Passenger flight from Wichita collides with military helicopter in D.C.
 

Well, this is awful.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Reports: Inbound plane from Wichita collides with helicopter near Washington, D.C. airport<a href="https://t.co/4dpNJb8rqT">https://t.co/4dpNJb8rqT</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/kwch12?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#kwch12</a></p>— KWCH 12 News (@KWCH12) <a href="https://twitter.com/KWCH12/status/1884795268253581707?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 30, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Up to around 70 people were involved between the two aircraft.

Damn

Horrible. Praying for those folks’ families…

Video of the crash on Twitter:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-media-max-width="560"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">RAW VIDEO OF THE DCA AIRPLANE CRASH<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BREAKING?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BREAKING</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/lookner?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@lookner</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/flightradar24?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@flightradar24</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/JordanHallWX?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@JordanHallWX</a> <br><br> <a href="https://t.co/gy3axktKAx">pic.twitter.com/gy3axktKAx</a></p>&mdash; Austin Ayers (@AustinAyersTV) <a href="https://twitter.com/AustinAyersTV/status/1884791190224073118?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 30, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I live in Wichita and I am booked on that same flight in March. I dont know anyone with certainty that was on the flight but Wichita is a small
Place. Just tragic and hits a little too close to home.

I stuck the original in DC

https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=356935

I'm friends with several air traffic controllers at LAX and Van Nuys.


This? This doesn't happen in the US normally. It's almost always pilot error and in this case I'm thinking chopper pilot



Loss of separation alone gets people fired fast and that happens at 1000 feet

Awful. Not sure there’s a happy outcome for anyone involved.

I’ll bet a lot of warm and sensitive things will be said over there

There was originally a report that some had been rescued from the water, but that appears to have been bullshit. Guessing there aren't going to be many happy stories out of this.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is so sad.�� <br><br>Man waiting for his wife at Reagan National Airport, who was on board the commercial plane that crashed with Blackhawk, tells local news that she texted him shortly before the crash.<br><br>“I’m just praying that someone is pulling her out of the river right now.”�� <a href="https://t.co/yDamJCoPOd">pic.twitter.com/yDamJCoPOd</a></p>&mdash; Sean (@Xcellent78) <a href="https://twitter.com/Xcellent78/status/1884822295891370471?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 30, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I heard it was a training flight that wasn’t entered into the FAA ledger so the air traffic controllers were out of the loop.

We will all eventually get the truth of what happened.

Reading through the ATC transcript, it's almost certainly the helicopter's fault. They said they had a visual on the regional jet and were told to maintain visual separation. Obviously, they didn't.

Terrorism

Man I just heard that it had members of the US figure skating team on board and family. This is absolutely awful

Man I hope she’s alive. That’s gotta be the worst feeling in the world

No survivors.

27 bodies recovered from the plane so far, 1 from the helicopter

Lord have mercy. How does this happen? I mean, a Helicopter is MUCH more maneuverable than a commercial airliner...this had to be pilot error for the helicopter...

Just awful...

Wrong......:doh!:

I am shocked this hasn't occured before.

I have seen copters nearby takeoffs and landings all the time over my 10.years in the area.

I used to take a water taxi from Alexandria to Georgetown up the Potomac and it would pass Reagan Airport and it was always busy with all types of air traffic.

I used to see a lot of helicopter traffic when I lived in Jacksonville because of the 2 large navy bases there, but they were probably 20-30 miles from the commercial airport. Obviously DC is a different situation with everything that is there. With all that traffic there with different types of aircraft, it’s surprising that something like this hasn’t happened before.

****ing Christ

Unfortunately, a lot of the US Skating Team and coaches and family were on the plane. Horrible.

Absolutely awful. :(

Photos show it came apart in mid-air. Prayers to those impacted by this tragedy.

I work right across the river from Reagan National. The Coast Guard is running constant sorties out of National (Jayhawks), you've got blackhawks tooling up and down the river doing god knows what, you've got VIP's flying in State Department helicopters at all hours of the day...But the worst from my experience are these Blackhawks. It's like Vietnam over the Potomac sometimes.

Happens all the time! / Frankie

I know it would be expensive, but maybe it's time to begin to shut down commercial flights into Reagan, transition to just government and military air space.

Dulles and Baltimore would need to be expanded, and maybe another airport in either Northern Virgina or Maryland. The metro now goes out directly to Dulles. It couldn't happen all at once, but that traffic around the Potomac is crazy and their is only ONE runway where heavies can land.

:deevee:

Why does our media think its a good idea to stuff a camera and microphone in front of a person experiencing the worst moment in their lives? Nobody needs to see that shit.

Anyone else thinks it's incredibly tacky for the reporter to ask a terrified family member to see their phone to confirm the text message? What kind of normal person thinks thats a good idea.

This whole ordeal is just incredibly sad and scary. Plane travel is still easily the safest form of transport but when its been so long since we've had an incident in the US this is a sobering reminder that accidents happen.

I've only flown into / out of Reagan once, all my other trips out there have been into Dulles / BWI, but I was astonished to see all of the non-commercial flying going on around it.

For the clicks and attention

You are probably right, but man, it's so much more convenient flying into Reagan.

Yeah I'm not watching that interview

What a terrible tragedy

I use that flight a lot from Wichita because it’s easy to get into Baltimore from DCA. Prayers to these families. I’ve been spending my time tracking down people I know that take that route. Tragic.

This x infinity.

My wife's cousin was originally supposed to be on that flight but she ended up changing flights to go back home (North Dakota) for a few days and grabbed a flight out of Grand Forks instead.

Clicks clicks and more clicks Most media gave up on any kind of actual reporting because half (or more) of the population doesn't have the attention span for it anymore.

Continuing to read through discussions about this from people who actually know the aviation industry, it seems like the most likely explanation is that the black hawk said they had the CRJ in sight, but they were looking at the wrong plane.

It's hard as a civilian to understand how that can happen, and I have to imagine they're going to take a long look at standard practices in that area to ensure this can't happen again. Even if it's technically pilot error, there shouldn't be a situation where looking at the wrong lights in the dark ends up killing 70 people.

Just terrible.

Apparently 1/3rd of the people on the flight were figure skaters or people in that circle. The US figure skating championships were just in Wichita a few days ago.

There are systems already in place where multiple things have to go wrong for anything to happen which is why nothing had happened in 16 years of constant flights all over the country. In short, there won't be one thing that went wrong it's a failure across multiple things.

I guarantee that if I was ever in that position and one of those shitheads stuck a mic in my face, my answer would be about as far from cordial as you could get.

I've often wondered why more people don't just tell them to **** off.

It's extremely difficult to pick up a helo in the dark. And the slower the helo is moving, the harder it is to spot them. plus, CRJs don't have the greatest visuals anyway. Not as bad as a Metro, but not a lot better either.


Terrible tragedy.

From a professional helicopter pilot I know from another forum.

They've got to ground these morons. Keep them and other "VIPs" from flying prehistoric choppers near a busy commercial airport hub. Jesus.

It probably happens more often then we get to see... they just don't show those interactions.

They still talk to clearance, ground, tower, and departure. ESPECIALLY around DC.


DC is the most controlled airspace in the world.

The Swiss cheese holes lined up.

Military aircraft avionics are complete shit compared to most civilian aircraft.

I was hanging out in the Amarillo FBO some F-16s pulled up and parked.

I don't ever pass up the chance to talk to the baddest ass mother ****ers on the planet so we chatted about stuff. I was flying a low tail Piper Lance (a very nice one) and they asked me about it. Had dual Garmin 430's in it which was sensational back in 2002. I took them out to show them and they were blown away at how nice the dash was. One guy said he would kill to have one moving map GPS in his plane. They had a light indicator that verified via GPS receiver that LORAN was accurate.

That blew me away. 25 million dollar airplane. I hope things have changed.

Looks like the ATC was working two different areas, simultaneously ... Yikes.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/staffing-...ion-faa-report

This is a nothing nonsense inflammatory story. This happens all the time, everywhere.


That would actually HELP the situation, not hinder it.

Good to know. Not passing judgement, just going to follow what the NTSB investigation uncovers

Just pointing it out mostly because the article makes it sound like one person running both is overloading the ATC guy but actually coordinating everything with one person has less room for error than two. Communication is essential when there are two.

Sounds like the onus is completely on the Blackhawk to maintain "visual separation".

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/hfgllf1L9_4?si=L_gw0s_qz-sWB_DQ" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If the Blackhawk had ADS-B out the plane would have known exactly where he was and probably would have been all over it.

The situational awareness that system provides is amazing.

Rerunkc should give us the skinny

Edited to put the video in spoiler tags. There is something about seeing in detail the moment that 60+ people lose their lives that I feel needs a warning. Watch at your own risk. -Dartgod

Jesus.

Damn talk about a head on

After watching that video I don't want to here shit about understaffed air traffic controller's...That was one of the worst ****ing video's I've ever seen in my life. How do you not see a commercial jet, lit up like a football stadium, barreling down at your position?

I understand a passenger jet can’t maneuver like the Blackhawk. But, it looks from this video that the Blackhawk never attempted to avoid the aircraft. Even at the last minute.

The voice transponders have been collected. It'll be interesting to find out what sort of info they unearth from that.

Yeah, those lights are bright to look at miles out, much less a thousand feet or less.

Statement from the Sec Def said they were wearing NVG’s.

Damn.

Almost looks like the helicopter pilot did it intentionally…

Here's the link on CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/31/us/vi...deo-ldn-digvid

Why was someone filming that?

I used to wonder about these things myself, but then I quickly realized that people are constantly videoing the most inane things all day, everyday. So, this doesn't really surprise me that someone caught this on video.

Things happen fast when it's two vehicles moving at 150+ mph, in the dark, with lots of other lights around and massive blind spots, all while trying to listen in and follow instructions on crowded radio channels.

Military Technology generally lags civilian technology by several years.
For example, when I joined the Army in '88 the HAWK system I would work on was still using vacuum tubes in the PAR, or Pulsing Acquisition Radar.

Happens all the time. especially in the dark. And how well lit up the aircraft is dependent on the angle at which you're viewing it (head-on and you're looking into a giant landing light, but from the side or behind it's just recog/nav/logo lights). And the CRJ was necessarily moving at 200+, while the helo was moving at some fraction of that. Depending on the actual angle of intercept, altitude difference, etc. there may not have been a lot of angular change/movement across the field of view, which would make spotting each other more difficult.

Bottom line, it's almost impossible to really understand the spatial relationships between these aircraft from just the video. We need the radar tape at the very least. Another video from a different angle would also be helpful.

That's wild! I always thought it was the opposite. I guess that's just in the movies.

From what I heard on a podcast this morning from someone who talked with several experienced ATC's -

The Blackhawk never saw the plane as it was above them at the time. You cant look up in a Blackhawk helicopter as you cant see through the roof.

It also appears the ATC asked if they could see the plane, well the only plane the Blackhawk could have seen was the one taking off not the one above them. When the Blackhawk said yes they could see the plane the ATC should have known they were seeing the wrong plane as they cant physically see one that is above them.

The ATC is almost certainly at fault here. Should have told the Blackhawk to drop to 1500ft.

Also there is supposed to be an ATC handling Helicopters and another handling fixed wing but the same guy was doing both.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">How is it possible the Blackhawk pilots did not see the AA jet.<a href="https://t.co/EAe4Q0j2y9">pic.twitter.com/EAe4Q0j2y9</a></p>&mdash; Citizen Free Press (@CitizenFreePres) <a href="https://twitter.com/CitizenFreePres/status/1885414739578147018?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 31, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That barrel roll is absolutely brutal. I also heard on the radio earlier it was relatively easy to recover most of the passengers because they were still strapped in their seatbelts. :(

The rules must have changed because hen I was ATC we even did planes, copters and even Drones but I was military so might be the difference.That and been a long time.

And, likewise, you can't see below a jet very well either, so it's pretty likely that neither aircraft saw the other.

I'd be surprised if there was a true error on the ATC side, as it sounds like the flight rules in the area allow for visual separation. The ATC pointed out the heading of the CRJ, and the Black Hawk pilot confirmed that they had a visual on it. That very probably seems like a miscommunication and mistake on the pilot's part. All that said, I think it's a very valid question if the flight rules in the area should be reconsidered.

All that said, others have alluded to the "swiss cheese" metaphor, and it's very likely that it applies here. Some level of fault lies with:
-BH flying "dark" and, therefore, not visible on CRJ's equipment
-Short-staffed ATC having one person working multiple roles, which isn't unusual but might need to be considered due to the complexity of this airspace
-ATC not understanding that the BH couldn't actually have a visual on the CRJ (assuming that's true)
-Rules that allow helicopters to fly directly into the descent path at all
-Rules that allow for visual separation in the area
-Simple BH pilot error

Time will tell what they conclude in the investigation, but it sure seems like this is iffy enough that they should change how things operate in the area.

Probably a combination of those thigs listed which is almost always the case.

The staffing issue seems to be pretty glaring to me though. That's WHY the ATC exist, to keep this shit from happening.

Rarely will the NTSB/FAA find that an accident was the result of just one mistake. It usually is a domino effect of several mistakes. They will usually find that one aircrew/group was mostly responsible. Until we have a lot more information, we're all just guessing.

Laughable to claim the pilot couldn't see the plane after watching that video. Especially considering <a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2025/01/31/dc-plane-crash-helicopter-airport-updates/">they were flying well above their 200ft ceiling.</a>

You would be surprised at how often pilots can't pick up other aircraft, or to be more precise, the exact aircraft ATC is warning you about.

I don't think any of us here have anywhere near the expertise to definitively conclude anything about what they could or couldn't see. I just know that other incidents that outsiders would conclude should have been easily avoided are less so once they really look at the factors at play. It's obviously not the same situation, but an A350 collided with a coast guard plane on the runway in Japan a year ago. People have asked how it's possible that the A350 wouldn't have seen the coast guard plane sitting on the runway, which seems logical until they actually mocked up what it would look like to the pilots...

https://i.imgur.com/IIXO6yB.png

(Note the slight break in the centerline about halfway down the runway. That's what they estimate the coast guard plane looked like to the A350 pilots.)

This is why investigations are important. We can guess all we want, but until they carefully study everything that happened, we don't really know where the fault lies.