football takes. That's unfortunate. Get well soon!
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Old 08-02-2018, 09:08 AM   #6
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Why?

When he had the players to fit his system his first 3 or so years here, the defense was really good.

So?
Really good? Blew huge lead in the playoff? Twice! 2 of the 4 worst blown leads in the playoffs in the history of football are owned by this guy in a short stint of 4 years.

I'd say we had really 1 decent year of defense from Sutton. And even in that we blew a huge lead in the playoffs.

Sutton's defenses over the last few years have taken on a pattern of playing soft. I am just a bit concerned that in all the defensive issues, the coach of the defense is not being looked at as part of the problem.

We cannot continue playing a 3 man rush, playing CB's 10 yards off on 3rd and medium, consistently giving up 3rd and long and then claiming victory because after a 7 minute drive we held the other team to a FG.

That hasn't really worked well.
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Old 08-02-2018, 09:09 AM   #7
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When I'm pessimistic, I estimate we're entering the era of the Culpepper Vikings or the Stafford Lions.

When I'm cautiously hopeful, I estimate we're entering McNabb 2.0

When I daydream, I daydream we're charting new territory.
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Old 08-02-2018, 09:10 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Really good? Blew huge lead in the playoff? Twice! 2 of the 4 worst blown leads in the playoffs in the history of football are owned by this guy in a short stint of 4 years.

I'd say we had really 1 decent year of defense from Sutton. And even in that we blew a huge lead in the playoffs.

Sutton's defenses over the last few years have taken on a pattern of playing soft. I am just a bit concerned that in all the defensive issues, the coach of the defense is not being looked at as part of the problem.

We cannot continue playing a 3 man rush, playing CB's 10 yards off on 3rd and medium, consistently giving up 3rd and long and then claiming victory because after a 7 minute drive we held the other team to a FG.

That hasn't really worked well.
If we go by the statistics, they've had really good defenses. If we go by Pete's feelings, maybe not.


The 14,15,16 defenses were pretty damn good.
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Old 08-02-2018, 09:10 AM   #9
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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When I'm pessimistic, I estimate we're entering the era of the Culpepper Vikings or the Stafford Lions.

When I'm cautiously hopeful, I estimate we're entering McNabb 2.0

When I daydream, I daydream we're charting new territory.
Let's hope it's this...I think our offense is going to tear shit up. I just would like to see our defense improve.
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Old 08-02-2018, 09:12 AM   #10
Eleazar Eleazar is offline
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Why?

When he had the players to fit his system his first 3 or so years here, the defense was really good.

So?
Because the entire thing is built on the team riding their luck with turnovers, and that doesn't work consistently against great teams.
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Old 08-02-2018, 09:12 AM   #11
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If we go by the statistics, they've had really good defenses. If we go by Pete's feelings, maybe not.


The 14,15,16 defenses were pretty damn good.
Why does the D get to enjoy regular season metrics to get the label of 'pretty damn good,' but the O gets the playoff metrics of a 'complete waste of time and talent?'
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Old 08-02-2018, 09:13 AM   #12
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They gave up 22 points in a playoff game and lost. Gave up 18 to the Steelers at home, lost. 27 on the road in New England. Lost.
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Old 08-02-2018, 09:13 AM   #13
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This is starting to look similar to a TrINT like season.
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Old 08-02-2018, 09:15 AM   #14
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No, it's not Vermiel 2.0

They're actually TRYING to address defensive problems

and the overall talent level is much higher

Will the D be great? No. But it won't be Bartee and Warfield back there either.
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Old 08-02-2018, 09:15 AM   #15
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Because the entire thing is built on the team riding their luck with turnovers, and that doesn't work consistently against great teams.
Actually, it kind of does. Against great teams, unless you have a great defense, it's tough to consistently get stops without turnovers.
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