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staylor26 02-16-2023 10:24 AM

First Round Targets
 
OT:

Anton Harrison, OT, Oklahoma
Darnell Wright, Tennessee

WR:

Quentin Johnston, TCU
Jalin Hyatt, Tennessee
Jordan Addison, USC
Zay Flowers, Boston College

EDGE:

Keion White, Georgia Tech
Felix Anudike-Uzomah, Kansas St.
Will McDonald IV, Iowa St.
B.J. Ojulari, LSU

DT:

Mazi Smith, Michigan




As it stands right now, feel pretty confident that our first round pick will be one of these guys.

Dante84 02-16-2023 11:20 AM

Can you imagine this monster next to Trey Smith?

https://steelersdepot.com/wp-content...wandJones1.jpg

kozzman555 02-16-2023 11:28 AM

Yall are forgetting Veach doesn't like drafting older players. I don't see Keion White being high on our board since he's already 24.

mkp785 02-16-2023 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante84 (Post 16813974)
Can you imagine this monster next to Trey Smith?

https://steelersdepot.com/wp-content...wandJones1.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/V0CsJI8.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/GS4dNAC.jpg

Might fit our offense and what we ask out of our LTs better, but I'm fine with either.

I'll be very interested in the LTs during the combine in a week or 2....

staylor26 02-16-2023 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kozzman555 (Post 16813995)
Yall are forgetting Veach doesn't like drafting older players. I don't see Keion White being high on our board since he's already 24.

I get that, and it's a legitimate concern, but he's also the type of EDGE rusher that Veach and Spags love. He's everything Veach wished Speaks would be.

staylor26 02-16-2023 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkp785 (Post 16814028)
https://i.imgur.com/V0CsJI8.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/GS4dNAC.jpg

Might fit our offense and what we ask out of our LTs better, but I'm fine with either.

I'll be very interested in the LTs during the combine in a week or 2....

Anton was one of the few guys that I almost put on the list but didn't.

kozzman555 02-16-2023 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16814034)
I get that, and it's a legitimate concern, but he's also the type of EDGE rusher that Veach and Spags love. He's everything Veach wished Speaks would be.

You're right but he also has two more years of wear and tear on his body. Veach has consistently drafted younger players and there are others in the draft like Foskey, Hall and Harrison that are close to what Slags likes and may not require a 1st to get them. I'd be shocked if we take him White.

I'm curious, what's the age of the oldest player Veach has drafted so far?

mkp785 02-16-2023 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16814036)
Anton was one of the few guys that I almost put on the list but didn't.

He's getting low key Trent Williams comps from some draft sites....

I'm almost positive that he's gonna be a star of the combine and outright leaping Paris while maybe even pushing Stokanski for #1 guy after pro days. His profile seems to match what we ask our guys to do. With the pass becoming a bigger and bigger component, he's primed to go high.

He's a more natural fit then OBJ and is going to be WAY cheaper.

The Franchise 02-16-2023 12:06 PM

If they bring back OBJ...then the need to draft a LT isn't high. Sure you could grab a RT at the end of the 1st round but you can also move that down to the 2nd round if you need to spend that 1st round pick on a WR or DE.

O.city 02-16-2023 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise (Post 16814106)
If they bring back OBJ...then the need to draft a LT isn't high. Sure you could grab a RT at the end of the 1st round but you can also move that down to the 2nd round if you need to spend that 1st round pick on a WR or DE.

Yeah, if OBJ is back I'd wait on a T.

Get the kid from BYU in the 2nd and develop him

Couch-Potato 02-16-2023 12:18 PM

Anton Harrison is the name that stood out to me at first that should be on the list. I'd probably also add Bryan Breese and Tuli Tuipulotu to the list as well, and others might be in favor of adding Andre Carter. Tuli can play the edge, rumor is Carter didn't look to good at the Sr Bowl so he's been dropping into the 2nd, and Breese falls in like 1/4th of recent mocks.

staylor26 02-16-2023 12:28 PM

Yea, this list will change based on what happens with certain guys like OBJ, but even if they re-sign him, I think Wright and Jones will remain because they could just be BPA, and they're plug and play at RT.

I do agree that I'd prefer EDGE or WR in that scenario though.

O.city 02-16-2023 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16814157)
Yea, this list will change based on what happens with certain guys like OBJ, but even if they re-sign him, I think Wright and Jones will remain because they could just be BPA, and they're plug and play at RT.

I do agree that I'd prefer EDGE or WR in that scenario though.

I think I'd rather have an edge, but.....shit Darnell Wright seems like an absolute slam dunk RT. Like he's really really good.

staylor26 02-16-2023 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato (Post 16814138)
Anton Harrison is the name that stood out to me at first that should be on the list. I'd probably also add Bryan Breese and Tuli Tuipulotu to the list as well, and others might be in favor of adding Andre Carter. Tuli can play the edge, rumor is Carter didn't look to good at the Sr Bowl so he's been dropping into the 2nd, and Breese falls in like 1/4th of recent mocks.

Bresee isn't on the list because I don't think he will be there.

Tuipulotu is another guy like Harrison that just missed the cut, but only because I don't know if he's a RDE in this system. Love the prospect though.

staylor26 02-16-2023 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 16814164)
I think I'd rather have an edge, but.....shit Darnell Wright seems like an absolute slam dunk RT. Like he's really really good.

It's tempting. Could give the Eagles OL a run for their money with him.

O.city 02-16-2023 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16814168)
It's tempting. Could give the Eagles OL a run for their money with him.

I think there's a scenario where you take him in round 1 and trade up in 2 for a pass rusher like Hall or Ojulari

My preferred situation is to take the best front 7 player on the board in the first, the best WR in the 2nd and trade our 3rd that would be conditional to the Commanders for Chase Young.

staylor26 02-16-2023 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 16814173)
I think there's a scenario where you take him in round 1 and trade up in 2 for a pass rusher like Hall or Ojulari

My preferred situation is to take the best front 7 player on the board in the first, the best WR in the 2nd and trade our 3rd that would be conditional to the Commanders for Chase Young.

I have a hard time buying that a 3rd gets it done with Young, but sign me up.

I'd also be very happy with that first scenario. Wright and Ojulari/Hall would be fantastic.

Then you can double dip at WR.

O.city 02-16-2023 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16814179)
I have a hard time buying that a 3rd gets it done with Young, but sign me up.

I'd also be very happy with that first scenario. Wright and Ojulari/Hall would be fantastic.

Then you can double dip at WR.

You'd have to make it a conditional I'd imagine, maybe add a 4th.

Having Young/Ojulari paired with Karlaftis would be really fun.

O.city 02-16-2023 12:42 PM

The tight end from ND has to be on here simply because if he's there you have to take him from a BPA spot right?

staylor26 02-16-2023 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 16814190)
The tight end from ND has to be on here simply because if he's there you have to take him from a BPA spot right?

I considered listing him and the other 2 top TEs just because this class is so ****ing good. If the Chiefs fill some holes before the draft, Mayer at least will be added.

The Franchise 02-16-2023 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 16814190)
The tight end from ND has to be on here simply because if he's there you have to take him from a BPA spot right?

Don’t you do that to me.

O.city 02-16-2023 12:49 PM

I like the TE's behind Kelce alot, but yeah if you can add that it seems like a no brainer.

I'm kinda wondering if they end up going with Niang at RT.

staylor26 02-16-2023 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 16814200)
I like the TE's behind Kelce alot, but yeah if you can add that it seems like a no brainer.

I'm kinda wondering if they end up going with Niang at RT.

It's definitely a possibility. They have 2 young guys in him and Tega-Wanogho that they could feel good about. It's not like Wylie is THAT much better than those guys either.

If they think Niang is the guy at RT, and they're comfortable with Tega-Wanogho backing him up, that would really open things up. That's a perfect example of something that would allow the Chiefs to take Mayer.

mkp785 02-16-2023 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 16814185)
You'd have to make it a conditional I'd imagine, maybe add a 4th.

Having Young/Ojulari paired with Karlaftis would be really fun.

Dude, I love your optimism. I really, really do.

That said, Chase Young was a force of nature 1 yr ago...we're not getting him for conditional 3rd and a fourth. Unless that condition is we trade them multiple 1sts if he plays like we all know he could. They have no reason to cut bait on the guy who was probably their most popular player as well as 1 of the best defenders in the league as a rookie this quickly. Players come back from his injury nowadays.

Payne, is the guy on the (former) Skins that we can get. He's a FA and they have a couple guys on that line that need to get paid-like Chase. We can probably get Payne if we want, though I'd just pay Jones and find a bigger guy like Payne in the draft.

It was mentioned earlier but I'd love to have Andre Carter in here at edge. Military so we know he's got discipline and he's got some athletic ability and size. Give me him and Harrison and I don't really care what else we get in the draft quite frankly.

jjchieffan 02-16-2023 01:17 PM

Picked this up from a mock draft. Would you do this trade up and pick?

Kansas City Chiefs (from TB)* | TCU WR Quentin Johnston

After watching this year’s top corners come off the board ahead of them, the Bucs could be willing to bail from this pick. With no receivers gone yet, the Chiefs deal their second-round pick to jump up from the last pick in the first round for Johnston, who has the traits to be a superstar in this explosive offense with Patrick Mahomes.

Direckshun 02-16-2023 01:18 PM

Color coding:

That would be amazing.
That would be solid.
Meh.
Ugh.


Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16813855)
OT:

Broderick Jones, Georgia
Darnell Wright, Tennessee

Dawand Jones, Ohio St.


WR:

Jalin Hyatt, Tennessee
Jordan Addison, USC
Jaxon Smith-Njigba, Ohio St.

Zay Flowers, Boston College


EDGE:

Lukas Van Ness, Iowa
BJ Ojulari, LSU
Keion White, Georgia Tech
Will McDonald IV, Iowa St.
Derick Hall, Auburn


As it stands right now, feel pretty confident that our first round pick will be one of these guys.

The reason Reid/Bienemy and Spags are able to craft flexible gameplans is because the roster is flexible. You don't have a ton of guys that all do the same thing and have the same weaknesses.

Dawand Jones is a downgraded version of Orlando Jones. You likely don't want the exact same tackle with the exact same weakness on both sides. Aside from the fact that, Brown excepted, he just isn't the kind of tackle Reid/Bienemy have ever wanted.

Van Ness should be a good enough player in the league, but he's basically a downgraded version of Karlaftis. We already have that guy; what the Chiefs need is a pure athletic rusher, even if that means you give up a bit on the "Spags DE" purity. You need a guy who can threaten tackles' outside shoulders every single snap, and the other guys on your list have that ability.

Edit: sorry for the font coloring, clearly didn't work on all the colors lol

Direckshun 02-16-2023 01:26 PM

Who I think the Chiefs are targeting right now, at #31 (with some flexibility to trade up if they want):

WR Jordan Addison, USC (trade up?)
WR Kayshon Boutte, LSU
WR Rashee Rice, SMU
WR Tyler Scott, Cincinnati
OT Broderick Jones, Georgia (trade up?)
OT Anton Harrison, Oklahoma (trade up?)
OT Darnell Wright, Tennessee
DT Gervon Dexter, Florida
DT Calijah Kancey, Pittsburgh (if Jones is not extended)
DE Andre Carter II, Army
DE BJ Ojulari, LSU
S Antonio Johnson, Texas A&M

Arranged in order of the Chiefs' preference, if I had to guess:

1. WR Jordan Addison, USC
2. OT Broderick Jones, Georgia
3. OT Anton Harrison, Oklahoma
4. DE Andre Carter II, Army
5. WR Kayshon Boutte, LSU
6. WR Tyler Scott, Cincinnati
7. DE BJ Ojulari, LSU
8. WR Rashee Rice, SMU
9. S Antonio Johnson, Texas A&M
10. OT Darnell Wright, Tennessee
11. DT Gervon Dexter, Florida

Depends on Chris Jones: DT Calijah Kancey, Pittsburgh

O.city 02-16-2023 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkp785 (Post 16814235)
Dude, I love your optimism. I really, really do.

That said, Chase Young was a force of nature 1 yr ago...we're not getting him for conditional 3rd and a fourth. Unless that condition is we trade them multiple 1sts if he plays like we all know he could. They have no reason to cut bait on the guy who was probably their most popular player as well as 1 of the best defenders in the league as a rookie this quickly. Players come back from his injury nowadays.

Payne, is the guy on the (former) Skins that we can get. He's a FA and they have a couple guys on that line that need to get paid-like Chase. We can probably get Payne if we want, though I'd just pay Jones and find a bigger guy like Payne in the draft.

It was mentioned earlier but I'd love to have Andre Carter in here at edge. Military so we know he's got discipline and he's got some athletic ability and size. Give me him and Harrison and I don't really care what else we get in the draft quite frankly.

The Commanders didn't pick up his fifth year option, so he's going into his last year of his rookie deal. Usually, that means they aren't keeping the guy around.

mkp785 02-16-2023 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 16814323)
The Commanders didn't pick up his fifth year option, so he's going into his last year of his rookie deal. Usually, that means they aren't keeping the guy around.

I don't think that's official yet though it is like 18M so I see their hesitation. Still don't think we could get him that cheap. Why wouldn't they gamble then franchise him if he blows up?

You draft a dude 2nd overall and he blows up, then has an injury and you cut bait and he blows back up? Disaster.

Skins are also in the process of selling. They someone to be the face of that team. Carson Wentz ain't selling jerseys.

milkshock 02-16-2023 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 16814273)
Who I think the Chiefs are targeting right now, at #31 (with some flexibility to trade up if they want):

WR Jordan Addison, USC (trade up?)
WR Kayshon Boutte, LSU
WR Rashee Rice, SMU
WR Tyler Scott, Cincinnati
OT Broderick Jones, Georgia (trade up?)
OT Anton Harrison, Oklahoma (trade up?)
OT Darnell Wright, Tennessee
DT Gervon Dexter, Florida
DT Calijah Kancey, Pittsburgh (if Jones is not extended)
DE Andre Carter II, Army
DE BJ Ojulari, LSU
S Antonio Johnson, Texas A&M

Arranged in order of the Chiefs' preference, if I had to guess:

1. WR Jordan Addison, USC
2. OT Broderick Jones, Georgia
3. OT Anton Harrison, Oklahoma
4. DE Andre Carter II, Army
5. WR Kayshon Boutte, LSU
6. WR Tyler Scott, Cincinnati
7. DE BJ Ojulari, LSU
8. WR Rashee Rice, SMU
9. S Antonio Johnson, Texas A&M
10. OT Darnell Wright, Tennessee
11. DT Gervon Dexter, Florida

Depends on Chris Jones: DT Calijah Kancey, Pittsburgh


Would go big and trade up for Addison. Set us up multiple cheap years with him as a no.1 WR if he is what we think he is


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Chieftain 02-16-2023 03:50 PM

The Chiefs desperately need an edge rusher opposite of Karlaftis that is team controlled for the next 8 years (rookie contract, 5th year option, 3 franchise tags). A guy like Ojulari is intriguing.
I doubt any of the top 3 receivers will be available at the end of the round. I am against the idea of trading for one.
I don't like drating an O lineman this early unless it's a must have prospect. We can easily tag Orlando and give Wiley a two year extension.
Edge is an essential need and why pay for one in free agency when we can repeat what we did in last year's draft? Frank is a fill-in at this point. Can't rely on him for the entirety of a season. Shoring up the defensive line should be top priority. Draft the best DT if he is there.

Couch-Potato 02-16-2023 06:25 PM

hmmm starting to wonder if we don't go WR, I don't love any of the edge rushers this year at our spot bc they're not fast or bendy enough, and there's enough talent at the WR position that it looks like a quality option will be there for us at 31... One less pick and QBs at the top of he draft pushing WR talent down further.

1. Jalin Hyatt, Tennessee
2. Jordan Addison, USC
3. Jaxon Smith-Njigba, Ohio St.
4. Zay Flowers, Boston College
5. 5th option depends on who you ask: Dell, Downs, Boute, etc...

JPH83 02-17-2023 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato (Post 16814820)
hmmm starting to wonder if we don't go WR, I don't love any of the edge rushers this year at our spot bc they're not fast or bendy enough, and there's enough talent at the WR position that it looks like a quality option will be there for us at 31... One less pick and QBs at the top of he draft pushing WR talent down further.

1. Jalin Hyatt, Tennessee
2. Jordan Addison, USC
3. Jaxon Smith-Njigba, Ohio St.
4. Zay Flowers, Boston College
5. 5th option depends on who you ask: Dell, Downs, Boute, etc...

I think it's a much better draft for DEs than WRs, although I agree there's fewer speedy options. I think there's a better chance that a guy like Will McDonald is there than a decent WR.

Dull Tools 02-17-2023 03:43 AM

I saw a mock today which had us picking a TE in Luke Musgrave.

I hadn't considered it before but it actually makes a bit of sense given how much we are using 2 or 3 tight end sets.

If it is a more pass catching TE it also fills the gap at WR to an extent too.

The thought of having 2 elite TEs along with Toney and Skyy Moore in the red zone is a very exciting prospect.

I still think OT and DE are more needed but just thought it was an interesting thought.

kccrow 02-17-2023 05:42 AM

After much study and thought, I'm going to be really bullish about us not having a chance at either Johnston or Hyatt.

And you're going to have to also count on the fact that the highest we can get with this and next year's first is 16. And that might be overvaluing next year's pick slightly. The real spot might be 18. It really depends on how willing a team is just to acquire more draft capital.

I just don't think we can get there without it costing a fortune that I just don't think is worth spending for this team. And that's what I think you'll have to do to net those guys.

Now, if there's a guy there at 21 or later that you want then I think you can get there with a future 2nd and this year's 4th. I don't think Johnston and Hyatt are those guys. Are you willing to chance Jaxon Smith-Njigba at that point? I'm not willing to go up for Addison over just taking Tyler Scott myself.

I think the focus should be on options we can get that can provide a similar impact. I'm fully on board with moving up substantially in the 2nd round by using a future 2nd. You might be able to get as high as 43 but probably no less than 48.

Either way, if you go with the flashy option in round 1 you still need to address RT, DE, and DT in this draft. You can't do that well if you start moving picks in this year's draft on day 2 to go get the flashy option; and, mortgaging future 1's eventually comes back to bite you in the ass.

O.city 02-17-2023 09:22 AM

Yeah, I'm not trading up. If anyone wants to come up for a QB in the frist for the 5th year, I'd gladly go down a few spots for an extra 3rd.

They need to just keep piling on talent.

Direckshun 02-17-2023 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkshock (Post 16814441)
Would go big and trade up for Addison. Set us up multiple cheap years with him as a no.1 WR if he is what we think he is

The Chiefs really want a premier WR. We all know they were willing to trade up for one last year but couldn't get the deal done.

It's a very real possibility that they go get one (unless OBJ contract talks fall through).

Keep in mind, whether we have 11 or 12 picks, the Chiefs simply don't have 11 or 12 roster spots open. They're going to package and move up, probably more than once.

With that in mind, I'd desperately love for the Chiefs to go get a passrusher.

But this is Veach. And Veach is legit amazing, but he cares about one thing and one thing only: how can I surround Mahomes with the most talent possible.

Direckshun 02-17-2023 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato (Post 16814820)
hmmm starting to wonder if we don't go WR, I don't love any of the edge rushers this year at our spot bc they're not fast or bendy enough, and there's enough talent at the WR position that it looks like a quality option will be there for us at 31... One less pick and QBs at the top of he draft pushing WR talent down further.

1. Jalin Hyatt, Tennessee
2. Jordan Addison, USC
3. Jaxon Smith-Njigba, Ohio St.
4. Zay Flowers, Boston College
5. 5th option depends on who you ask: Dell, Downs, Boute, etc...

I would bet on this, personally, unless the Brown negotiations turn south.

Direckshun 02-17-2023 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 16815338)
After much study and thought, I'm going to be really bullish about us not having a chance at either Johnston or Hyatt.

And you're going to have to also count on the fact that the highest we can get with this and next year's first is 16. And that might be overvaluing next year's pick slightly. The real spot might be 18. It really depends on how willing a team is just to acquire more draft capital.

I just don't think we can get there without it costing a fortune that I just don't think is worth spending for this team. And that's what I think you'll have to do to net those guys.

Now, if there's a guy there at 21 or later that you want then I think you can get there with a future 2nd and this year's 4th. I don't think Johnston and Hyatt are those guys. Are you willing to chance Jaxon Smith-Njigba at that point? I'm not willing to go up for Addison over just taking Tyler Scott myself.

I think the focus should be on options we can get that can provide a similar impact. I'm fully on board with moving up substantially in the 2nd round by using a future 2nd. You might be able to get as high as 43 but probably no less than 48.

Either way, if you go with the flashy option in round 1 you still need to address RT, DE, and DT in this draft. You can't do that well if you start moving picks in this year's draft on day 2 to go get the flashy option; and, mortgaging future 1's eventually comes back to bite you in the ass.

kccrow and I are higher on Tyler Scott than seemingly the entire universe, but I'm telling you, this guy at 31 will pay out.

JPH83 02-17-2023 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 16815338)
After much study and thought, I'm going to be really bullish about us not having a chance at either Johnston or Hyatt.

And you're going to have to also count on the fact that the highest we can get with this and next year's first is 16. And that might be overvaluing next year's pick slightly. The real spot might be 18. It really depends on how willing a team is just to acquire more draft capital.

I just don't think we can get there without it costing a fortune that I just don't think is worth spending for this team. And that's what I think you'll have to do to net those guys.

Now, if there's a guy there at 21 or later that you want then I think you can get there with a future 2nd and this year's 4th. I don't think Johnston and Hyatt are those guys. Are you willing to chance Jaxon Smith-Njigba at that point? I'm not willing to go up for Addison over just taking Tyler Scott myself.

I think the focus should be on options we can get that can provide a similar impact. I'm fully on board with moving up substantially in the 2nd round by using a future 2nd. You might be able to get as high as 43 but probably no less than 48.

Either way, if you go with the flashy option in round 1 you still need to address RT, DE, and DT in this draft. You can't do that well if you start moving picks in this year's draft on day 2 to go get the flashy option; and, mortgaging future 1's eventually comes back to bite you in the ass.

I'm honestly just not convinced in the guys we COULD go up for. I don't think guys like Hyatt and Addison are anywhere near the talent we've had in recent years at that sort of position. Maybe I'm overestimating previous years but I feel like a top 18 pick WR should be close to being a "do-it-all" WR1 that really works in any scheme. Not convinced that's the case with these guys. I'm WAY lower on Hyatt than most here. I have zero doubt he'd be lethal with Reid cooking up plays, but I think there's a lot of unanswered Qs to assume he's a WR1 type.

I kinda feel the same way about DE. But similar to you I think we COULD gain value moving up in the 2nd. I think 31 and a higher 2nd maybe doesn't get you blue chip guys, but it should get you a DE and WR with particular skillsets we need, and who can therefore make an impact early.

Couch-Potato 02-17-2023 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPH83 (Post 16816003)
I'm honestly just not convinced in the guys we COULD go up for. I don't think guys like Hyatt and Addison are anywhere near the talent we've had in recent years at that sort of position. Maybe I'm overestimating previous years but I feel like a top 18 pick WR should be close to being a "do-it-all" WR1 that really works in any scheme. Not convinced that's the case with these guys. I'm WAY lower on Hyatt than most here. I have zero doubt he'd be lethal with Reid cooking up plays, but I think there's a lot of unanswered Qs to assume he's a WR1 type.

I kinda feel the same way about DE. But similar to you I think we COULD gain value moving up in the 2nd. I think 31 and a higher 2nd maybe doesn't get you blue chip guys, but it should get you a DE and WR with particular skillsets we need, and who can therefore make an impact early.

So you like a repeat of last year. Stand pat and a DE will drop to us, and move around in the 2nd for a WR. Who you targeting with those picks and what you giving up to move up in the 2nd?

JPH83 02-17-2023 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato (Post 16816166)
So you like a repeat of last year. Stand pat and a DE will drop to us, and move around in the 2nd for a WR. Who you targeting with those picks and what you giving up to move up in the 2nd?

Yeah i guess that's right. I think we might get Will McDonald at DE at 31. We sure as hell won't take him I'd bet, and I can see the arguments against. But he's going to be the speed guy I'm after, plus he's like a poor man's Nolan Smith - undersized but surprisingly good against the run. Moving up for a WR I'm less certain but I could see someone like Boutte being available around 50, especially if he's completely off guys like Brugler's radar. Basically I'm looking for whoever is left with the highest ceiling, forget floor. That'd probably be my 1-2.

JPH83 02-17-2023 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 16815664)
kccrow and I are higher on Tyler Scott than seemingly the entire universe, but I'm telling you, this guy at 31 will pay out.

Isn't he a little small for R1? Would imagine he ends up a slot no? Or am I getting him mixed up?

Direckshun 02-17-2023 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPH83 (Post 16816389)
Isn't he a little small for R1? Would imagine he ends up a slot no? Or am I getting him mixed up?

Sure he's small -- but he runs a 4.2 and is a hell of a receiver.

Under Andy Reid, he's a Pro Bowler by Year 3, and maybe sooner.

kccrow 02-17-2023 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPH83 (Post 16816389)
Isn't he a little small for R1? Would imagine he ends up a slot no? Or am I getting him mixed up?


He's like 5'10" or 5'11" and 180-185 so I don't think so. No smaller than Jaylen Waddle, Marquise Brown, or Jahan Dotson and they all went round 1. He also played outside alot for Cincy.

Are you thinking of Tank Dell?

Chieftain 02-17-2023 05:42 PM

Tyler Scott looks like a toothpick. I need my receiver to have a thick frame, a bulky guy who doesn't break down during a long season.

Couch-Potato 02-17-2023 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chieftain (Post 16816593)
Tyler Scott looks like a toothpick. I need my receiver to have a thick frame, a bulky guy who doesn't break down during a long season.

Dell is even smaller.

Chris Meck 02-17-2023 07:58 PM

Well, I mean, I don't know because some of these guys are anywhere from first rounders to fourth rounders depending on the mock.

I mean, what the hell. I have no idea what to think.

I imagine after the combine this will settle down?

Shoes 02-18-2023 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 16815664)
kccrow and I are higher on Tyler Scott than seemingly the entire universe, but I'm telling you, this guy at 31 will pay out.

If Tyler Scott is your guy you trade down, absolutely no reason to take him at 31. I like him as a prospect, for a smaller(ish) guy, his athleticism is off the charts and he is freaky strong (600 lbs squat, 16 reps of bench at 225).

I just have a hard time putting Scott ahead of a guy like Josh Downs who was more productive in back to back seasons playing against tougher competition. I think Downs will test similarly to Scott speed wise as well, Downs has some great contested catches on tape also.

I don't hate Scott but I would loathe that pick at 31.

kccrow 02-18-2023 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoes (Post 16817345)
If Tyler Scott is your guy you trade down, absolutely no reason to take him at 31. I like him as a prospect, for a smaller(ish) guy, his athleticism is off the charts and he is freaky strong (600 lbs squat, 16 reps of bench at 225).

I just have a hard time putting Scott ahead of a guy like Josh Downs who was more productive in back to back seasons playing against tougher competition. I think Downs will test similarly to Scott speed wise as well, Downs has some great contested catches on tape also.

I don't hate Scott but I would loathe that pick at 31.

I respect your opinion quite a bit. That said, I don't think Downs will test anywhere near what Scott does. Scott was a junior olympian and will most likely run in the mid-4.2s. His acceleration and top-end are insane. There's a better-than-not chance he tests faster than Tyreek. Downs looks really similar to a guy we already have on the roster, to be honest. I think Flowers is quicker. Scott is absolutely quicker. Downs was a feature target they manufactured getting the ball. Scott put up 100 less yards on 40 less receptions. I just think when Reid sees the tape of this kid, that big brain of his is already going to be scheming what he can do with this kid.

JPH83 02-18-2023 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoes (Post 16817345)
If Tyler Scott is your guy you trade down, absolutely no reason to take him at 31. I like him as a prospect, for a smaller(ish) guy, his athleticism is off the charts and he is freaky strong (600 lbs squat, 16 reps of bench at 225).

I just have a hard time putting Scott ahead of a guy like Josh Downs who was more productive in back to back seasons playing against tougher competition. I think Downs will test similarly to Scott speed wise as well, Downs has some great contested catches on tape also.

I don't hate Scott but I would loathe that pick at 31.

I'm with you. If kccrow is correct on the speed of Scott it'll be interesting, I'm not sure I saw Tyreek speed but stand to be corrected. I just thought Downs looks way shiftier. He's probably a top slot only but is Scott any more? Downs absolutely puts people in blenders.

staylor26 02-18-2023 06:43 PM

I know I'm like the only big Dell fan on CP, but his film is better than all of those guys :shrug:

Size is truly the only issue there, but if he were just the same size as those guys, he'd be a lock in the 1st.

Couch-Potato 02-18-2023 11:15 PM

This draft is considered fairly limited in talent and we have 11-12 picks. I think Veach pkgs pick to move up in the 1st or 2nd to get his guys.

Would be a lot of fun if that guy was Q Johnston or J Hyatt in my opinion, but not sure what it would take.

staylor26 02-18-2023 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato (Post 16818266)
This draft is considered fairly limited in talent and we have 11-12 picks. I think Veach pkgs pick to move up in the 1st or 2nd to get his guys.

Would be a lot of fun if that guy was Q Johnston or J Hyatt in my opinion, but not sure what it would take.

Again, when people are talking about the quality of the draft, they're typically talking about the top of it.

That doesn't mean that the talent level isn't about the same once you get outside of the top 15-20 picks.

But I can definitely see Veach using picks to move around, because I don't think this team needs quantity as much this season as it does quality.

If Veach can just find 3-4 guys like last year's class, we're ****ing golden.

Stryker 02-18-2023 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 16814190)
The tight end from ND has to be on here simply because if he's there you have to take him from a BPA spot right?

Michael Mayer and how ironic he wears #87 :hmmm:

[IMG]<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/uzR6-q96lpM" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/IMG]

This has Kansas City Chiefs written all over it!

JPH83 02-19-2023 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16817982)
I know I'm like the only big Dell fan on CP, but his film is better than all of those guys :shrug:

Size is truly the only issue there, but if he were just the same size as those guys, he'd be a lock in the 1st.

I rate him, separates probably better than anyone in the class. I just don't see how he does anything on the outside at that size. I reckon he's a slot and I think Moore and/or Juju will be that guy for us.

Couch-Potato 02-19-2023 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPH83 (Post 16818330)
I rate him, separates probably better than anyone in the class. I just don't see how he does anything on the outside at that size. I reckon he's a slot and I think Moore and/or Juju will be that guy for us.

I tend to agree, but Moore hasn't shown me enough and JuJu might leave so I'm not ruling out slot just yet.

RunKC 02-19-2023 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16818269)
Again, when people are talking about the quality of the draft, they're typically talking about the top of it.

That doesn't mean that the talent level isn't about the same once you get outside of the top 15-20 picks.

But I can definitely see Veach using picks to move around, because I don't think this team needs quantity as much this season as it does quality.

If Veach can just find 3-4 guys like last year's class, we're ****ing golden.

I want him to move up in the draft to get a pass rusher or RT. Either is fine by me.

I agree with the sentiment though.

Couch-Potato 02-20-2023 04:05 PM

I'm praying one of these guys falls, I'd have a hard time picking someone else if one did.

DT Byran Breese
WR Quinton Johnston
WR Jordan Addison
WR Jalin Hyatt
OT Anton Harrison
RB Bijan Robinson

kozzman555 02-20-2023 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato (Post 16819818)
I'm praying one of these guys falls, I'd have a hard time picking someone else if one did.

DT Byran Breese
WR Quinton Johnston
WR Jordan Addison
WR Jalin Hyatt
OT Anton Harrison
RB Bijan Robinson

I'd drop Bijan Robinson for DE Foskey, love that dude's tape. I can't bring myself to draft another RB in the top three after CEH debacle and finding Pacheco in the 7th. There's just so much more value in other positions. I'd also prob add in Dawand Jones for RT, lock that o line down.

Couch-Potato 02-20-2023 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kozzman555 (Post 16819877)
I'd drop Bijan Robinson for DE Foskey, love that dude's tape. I can't bring myself to draft another RB in the top three after CEH debacle and finding Pacheco in the 7th. There's just so much more value in other positions. I'd also prob add in Dawand Jones for RT, lock that o line down.

Others likely feel the same way that you do about RBs which means he might drop from Top 10 talent to us at #31. I'm not screaming for a RB in RD 1, but we have the #1 roster and if a generational talent falls to us then maybe "BPA."

I like Jones a lot! But I think bc we have OBJ, and fans don't love his play style already, a faster footed RT would be preferable. He wouldn't bother me as our #1 one bit if Andy likes him, but I think he's climbing up from the second rather than falling from the top half of the first.

I think we'll get our choice of Foskey, Hall, Ojulari, White, Tuipuloto, Harrison, Carter or McDonald minus one or two at the bottom of the first but none were considered a top 10 talent that might slide down on draft day like Breese. Of those DEs mentioned, I think Foskey, White, Tuipuloto, and Harrison fit Spags size requirements with Harrison being the fastest and Tuipuloto having the most sacks.

Vladimir_Kyrilytch 02-20-2023 06:02 PM

Question for you draft experts, which I am not. Is there any realistic chance the Chiefs draft Travis Kelce 2.0 with their late first round pick? He's projected to go late 1st. It doesnt seem like a position of need, but come on, Travis Kelce 2.0 is hard to pass up. QB wasnt a need when we drafted Mahomes, they said.

Can I get my hopes up at all here or nah?

For clarity: Luke Musgrave, Oregon State University.

staylor26 02-20-2023 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vladimir_Kyrilytch (Post 16819983)
Question for you draft experts, which I am not. Is there any realistic chance the Chiefs draft Travis Kelce 2.0 with their late first round pick? He's projected to go late 1st. It doesnt seem like a position of need, but come on, Travis Kelce 2.0 is hard to pass up. QB wasnt a need when we drafted Mahomes, they said.

Can I get my hopes up at all here or nah?

For clarity: Luke Musgrave, Oregon State University.

If they can fill some holes in FA, I think it's a very real possibility.

Honestly, if the Chiefs can come into the draft with the plan of taking the best WR or TE available, that would probably be ideal.

Couch-Potato 02-20-2023 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16819988)
If they can fill some holes in FA, I think it's a very real possibility.

Honestly, if the Chiefs can come into the draft with the plan of taking the best WR or TE available, that would probably be ideal.

If it's a weapon we want, I hope we trade up to get the one we want instead of waiting to see what falls to us at #31.

staylor26 02-20-2023 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato (Post 16820005)
If it's a weapon we want, I hope we trade up to get the one we want instead of waiting to see what falls to us at #31.

I wouldn't have a problem with that, but I don't even think that's going to be necessary.

Addison, Smith-Njigba, Johnston, Hyatt, Mayer, Kincaid, Musgrave

Somebody has to fall.

RunKC 02-20-2023 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16819988)
a amHonestly, if the Chiefs can come into the draft with the plan of taking the best pass rusher or RT available, that would probably be ideal.

Fixed :D

Dull Tools 02-21-2023 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16819988)
If they can fill some holes in FA, I think it's a very real possibility.

Honestly, if the Chiefs can come into the draft with the plan of taking the best WR or TE available, that would probably be ideal.

I kind of agree on TE and have mentioned it before on this thread.

Issue with TE the value for a rookie TE isn't that valuable when compared to a FA TE so it is less worthwhile compared to a WR, OL and DE.

In terms of a position to target in off season then I think it makes sense although the 3rd season is massive for TEs so Noah Gray could be in for a breakout year in terms of production.

I would love to see Mahomes throw to Darnel Washington though.

JPH83 02-21-2023 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16820060)
I wouldn't have a problem with that, but I don't even think that's going to be necessary.

Addison, Smith-Njigba, Johnston, Hyatt, Mayer, Kincaid, Musgrave

Somebody has to fall.

I'd almost never want a TE over a WR in the 1st, but this year might be the exception. Sometimes you've got to take what the draft is giving you and TE looks stronger.

Musgrave is a guy I was high on early, but back then he was barely flirting with a R3 evaluation. He's an unreal athlete but Ive cooled on him for one reason, he NEVER seems to play through contact. For a guy that big and quick he goes down way too easily.

RunKC 02-21-2023 10:51 AM

What about the OU tackle? He seems to be a good fit for us

Direckshun 02-21-2023 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 16821054)
What about the OU tackle? He seems to be a good fit for us

You'll have to be more specific, because OU actually has two tackles in this year's class.

kccrow 02-21-2023 11:02 AM

This draft is SO DEEP at TE that I'd be unquestionably pissed if they took one in the 1st. Not only do we have Kelce starting for the next couple years yet, but you can get similar talent in the 3rd or 4th round.

RunKC 02-21-2023 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 16821057)
You'll have to be more specific, because OU actually has two tackles in this year's class.

Anton Harrison

JPH83 02-21-2023 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 16821086)
This draft is SO DEEP at TE that I'd be unquestionably pissed if they took one in the 1st. Not only do we have Kelce starting for the next couple years yet, but you can get similar talent in the 3rd or 4th round.

Any thoughts on who might be available from the back end of the 2nd? You were considering Durham later in right?

I kinda get the point re depth meaning you might as well wait until later, makes sense to me. I think the opposite argument is my issue with going with WR early, it's so thin that the depth in guaranteed quality doesn't extend to the end of the 1st, so why force it?

kccrow 02-21-2023 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato (Post 16818266)
This draft is considered fairly limited in talent and we have 11-12 picks. I think Veach pkgs pick to move up in the 1st or 2nd to get his guys.

Would be a lot of fun if that guy was Q Johnston or J Hyatt in my opinion, but not sure what it would take.

Who is considering this draft limited?

Admittedly, I haven't watched the Mel Kipers or Todd McShays of the world to really know what the hell is going on in the media about it.

From my standpoint, this draft is really strong. It has elite players at every position, its deep in round talent. It has some hella deep position groups at CB, ER, WR, TE, and RB.

I think DT, S, LB and OL are at par. Not bad, not "best ever."

I dunno, I see no major holes in this draft. Does it lack Punters? Yeah, I think so. Ha.

kccrow 02-21-2023 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPH83 (Post 16821465)
Any thoughts on who might be available from the back end of the 2nd? You were considering Durham later in right?

I kinda get the point re depth meaning you might as well wait until later, makes sense to me. I think the opposite argument is my issue with going with WR early, it's so thin that the depth in guaranteed quality doesn't extend to the end of the 1st, so why force it?

I dunno about 2nd round. I've seen guys like LaPorta, Schoonmaker, Kraft, Washington, and Kincaid all rated there.... meh. I don't think you take a TE in the 2nd round this year.

I really like Durham, Whyle, Latu, and Mallory as 3rd/4th guys. I really think those are some quality TEs and you're not throwing a premium at them.

raybec 4 02-21-2023 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 16821517)
I dunno about 2nd round. I've seen guys like LaPorta, Schoonmaker, Kraft, Washington, and Kincaid all rated there.... meh. I don't think you take a TE in the 2nd round this year.

I really like Durham, Whyle, Latu, and Mallory as 3rd/4th guys. I really think those are some quality TEs and you're not throwing a premium at them.

I think Schoonmaker is going to end up being a solid receiving tight end. He has a lot of tools.

Mecca 02-21-2023 02:12 PM

This guy isn't a 1st rounder but go watch some video on LB Daiyan Henley probably a 3-4 but that dude has major upside...

JPH83 02-21-2023 02:22 PM

I don't get the depth at WR argument. The top 5 is weak compared to previous years and thereafter there's a load of "who knows" but again I don't see more than in previous years. There will be great value picks all the way, there always is, but it doesn't stand out to me as a good year.

kozzman555 02-21-2023 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raybec 4 (Post 16821540)
I think Schoonmaker is going to end up being a solid receiving tight end. He has a lot of tools.

That could be, but I don't see Burt Verch drafting him. I just went through everyone single draft class he's had with us as GM and there were 6 players that were either 23 or nearly 23 when drafted. I just eyeballed their age and the draft year, I did not dig deep down in to their exact birthday and calculate it. Zero players were 24 and Schoonmaker is already 24. The vast majority of his picks were 21/22 years old when drafted, which makes sense because you graduate HS at 18, then have 3-4yrs of college. I don't see him picking up many RS SR players but I get why. After their rookie deal, they will be getting close to 30, so the return on that draft pick investment is going to be a little lower.

kccrow 02-21-2023 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPH83 (Post 16821567)
I don't get the depth at WR argument. The top 5 is weak compared to previous years and thereafter there's a load of "who knows" but again I don't see more than in previous years. There will be great value picks all the way, there always is, but it doesn't stand out to me as a good year.

Just because it may not have a bunch of 6 top-20 picks doesn't mean it isn't deep. If last year proved anything as well, teams are going to overdraft WRs.

I think the basis of my argument with the talent of this class is that I can find near comparisons for most of the top WRs in this group to former 1st round picks. Here are some comps that I think are close.

Quentin Johnston
Most closely resembles: Kevin White - 7th overall
Speed, size, agility, he has it all. Easily the best bet to be the 1st WR taken and a potential top-10 pick. Remember Kevin White from West Virginia? That's going back but I like the comp. White busted due to basically destroying his tibia and fibula in back-to-back seasons. Unfortunate because that kid had every ounce of talent in the world and I think Johnston is really close athletically. I don't know if Johnston is as good of a route runner and his hands aren't quite as good.

Zay Flowers
Most closely resembles: Jahan Dotson - 16th overall
Just a really good route runner and he's quick. I don't know if he has elite top-end, similar to Dotson. Really good hands. That said, he's going to get open he's likely going to be a quality player. Definite potential to be a Tyler Lockett type.

Jalen Hyatt
Most closely resembles: Will Fuller - 21st overall
The ability of Hyatt to take the top off is undeniable. He's an incredible talent. A bit of a linear athlete and has an unrefined route tree. We saw a very similar Jameson Williams go 12th overall last year and Henry Ruggs III only a couple of seasons ago at the same spot. Hyatt is in that range of 15-20 I think.

Jaxon Smith-Njigba
Most closely resembles: Kadarius Toney - 20th overall
People forget just how absolutely insane this kid is. He puts clown shoes on people. The legitimate concern is he's Kadarius Toney 2.0 in terms of health issues paired with incredible talent. So, I guess we see what the NFL thinks. That's a tough go as an executive. He can play every position but he's best off the line and is elite from the slot.

Jordan Addison
Most closely resembles: Hollywood Brown - 25th overall
Acceleration is A+. Route running is A+. So slippery and hard to cover. Like Brown, he's a smaller, wire-frame receiver with an outstanding ability to uncover and make plays. I think top-20 is absolutely on the table but somewhere before the end of the round is a certainty.

Cedric Tillman
Most closely resembles: Michael Pittman Jr. - 34th overall
I'm really quite high on Tillman despite my lack of pounding the table for him. Honestly, there may not be a better JuJu replacement where the Chiefs pick if that's the type of WR they want. Anyhow, NFL bloodlines, tough in traffic, amazing hands, and enough speed to make a play down the field. He's not going to juke your shorts off or blaze by you with a 4.3 but he's just a good, consistent, starting NFL WR.

Josh Downs
Most closely resembles: Elijah Moore - 34th overall
I don't know if Downs is as fast as Moore but I see a lot of similarities in their ability to work every inch of the field under 10 yards and sneak deep once in a while. Downs was definitely Mr. Reliable when NC needed a play. I think Downs makes his living in the NFL as a slot and, like Moore, ends up a high 2nd round pick.

Tyler Scott
Most closely resembles: DeSean Jackson - 49th overall
If there were ever a WR to bet on putting on a show at the Combine, it's probably Scott. He's probably going to be in that Henry Ruggs range for speed, vertical, etc. Scott does more than run deep as he can work the short and intermediate zones and has some wiggle as a former RB. He also does a tremendous job of high-pointing in traffic. I like that he primarily played his snaps on the outside (to the point of almost exclusively) and can win reps. We can argue the value NFL teams put on finding the next DJax as well as speed tends to go high.

There are several 2nd and 3rd round-caliber WRs as well, which really speaks to the depth of the class, not just these guys I figure to be in the conversation for round 1.


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