Jayson Oweh, Penn State
 

I don’t see this guy getting a lot of love on CP, so I figured I’d start a discussion because I really love his upside and I could easily see him being the pick at 31.

He has very great length and he’s a freak athletically. The problem is he had a very weird season, like a lot of other prospects, where he didn’t get any sacks in a small sample size of games. If you watch the tape though, you can see him flashing and getting pressure on a fairly consistent basis relative to the lack of production.

Despite the stats, he clearly was a better player than in 2019 where he recorded 5 sacks, just an example of how those stats can be misleading in a season where he only played 7 games.

He hasn’t been playing football for a long time, but he’s not just an athlete. He’s definitely a football player and could be our Sneed/Gay/Thornhill/Jones at DE.

We have athletic freaks all over this defense, but not on the edge. I love Clark, but he’s not that. You add that to what we already have though?

This defense could be playing like a top 5 defense down the stretch in 2021.

When you’re picking at 31, these are the kind of guys that could make drafting late irrelevant. This guys just scratching the surface, and with our staff I have full confidence he could reach that potential and give us a top 10 talent at 31.

I would take him over the WRs at 31 as I see it being a bigger need.

I honestly don't understand the ranking of him in the first round by most boards yet Joe Tryon is ranked at the bottom of the second. Tryon is the better player at this point. I don't think Oweh is a first-round caliber player.

I'm not about to start subscribing to the hidden stats, that's how you end up championing players like Matt Cassel and Alex Smith. The numbers say he didn't get a sack in 7 games in college. In fact, they say he's had 1 sack in the last 12. Sorry, I'm not taking an edge rusher at 31 that couldn't get to the QB in college.

Does he have some exciting tools to work with and could he become a better pro as he grows? Sure, I think so. I think that's the type of player you take in the 2nd round.

I love the measurables; but I'm a little leery of him. I mean, falling in love with the measurables can also mean you end up with Kpassngnon.

I'd prefer Rashad Weaver to be honest. Production, baby.

KPass isn’t half the athlete this guy is. It’s not remotely comparable.

Weaver might be an average player at best, while Oweh could be the best pass rusher in this class down the line. There’s not a draft expert that would take Weaver over Oweh man.

Look at a guy like Danielle Hunter. 3.5 career sacks, which is less that Oweh had in just 2019. Hunter wasn’t as highly regarded of a prospect, but the Vikings bet on the elite measurables/size and their coaching staff to get the most out of him. They hit big because of it.

This is the same argument of Gay vs. Wilson that we had last year. I think you “don’t understand” because you overlook the raw athleticism to go with the flashes on tape in favor of a more finished product and safer choice. I guess it’s just a difference in philosophy, but I prefer to swing for the fences.

Like Gay, I have all the confidence in the world in our defensive staff to get the most out of Oweh.

I like Tryon, but he’s nowhere near the athlete that Oweh is and he doesn’t have top 10 talent/upside.

If Oweh’s a “2nd rounder”, he’s an early 2nd rounder at worst, and we’re picking 31st. Also, some people have Tryon as a 3rd rounder and most have Oweh ahead of him. You’re certainly in the minority here.

You don’t get a guy like Oweh at 31 if he’s a finished product with no concerns. It’s the same as Phillips, but it’s where he’s at in his development as opposed to injury concerns. You don’t like Phillips because his injury concerns, and you don’t like Oweh because of where he’s at in his development. What you fail to understand is it’s the only reason we even have a shot at either guy. That’s why they’re appealing.

Again, when you’re picking at 31, this is how you make your draft position irrelevant. Like Phillips, Oweh has top 15 talent. There’s a reason they’re both consensus fringe 1st rounders despite though question marks. That’s what I think you’re missing.

Also, nobody said anything about “hidden stats”.

When you watch his 2020 tape, he gets pressure. Pressure isn’t “hidden”, it’s right there on tape.

For instance, he was credited with 10 pressures alone in the first game of the season.

I know we don’t like PFF, but their grades reflect this as well. Oweh graded out really well against the run and the pass. I know it’s PFF, but this is a pretty good indicator that the lack of production can be misleading.

It reminds me of Chris Jones, another guy PFF was very high on coming out. I told people over and over again that the production wasn’t a good representation of what you saw on tape, and they wouldn’t listen. Jones didn’t get a lot of sacks in college, but he was VERY disruptive on tape. Oweh is exactly the same in that regard.

This just doesn’t seem like a very good pass rushing class. There’s some decent guys at the top but there’s now way in hell I’m spending a first on this guy. At some point production matters.

And Chris had decent stats for a DT that was double-teamed a ton. Plus he just raped guys at MSU.

I think we need to focus early on the strength of the draft which is OL and WR

Or they might both bust. Or they might both be all-pros.

In most of the mocks I've seen and ran, they're within 10 picks of each other, and sometimes less. One's a freakier athlete with less production, one has shown consistent production.

I'll grant you that Oweh's ceiling is higher, and I don't really dislike him, I've taken him myself in several mocks.

I think Weaver's floor is higher; but in no way do I think his ceiling is 'average at best'.

I don’t know about the mock draft simulators, but I’m telling you the consensus is they’re much further apart than 10 picks. Weaver is a 3rd rounder at best, while Oweh is a 1st round at best.

Weaver’s ceiling is very limited man.

Oweh was pretty productive in 2019 though. He had 6 sacks. He’s shown that he can produce, but this was a weird year. These guys never even got into a groove playing 7 games without playing every single week. I’m telling you though, he absolutely got better regardless of the drop in production. It’s obvious when you watch 2019 tape and 2020 tape.

Chris Jones never had more than 3 sacks in a season. He wasn’t nearly as productive as he was disruptive. The comparison is more than appropriate, but disagree all you want.

Look, you guys can be scared off from the lack of production this year all you want, but it’s pretty obvious that you haven’t really watched the guy play. I’ll go a step further and say I don’t think any of you, other than crow, have even done your homework on the guy at all. I can just tell.

Just about all the experts and the draft community are higher on this guy than CP is. There’s a a reason for that.

I was anticipating this kind of reaction, because like I said, he’s absolutely going under the radar here.

That's why I'm most high in round 1 on taking a shot on Ronnie Perkins over any of these guys. Perkins is pretty stout against the run (knock on Tryon), he gets home on the QB and applies insane pressure numbers (knock on Oweh), and he doesn't have half a dozen concussions (knock on Phillips). I'd prefer to take the shot on a guy that will drop because of a failed drug test rather than missing a portion of his game, much in the same way the Chiefs had no business getting Justin Houston coming out.

He absolutely played better, especially run defense. That said, he struggles getting pressure and getting home altogether. He falls further against better competition. He has a thin frame and lacks any real power. At this point he opens himself up to lineman too much, he doesn't have the get-off you'd expect for his measurables, and he has no clue how to string together anything. He doesn't use his hands overly well. He's raw as hell. He is PURE height, weight, speed. You have to coach this kid up a ton. He should have stayed in college another year. I'm not taking that in round 1. Take him? Yes, absolutely. I'd take the raw product and hope I could mould it over the next couple of years, because that is likely what it will take, but I'd do it in round 2 or 3.

Tryon is light years beyond him in development but still needs some work, is also young and not fully matured, and has similar measurements. I'd take Tryon over Oweh every single day of the week and twice on Sundays with no reservations or hesitation. I've seen Tryon supplanting Oweh in several mocks recently, and I think a large part of that is ability to affect the QB right now.

Not a single NFL team has taken an edge rusher that has registered zero sacks in his final season in college going back for at least the past 20 years and the average is around 10 sacks. That's a huge, and I mean huge, discrepancy. Oweh's former teammate, Yetur Gross-Matos, was twice the player Oweh is at this point and coming off back-to-back 8+ sack seasons and still dropped to 38. To compound that, last year's draft saw Gross-Matos be the 2nd pure DE taken. This draft is far more loaded at the position than last year's.

The best guys in the business (DJ, Zierlein, Brugler, the guys at Draft Network, etc.) all have Oweh as a 1st round pick.

Again, you’re in the minority here, which is fine, but I’m not exactly going out on a limb or being bold.

Generally speaking, the draft community loves this prospect and they’re not all that concerned with the lack of production.

They literally all say exactly the same thing I’m trying to say. He’s very disruptive on tape and he’s not an athlete playing football. He’s a football player, albeit a raw one. I’m confidently betting on the upside.

Just watched some footage on him. He looks like a 3rd rd player that will be taken in the 2nd due to measurabled and athleticism.

LMAO

I can’t wait to bump this thread when he inevitably goes in the 1st or very early in the 2nd.

Again, it doesn’t matter whether it’s DJ, Zierlein, Brugler, the guys at TDN, they ALL have him as a 1st rounder.

It doesn't matter if he goes in the 1st or if he's rated by the media draftniks in the 1st. What really will be key is his career trajectory. I think he'd be alot better off if a team running a 3-4 drafts him as an OLB than he will be a 4-3 team at DE in terms of immediate impact.

Nobody is arguing he doesn't have the physical merits to become a good player, or at least I'm not. I just don't think he's a guy you take in round 1. You brought up Willie Gay and he's a phenomenal example of a guy you take later than round 1. IF Gay's on-field game (and availability) was on par with his physical abilities, he would have been a top 20 pick. He went 63rd. Veach banked on coaching that athletic ability up and he did it without spending a 1st. I look at Oweh the same way.

At some point I might release my DE analysis for Direkshun, but I can tell you where I'd have guys on my board in terms of talent, projection, and scheme fit:

1. Gregory Rousseau, Miami (6'6" 260)
2. Kwity Paye, Michigan (6'4" 277)
3. Ronnie Perkins, Oklahoma (6'3' 255)
4. Joe Tryon, Washington (6'5" 262)
5. Joseph Ossai, Texas (6'4" 250)
6. Jaelen Phillips, Miami (6'5" 260)*
7. Jayson Oweh, Penn State (6'5" 260)
8. Elerson Smith, Northern Iowa (6'6" 250)
9. Patrick Jones II, Pitt (6'5" 260)
10. Carlos Basham, Jr., Wake Forest (6'5" 285)
11. Rashad Weaver, Pitt (6'5" 270)
12. Dayo Odeyingbo, Vanderbilt (6'5" 279)
13. Daelin Hayes, Notre Dame (6'4" 268)
14. Jordan Smith, UAB (6'6" 255)
15. Jonathon Cooper, Ohio State (6'3" 255)

Notable omissions as guys I see as 3-4 OLB only: Azeez Ojulari, Georgia (6'3" 240), Zaven Collins (6'4' 250), Quincy Roche, Miami (6'3" 240), Shaka Toney, Penn State (6'3" 235), Hamilcar Rashed, Oregon State (6'4" 240), Chris Rumph, Duke (6'3" 235)
*#3 if not for Concussion history

Oweh has been a consensus late 1st to earl 2nd from the beginning of the process while Gay went from a mid rounder to a 2nd. There’s a huge difference there between the 2.

I've seen Oweh all over the board and moved up and down. Some of the boards that put him on their big board in the top 32 players don't even have him in mocks in round 1.

If you want to pin your hopes to one of the least developed players in a deep class of pass rushers, that's up to you. I love the athletic traits, but I'll take the guy with the same traits and better on-field production all the time. If the Chiefs take him, I'll support it. I don't hate the player, I just think there are a few better prospects out there than him.

Give me Ronnie Perkins, who had 23 tackles, 46 QB pressures, 19 hurries, and 5.5 sacks in 6 games this year.

He could due to word of mouth but is that really a player you want to draft in the first rd?

I’m not drafting a player like this over some of the OL and receiving threats that should be there. It’s just too damn risky to draft a player like that with what’s available.

2nd rd? Sure.

How many players that had measurable but not production that went in the first rd were successful?

If we stay at #31, I'd like to go DE.

If it's Oweh I won't complain. I'd probably rather have a Jalen Phillips.

My preference would be to move down to the late 30's, early 40's and pick up a third or early fourth.

At that point, there are 4 or 5 guys even at DE that I'd be happy with.

It's perfectly fine to fall in love with a player pre-draft, but remember that this year there are a lot of differences in scouting opinions and that the draft is not going to be anywhere near a consensus on anyone like it normally is.

Watched some of him. Looks interesting. Seems like one of those 2nd round guys that have the talent to go round one but aren’t polished or whatever.

Kind of like Chris Jones was.

If you could trade down 10 spots pick up a 3rd then take him that would be ideal imo

Maybe it’s just what I’m seeing but man I really like what I see from Joe Tryon. Dude has a below average first year as a college starter then in 2019 he exploded onto the scene with 12.5 TFL’s and 8 sacks.

The guy looks kinda similar in size to Oweh at 6’5” but bigger at a recorded 262 lbs. and just looking at the guy you know he’s got long ass arms.

If we pick Oweh then I will jump aboard, but my preference is Tryon.

I love Oweh at 31. I still remember how much I liked the Tamba Hali pick and how much shit I took for it. :D

Hali also came off 65 tackles, 17 for a loss, and 11 sacks. That's a big difference.

Oweh didn't just forget how to play, though. It was a weird year, especially in the B1G.

He wasn't that much of a player the year before. I just don't think he's in consideration in the 1st for any team, much less the Chiefs. I could be wrong.

Which is why I’ve tried to point out that all of the experts and most plugged in guys (in terms of how the league views prospects) have him in the 1st.

In a year where there’s no consensus on a lot of these guys, that absolutely means something.

Also, he had 6 sacks in 2019 despite not even being a starter. You can’t put emphasis on production then turn around and ignore it at the same time.

Lack of production always scares me when a guy is that athletic I will admit

These are the types of guys you usually draft at the end of the first though

They aren't though. They aren't the guys that get taken at the end of the first because they haven't been taken at the end of the first. No player with his lack of production over the last 12 games of his career has ever been drafted in the first round.

You guys can feel free to look back for yourselves and find an example.

K’Lavon Chaisson just went top 20 last year and he has a few more career sacks.

Yea 6.5 of those came in 2019, but in terms of the tape, he was about as raw as Oweh. He just had the benefit of playing on one of the best teams in CFB history and was able to pin his ears back a lot more than Oweh was this year. Not to mention he played in twice as many games as Oweh did this year.

I mean I don’t think the difference between them is more than 10-15 picks.

And again, this was a very weird year, even moreso for the Big 10.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Jayson Oweh (9) &amp; Shaka Toney (6) had 15 QB pressures between them in <a href="https://twitter.com/PennStateFball?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@PennStateFball</a> OT loss to Indiana<br><br>Oweh will be a riser in <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/2021NFLDraft?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#2021NFLDraft</a> throughout this season... Only 1 start coming into 2020<br><br>Was on <a href="https://twitter.com/BruceFeldmanCFB?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@BruceFeldmanCFB</a> Freak List over the summer - 4.33 40 &amp; 36.5&quot; Verical <a href="https://t.co/OpJcs2cir6">pic.twitter.com/OpJcs2cir6</a></p>&mdash; Ben Fennell (@BenFennell_NFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/BenFennell_NFL/status/1320472577693913089?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 25, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Throwing up 9 pressures against Indiana doesn't wow me. Do that every game against all the competition on the schedule and you'll wow me.

Perkins averaged nearly 8 pressures a game in the 6 he was able to play this year. The guy makes Oweh look like a bitch and gets zero love because of that drug suspension. I look at the top-15 teams he wreaked havoc on the past couple years, not the Indiana's of the world.

I guess we'll agree to disagree on Oweh. I don't get the fascination in the first round by anyone, not just you but all the analysts. And on top of it, the lack of love for Perkins and Tryon who, on the field, have just looked like much better players.

His pass rush win percentage was 18%.

He was consistently disruptive on tape, regardless of who he was playing. I was just posting some clips for the thread though.

Recent draft history analytics suggest that physical traits > college production when it comes to pass rushers becoming good in the NFL.

He checks the boxes to become a freak pass rusher. Just raw as F.

Probably wouldn’t reap the large benefits of the pick for a year or two down the road. But I’d prefer him over some solid DE who’s ceiling is severely limited.

The key questions to determine if I’d use 31 or not on him can’t be answered by us. I wanna know what his mentality is, how important is the game to him. If you’re not willing to do whatever it takes to win rings, you don’t belong in KC right now.

The bold is why I wouldn’t take him at 31. We can’t have first rd picks being projects like this with Mahomes on a big contract.

Get those guys in rd 3 and on

See I’d say the opposite. With Mahomes big contract the only way you’re gonna get elite players is to take swings like this

This guy gets it.

For once! ;)

Big difference though. I want to see some ascension. I want to see guys beasting in good competition in college.

Clyde did that, Ford did that, Peters.

I know he was the exception due to timing with Tyreek but Hardman is still being handheld and it will be year 3 for him. Fortunately Mahomes is his QB and helps make it look better overall.

This team can’t be in situations like we had redshirting Dee Ford waiting for them to develop. You have the highest paid player in football you’re now limited in FA. These rookies only have 4 years before they want a new contract.

The draft is where you have to get better.

At the same time, you don't want a team full of high floor, low ceiling guys.

There has to be a balance. You don't get superstars like Kelce and Hill without taking a chance on developmental prospects.

Yeah but you also don’t want guys like Mecole Hardman who are all measurables and/or athleticism but no football substance. Kpassagnon was the same way.

You can have high ceiling guys that aren’t projects. Hell Kelce was extremely talented in college. Only reason he fell in the draft was character. Same with Tyrann Matthieu.

We’re constantly trying for boom or bust players bc we have the staff to make it work if they’ve got the talent there. Chris Jones was stuck behind a dominant draft class at his position and Lucas Niang got hurt so he is a potential steal that was medically cleared.

I just fear people are looking at this kid in terms of measurables and not enough about on field. I get that this year was weird but a first Rd talent who couldn’t notch a single sack in 7 games?

That ****ing terrifies me

^^^^

Has done no homework on the guy if he thinks he’s just an athlete and not a football player.

I don’t know how many times I can say it. There’s a reason this guy is a consensus 1st round player despite the lack of production this year. He appears to have the intangibles to reach his upside.

“Make no mistake about it he’s not just an athlete, he’s a football player” and “he wasn’t productive this year but he was very disruptive” is in about every scouting report you can find.

Dude, Tyreek Hill played RB in college and they turned him into a WR. Not only that but after getting kicked off Oklahoma State, he had a completely lackluster stint in Division 2. He was as raw as raw can get. Even more raw than Mecole Hardman honestly.

We picked Tyreek in the 5th rd

Of the edge rushers likely to be available at 31 who have potential to play like top 10-15 picks, it looks laws that are causing them to drop are:

1) Oweh - production questions. Does he look like Tarzan and play like Jane?
2) Perkins - discipline questions. He failed a drug test!
3) Phillips - concussion questions. He's had enough that the next one could end his career.

Of all those options, the question/issue I'm least concerned about is Perkins getting popped for marijuana. He has top 10-15 pick upside as well.

And the "heavy hands" thing stands out to me... that seems to be a trait this staff looks for. Every scouting report I've seen on Perkins mentions that.

Yeah I think I like Perkins the best

I’m a big fan of Perkins, but I’ve seen little to no 1st round hype for him.

He’s another guy that most have as a mid/late 2nd, and some even have him in the 3rd.

Love the speed and bend Perkins shows on tape. But yeah he’s a 3rd rd pick in Matt Miller’s mock.

I hope we spend multiple picks on these types of guys. Loved what we saw from Wharton. Can only help us to get more athleticism on the edges.

And he became a superstar.

Perkins is the least worrisome.

Phillips is the most, IMO.

After the recent history we've had, this team has no business investing in guys that might not be able to play.

Just to give some perspective on how high the draft community is on Oweh:

Jeremiah has him 27th in his overall rankings
Zierlein has him 18th
Brugler has him in the top 25

For what it's worth, from Kyle Crabbs at TDN on Oweh:

"I wouldn’t pigeonhole him into being scheme exclusive, but tight alignment defenses will cause a steeper transition period to the pros. Wide-9 and odd fronts that let their rushers align with some extra outside leverage are most friendly to his immediate skill set. He’s got the athleticism to develop into anything a coaching staff wants, but you’ll need patience and to spend significant time developing his technical prowess for him to live up to all of his potential. "

Jeremiah has us taking an often injured guard at #31.

I don't know how much stock I'm putting in his opinion.

Oweh is pretty consensus late first, early second.

I'm not opposed.

I'm not familiar with Indianas offensive line talent but I do know that was a pretty physical team. Bama stole their strength and conditioning coach. I had trouble really evaluating anything penn st this year it seemed like every game they played was like the Chiefs super bowl game. Shit even Nebraska beat them and I dont remember their rushers standing out that game.

Ah so that’s why he’s a first rd prospect with draft analysts. Looks like the kid ran a 4.33 40 back in 2019, albeit not at his reported 252 lbs but still thats nuts.

He still scares the shut out of me for a first round pick

I haven't been following this thread, but keep in mind Oweh's "lack of production" includes 0 sacks this past year.

Zero sacks.

You want to know who else had very few sacks but was insanely disruptive? I was in love with the guy.

Owamagbe Odighizuwa. I loved him. He had very few sacks but his penetration was insane.

The Giants draft him in the 3rd (injury concerns tanked him hard), and he tanked out of the NFL.

I love physicals -- that's why I loved Tanoh Kpassagnon. But I do need production in college before I start dropping firsts on people, or even 2nds.

Thanks for pointing out something that’s been said over and over again in this thread!

He might’ve had 0 sacks, but he consistently pressured the QB and was very disruptive on tape. He had an 18% PRWR. He also had 6 sacks in 2019, so it’s not like he’s incapable. He clearly improved in 2020 despite the drop in production too. It was a weird year (which has also been said over and over again).

Any thoughts on Azeez Ojulari? I've seen him mocked to the chiefs in a couple mock drafts. He seems to have some nice pass rush skills but I'm not sure if he can hold up against the run at DE in a 4-3 scheme.

I think he's a 3-4 OLB. I don't think he fits here.

That might be the case, but he’s no Dee Ford. He’s stout at the point of attack and much better against the run.

3-4 OLB is certainly the ideal role for him, but I wouldn’t say he can’t play in a 4-3 either.

Now he’s definitely not a base SDE in this defense, so if you take him, it’s to be a situational pass rusher and eventually replace Clark.

I'd rather take Ojulari and have him put on weight than take a chance on Oweh becoming productive in round 1.

My preferences still lie in Perkins and Tryon. Tryon obviously fits the Spags type much better than Perkins but Perkins has experience at LDE and is insanely productive.

I like Oweh. I suspect Veach will too.

There are guys I like better at 31 but this would intrigue me.

I think Oweh looks like a late 1st/early 2nd type prospect.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Got the following #’s from well regarded speed coach Ryan Capretta of <a href="https://twitter.com/proactivesp?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@proactivesp</a>. Jayson Oweh: 4.34 hand/ 4.38 laser —&gt; Jaycee Horn: 4.39 hand/ 4.42 laser. —&gt; Micah Parsons: 4.41 hand/ 4.44 laser. Capretta correctly timed Isaiah Simmons last year at 4.38 laser b4 the combine.</p>&mdash; Matt Miller (@nfldraftscout) <a href="https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/status/1369027643077713936?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Tell me when 40 times matter for a DE. I'll wait. ;)

Production my friend. Production.

I'm more interested in his vertical jump.

Danielle Hunter had 3.5 career sacks at LSU.

Oweh had more than that in 2019.

Traits and athleticism. Traits and athleticism.

By the way, I don’t really care about the 40 time. The point of that post was that he’s going in the 1st round testing like that.

Also, Kwity Paye had 2 sacks this year and he’s going to be a top 15-20 pick. Likely the first pass rusher off the board.

Meanwhile, productive pass rushers like Weaver and Jones are projected to go anywhere from rounds 2-4.

K’Lavon Chaisson was a top 20 pick last year despite not being very productive in college. He also started to flash late in his rookie year.

Chris Jones was not very productive in college either.

The NFL clearly values traits and athleticism over production when it comes to pass rushers.

yeah, but there's like 80 guys going in the first round according to the experts when you put it all together.

I don't think anybody knows at all what's going to happen.

Perkins seemed to play really high and lacked leverage. Burst and hand usage is great though. Oweh is intriguing to me but scary. maybe cb would be a better pick round 1? Breeland is probably gone.

1st cb newsome
2nd wr Moore
3rd de Dayo odeyingbo

Paye had 2 sacks in 4 games this year, 6.5 in his last 12.
Chaisson had 6.5 in his last 12.

Oweh had 0 in 7 and has 1 in his last 12.


You can't inject Hunter into the argument when he proves what we've all been trying to say, he was the 88th pick. You take chances on pure traits at pick 88.

The problem isn't with drafting Oweh nor is it with drafting purely on traits. The problem is drafting purely on traits in round 1.

Not a single team in NFL history has ever taken a pass rusher with his lack of production in the 1st round. Never. It hasn't happened. There is no example.

Maybe, just maybe, a team will change that but I have my doubts.

Yetur Gross-Matos was a far better player and he went at 38 in a weak draft for edge talent, so it won't be some Penn State pedigree thing.

I never said Oweh was as productive as those guys, or should be a top 20 pick, the point was clearly that athleticism and traits come first. Neither of those two had the production of a top 20 pick.

I realize that Hunter wasn’t drafted until the 88th pick. That’s irrelevant now. He’d be a top 15 pick in a redraft. He obviously shouldn’t have been the 88th pick.

Today, the NFL clearly values those things over production, and that’s why just about everybody can see the writing on the wall that he will likely be a 1st round pick. That is unless you are absolutely stuck on production while ignoring the fact that he was very disruptive on tape. That’s why I disagree that you’re drafting “purely on traits” if you take him in the 1st. This isn’t just my opinion either, literally every single scouting report I’ve seen says the same things about the production being misleading.

If sacks were that telling of play, the conversation would be that he took a huge step backwards in 2020. He had 6 sacks in 2019, and none in 2020, yet it’s clear as day that he improved against the run and the pass. He was actually very productive in 2019 despite not even being a starter. It’s just a weird 2 year stretch, and that’s why I don’t get too caught up in it.

He hasn’t been playing football very long, and by all accounts he definitely has the intangibles to go with the athleticism as well. Yea, a guy having 0 sacks and going in the 1st is pretty much unheard of, but so is a guy at that size running in the 4.3s. He’s a very unique prospect with unique circumstances and to hold him to a set of rules based on history misses that. Pretty much everybody who’s high on him acknowledges that it’s very rare to be so high on a guy with that kind of production. The point is they believe he will be an outlier and exception to those rules (like a Hunter).

Disagree all you want about him as a prospect, but you’re coming off a bit stubborn insisting he won’t be a 1st rounder just because YOU think he shouldn’t be. I didn’t think Isaiah Wilson should be a 1st going into the draft last year, but as it got closed it was becoming obvious that he would be. You’re allowing your personal opinion of the player to get in the way of reading the tea leaves IMO.

If he had 5 sacks, there’s no way he’d even fall to 31.

With his speed, first step and hips, he can constantly force OTs to commit wide and that should give Daly clay to work with and have him become very good after he adds some pass rush moves to his repertoire. An inside spin move could be devastating.

The intriguing part is that he graded very high against both the run and pass...even higher against the run.

My question...at his size, can he play year one at LDE?

Oweh is a guy with traits that you need to coach up.

He's going to start off better against the run.

As a pass-rusher he will bend the arc but right now he has no clue what he is doing with his hands or what pass-rush moves to employ.