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Chiefshrink 09-01-2014 01:52 PM
Phillip Gaines
 
I haven't had a chance to thoroughly watch the first 3 pre-season games but did watch all of the GB game. Gaines played horrible against 2nd and 3rd string offenses of GB. Has he played this bad all pre-season ? What is your take on the kid so far ?

Bowser 09-01-2014 01:53 PM
Yes, he played that bad all preseason.

he has a long, long way to go.

Silock 09-01-2014 01:53 PM
My take is **** Dorsey for putting us in a position to rely on this guy as a rookie.

He may come good, he may not. But **** Dorsey.

The Franchise 09-01-2014 01:53 PM
He's raw but we already knew that when he was drafted.

BlackHelicopters 09-01-2014 01:54 PM
#****dorsey

The Franchise 09-01-2014 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silock (Post 10870753)
My take is **** Dorsey for putting us in a position to rely on this guy as a rookie.

He may come good, he may not. But **** Dorsey.
Relying on him for what exactly? Cooper and Smith are your starters. Parker and Owens will more than likely be your NB and dime. Gaines won't see a lot of playing time except on STs.

OldSchool 09-01-2014 01:56 PM
He plays like he should have been picked on day 3, not day 2. He really has a long way to go before he can contribute on a regular basis. He has shown flashes, just terribly inconsistent and looks lost a lot of times.

Silock 09-01-2014 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestilence (Post 10870759)
Relying on him for what exactly? Cooper and Smith are your starters. Parker and Owens will more than likely be your NB and dime. Gaines won't see a lot of playing time except on STs.
I bet he sees the field on defense quite a lot. Because the others you listed all suck, as well.

Mr. Laz 09-01-2014 01:57 PM
He was drafted to replace Flowers to free up the money. That's why they played him so much in the preseason.

Doesn't look like he's ready

Fail on the draft?
Fail on the coaching?

New World Order 09-01-2014 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silock (Post 10870753)
My take is **** Dorsey for putting us in a position to rely on this guy as a rookie.

He may come good, he may not. But **** Dorsey.

http://resources.news.com.au/files/2...-nicholson.gif

Titty Meat 09-01-2014 01:58 PM
He sucks

Chiefshrink 09-01-2014 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser (Post 10870752)
Yes, he played that bad all preseason.

he has a long, long way to go.
That's not good IF you are a 3rd pick IMO. 3rd CB's should be back up at minimum if not pushing for the starting job by mid-season of your rookie year IMO. To your point and Pest's he doesn't even play at a back up level yet.:doh!:

Chiefshrink 09-01-2014 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silock (Post 10870764)
I bet he sees the field on defense quite a lot. Because the others you listed all suck, as well.
Manning is licking his chops and will probably set a new NFL record for TDs in one game in the 2nd week of this season I'm afraid.:banghead:

Dave Lane 09-01-2014 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchool (Post 10870763)
He plays like he should have been a UDFA. He really has a long way to go before he can contribute on a regular basis. He has shown flashes, just terribly inconsistent and looks lost a lot of times.
FYP

ShortRoundChief 09-01-2014 02:02 PM
No Mormon/ No Good

BlackHelicopters 09-01-2014 02:02 PM
Trust Dorsey

jd1020 09-01-2014 02:06 PM
At least he ran fast at the combine!

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6...9804970c-600wi

Chiefshrink 09-01-2014 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 10870795)
At least he ran fast at the combine!

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6...9804970c-600wi
:thumb:

ShortRoundChief 09-01-2014 02:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchool (Post 10870763)
He plays like he should have been picked on day 3, not day 2. He really has a long way to go before he can contribute on a regular basis. He has shown flashes, just terribly inconsistent and looks lost a lot of times.
Sounds like the first girl who gave me head back in my teenage years.

Fret not, she picked it up relatively quickly so maybe the same will happen here.

Icon 09-01-2014 02:17 PM
I was thrilled to see Pioli be given the boot but Dorsey hasn't impressed me at all with his drafting skills.

Chiefshrink 09-01-2014 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon (Post 10870825)
I was thrilled to see Pioli be given the boot but Dorsey hasn't impressed me at all with his drafting skills.
As elusive stated 'Trust Dorsey' !!:thumb:

New World Order 09-01-2014 02:27 PM
It's okay guys. The true fans say give him at least 5-7 years to bloom. Then and only then we can judge accordingly.

staylor26 09-01-2014 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by New World Order (Post 10870848)
It's okay guys. The true fans say give him at least 5-7 years to bloom. Then and only then we can judge accordingly.
Waiting 5-7 years is just as ****ing stupid as giving up on a guy before his rookie season even started.

In58men 09-01-2014 02:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by New World Order (Post 10870848)
It's okay guys. The true fans say give him at least 5-7 years to bloom. Then and only then we can judge accordingly.
ROFL


Where you at Dave?

Deberg_1990 09-01-2014 02:45 PM
I don't understand how fans think that every draft pick should be an automatic star from the start? This guy was considered raw by nearly everyone. It takes time for most lower round guys.

RealSNR 09-01-2014 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silock (Post 10870753)
My take is **** Dorsey for putting us in a position to rely on this guy as a rookie.

He may come good, he may not. But **** Dorsey.
Barring injury, we're not going to rely on shit from this guy.

He'll be the 5th CB on the depth chart.

Pasta Little Brioni 09-01-2014 02:55 PM
Everyone sucks/CP

jd1020 09-01-2014 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball (Post 10870899)
Everyone sucks/CP
Welcome to reality /PGM

Mav 09-01-2014 03:04 PM
Justin Gilbert had looked terrible as well. These rules have screwed these corners.

OldSchool 09-01-2014 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavericks Ace (Post 10870925)
Justin Gilbert had looked terrible as well. These rules have screwed these corners.
Yup. Ironically, only the Seahawks still look good. I don't think that their starters got a single defensive holding, illegal contact, or PI called on them this pre-season.

milkman 09-01-2014 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 10870886)
I don't understand how fans think that every draft pick should be an automatic star from the start? This guy was considered raw by nearly everyone. It takes time for most lower round guys.
When did the third round become a lower round?

milkman 09-01-2014 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchool (Post 10870933)
Yup. Ironically, only the Seahawks still look good. I don't think that their starters got a single defensive holding, illegal contact, or PI called on them this pre-season.
People just don't get it.

They aren't good because they play physical.
They are good because they solid fundamentallly, both in coverage and tackling.

gblowfish 09-01-2014 03:32 PM
Other teams will throw right at him when the need to Gaines some yards.




Heh....

chiefzilla1501 09-01-2014 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by New World Order (Post 10870848)
It's okay guys. The true fans say give him at least 5-7 years to bloom. Then and only then we can judge accordingly.
5-7 years?

Can we at least stop making judgments after a few preseason games? I think anybody who saw the pick after the draft thought Gaines would be at least a 1-year project. But for a high positional value guy, yeah, 1-2 years for a guy not drafted in the first round is fair.

OldSchool 09-01-2014 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 10870987)
People just don't get it.

They aren't good because they play physical.
They are good because they solid fundamentallly, both in coverage and tackling.
Yup, I love watching them play defense. It's the best that I've seen in a while. The only one on that team that really grabbed at WRs was Browner because of his stiff hips and slow feet, now he's gone. I really wish that we would use the same scheme that they have.

staylor26 09-01-2014 03:57 PM
I really think people are going to be eating crow on Gaines. He was my #4 CB and I loved the pick, but it was apparent he would need at least a year of NFL coaching and an offseason to get bigger/stronger to be ready to start. I tried to tell one of you about Kelce, but I was laughed at then too.

chiefzilla1501 09-01-2014 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Laz (Post 10870767)
He was drafted to replace Flowers to free up the money. That's why they played him so much in the preseason.

Doesn't look like he's ready

Fail on the draft?
Fail on the coaching?
Or maybe we need to just stop treating this year like our #1 goal is to win now. Cutting Flowers is a good move for the long-term. I can understand the argument that we should just rip the band-aid right off. But I also think this team can be competitive as soon as next year, if our picks pan out. Gaines won't be much worse than Cooper was last year and I think it was absolutely worth it to get Cooper some reps over there. Hopefully Gaines will show the same kind of growth, as I think Cooper will be okay this year.

Sandy Vagina 09-01-2014 04:07 PM
Gaines stood out the most in week 4 and not in a good way. Bottom line on him.. he has a few things working for him. He is tall, fast, and has a great work ethic.

In terms of technique and awareness, he is not ready to step in today, and I really hope he doesn't need to. No, this isn't an assessment you want to learn about your 3rd rd pick. However.. Gaines was selected for his potential in the near future. Very likely hand-picked to develop and then replace Sean Smith and his bloated contract for 2015.

Mr. Laz 09-01-2014 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 10871039)
Or maybe we need to just stop treating this year like our #1 goal is to win now. Cutting Flowers is a good move for the long-term. I can understand the argument that we should just rip the band-aid right off. But I also think this team can be competitive as soon as next year, if our picks pan out. Gaines won't be much worse than Cooper was last year and I think it was absolutely worth it to get Cooper some reps over there. Hopefully Gaines will show the same kind of growth, as I think Cooper will be okay this year.
I think it's safe to say that winning this year is not the priority.


we can agree on that.


You're just ok with that ... i'm not

Saccopoo 09-01-2014 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 10871036)
I really think people are going to be eating crow on Gaines. He was my #4 CB and I loved the pick, but it was apparent he would need at least a year of NFL coaching and an offseason to get bigger/stronger to be ready to start. I tried to tell one of you about Kelce, but I was laughed at then too.
I don't know man...there were a lot of solid CB prospect available when we picked Phil Gaines. Keith McGill, Dontae Johnson, Nevin Lawson, Marqueston Huff, Pierre Desir...all of whom ended up making the 53 man rosters of their respective teams. I hope you're right, but I think I would have much rather had Donte Moncrief in the third and then either Johnson or Lawson in the fourth (or David Yankey or Cyril Richardson for the sink hole OG spot that we continue to try to shovel asphalt into).

staylor26 09-01-2014 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 10871085)
I don't know man...there were a lot of solid CB prospect available when we picked Phil Gaines. Keith McGill, Dontae Johnson, Nevin Lawson, Marqueston Huff, Pierre Desir...all of whom ended up making the 53 man rosters of their respective teams. I hope you're right, but I think I would have much rather had Donte Moncrief in the third and then either Johnson or Lawson in the fourth (or David Yankey or Cyril Richardson for the sink hole OG spot that we continue to try to shovel asphalt into).
Gaines ceiling is higher than every one of those guys IMO.

Direckshun 09-01-2014 04:36 PM
Zilla, you're committing the same error here as you were with Eric Fisher.

I can speak for most fans when I say that we expect Phillip Gaines and Eric Fisher to take some time.

What's troubling is that they aren't looking like talented, raw athletes needing development (I.e. Dee Ford), they look like complete catastrophes (I.e. Turk McBride). There is a difference.

'Hamas' Jenkins 09-01-2014 04:59 PM
He ****ing sucks. Maybe he eventually learns to use his straight line speed, but right now he looks like a total scrub with no place on an NFL roster.

Saccopoo 09-01-2014 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 10871133)
Zilla, you're committing the same error here as you were with Eric Fisher.

I can speak for most fans when I say that we expect Phillip Gaines and Eric Fisher to take some time.

What's troubling is that they aren't looking like talented, raw athletes needing development (I.e. Dee Ford), they look like complete catastrophes (I.e. Turk McBride). There is a difference.
I'd argue that Ford has looked worse than either Fisher or Gaines at the same stage. Absolutely lost on defense.

Blind dog in a meat market to this point.

OldSchool 09-01-2014 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 10871285)
I'd argue that Ford has looked worse than either Fisher or Gaines at the same stage. Absolutely lost on defense.

Blind dog in a meat market to this point.
Ford does concern me. For all of his talk about how he tries to master technique and doesn't just rely on his physical skills, I sure didn't see it out there. Josh Martin looked just as good if not better out there.

KCChiefsfan1234 09-01-2014 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 10871036)
I really think people are going to be eating crow on Gaines. He was my #4 CB and I loved the pick, but it was apparent he would need at least a year of NFL coaching and an offseason to get bigger/stronger to be ready to start. I tried to tell one of you about Kelce, but I was laughed at then too.
I agree with you. He needs a year to develop. Mark my words, he will be a good corner in the future. Many of the first and second rounders have looked bad as well. This is new not only for the speed of the game but with the changes in the rules. Gaines played very well in the first game. Go watch the film. Yes he had a rough game against the Packers but you all really need to go look at the fact that he played more than anyone else that night and he played 2 special teams as well as both outside CBs and inside. Two of the penalties were total bull s### Give the kid a break.

chiefzilla1501 09-01-2014 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Laz (Post 10871062)
I think it's safe to say that winning this year is not the priority.


we can agree on that.


You're just ok with that ... i'm not
I am okay with the approach. The execution... We will see, but for a solution reliant on drafting and value pickups, Dorseys pickups better start shaping the **** up.

We devalued the oline. Focused on high positional value guys in the draft this year. Shredded old veteran contracts. Cleaned up the cap. In theory this is a good way to do it. But so far his picks have been shit. But there's still time for the picks to shape up so we will see.

Sandy Vagina 09-01-2014 05:47 PM
Yeah, he really is like a Marcus Cooper.. just a year behind in development. Neither are remarkable yet, but both have the skills to develop into quality starters.

Deberg_1990 09-01-2014 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 10870981)
When did the third round become a lower round?
ok, a middle round then. Go look at how many 3rd rounder become stars. Id guess not many.


Point is, Chiefs fans expectations are set way too high. A team is lucky to hit on 2 or 3 guys each draft. Thats a good draft. 4 guys is exceptional. Not every player is going to be good,. and it expecting that is unrealistic.

milkman 09-01-2014 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 10871421)
ok, a middle round then. Go look at how many 3rd rounder become stars. Id guess not many.
Jamal Charles.

Will Shields.

That San Diego WR last year whose name escapes at the moment.

But we aren't talking about stars.

3rd round picks should be guys that can contribute now.

Deberg_1990 09-01-2014 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 10871433)
3rd round picks should be guys that can contribute now.
Should be? Who wrote this rule? It doesnt have to be that way.

Deberg_1990 09-01-2014 06:14 PM
even the most successful teams in the league have numerous failed draft picks.

chiefzilla1501 09-01-2014 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 10871133)
Zilla, you're committing the same error here as you were with Eric Fisher.

I can speak for most fans when I say that we expect Phillip Gaines and Eric Fisher to take some time.
At least on CP, you're wrong. There are people who have been calling these guys busts as soon as they took preseason snaps.

I hate the Fisher pick. Despised it from day 1. But I know he's limited right now by lack of experience and a hurt shoulder. Those aren't excuses. Those are legit reasons. But CP is so black and white sometimes, anything positive about a polarizing player is criticized as being an apologist. I don't think Fisher will be a great player but I know he needs time, bulk, and two shoulders. I don't know what we have in Gaines, but I sure as shit didn't expect him to be ready by game 1. Even with Sorensen... I don't think highly of him at all, but we have people calling him a disaster when he hasn't even breathed a single regular season second in the NFL. I've been really consistent about giving guys 1-2 years to really show what they have. And I refuse to dismiss someone as completely terrible if there are situational factors affecting their performance.

Quote:
What's troubling is that they aren't looking like talented, raw athletes needing development (I.e. Dee Ford), they look like complete catastrophes (I.e. Turk McBride). There is a difference.
In fairness, Poe, Cooper, Dorsey, and Knile Davis looked like complete disasters early on. Even Tyson Jackson... turned into an adequate DE but he was a shit show his first season. It's even harder in the modern NFL where we have shortened offseasons for rookies. I'm really concerned about Ford. I worry about Fisher even being a starter 2 years from now. So yeah, I'm concerned about these guys, but I'm also going to give them time to work some stuff out. Now Ford? That feels a lot different. Guy came from a competitive college program -- I don't bring him up because as a first round pick who was drafted to be ready right away, he doesn't look the part. That's different.

tecumseh 09-01-2014 06:54 PM
That's great that Cooper and Gaines have the physical tools to be good CB's IN A YEAR OR TWO. Meanwhile, the Chiefs have a handful of guys that are potential probowlers. Another handful that are solid. The rest are succkage or in development. How about puting together a complete team.

Mav 09-01-2014 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 10871085)
I don't know man...there were a lot of solid CB prospect available when we picked Phil Gaines. Keith McGill, Dontae Johnson, Nevin Lawson, Marqueston Huff, Pierre Desir...all of whom ended up making the 53 man rosters of their respective teams. I hope you're right, but I think I would have much rather had Donte Moncrief in the third and then either Johnson or Lawson in the fourth (or David Yankey or Cyril Richardson for the sink hole OG spot that we continue to try to shovel asphalt into).
Pierre Desir has looked like absolute shit.

chiefzilla1501 09-01-2014 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tecumseh (Post 10871613)
That's great that Cooper and Gaines have the physical tools to be good CB's IN A YEAR OR TWO. Meanwhile, the Chiefs have a handful of guys that are potential probowlers. Another handful that are solid. The rest are succkage or in development. How about puting together a complete team.
That's the approach Scott Pioli took. He took a lot of layups. Way too many offensive linemen in the first 3 rounds. Nickel corners. 5-techniques. Safety in the top 10. These guys were ready to help out right away. They were safe picks who could contribute right away.

But safe picks only work if you're building around an elite QB. If you're building around another type of QB, you want to build your team around playmakers. I would rather have a few playmakers than a bunch of safe guys. Playmakers come with risk especially after the first round. What Dorsey did in 2013 was safe. And I hated it. The approach we took this year is the right one and I hope one we continue to make. But again, the approach only works if you execute. I'm really nervous about our draft picks the past 2 years.

aturnis 09-01-2014 09:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 10871507)
At least on CP, you're wrong. There are people who have been calling these guys busts as soon as they took preseason snaps.

I hate the Fisher pick. Despised it from day 1. But I know he's limited right now by lack of experience and a hurt shoulder. Those aren't excuses. Those are legit reasons. But CP is so black and white sometimes, anything positive about a polarizing player is criticized as being an apologist. I don't think Fisher will be a great player but I know he needs time, bulk, and two shoulders. I don't know what we have in Gaines, but I sure as shit didn't expect him to be ready by game 1. Even with Sorensen... I don't think highly of him at all, but we have people calling him a disaster when he hasn't even breathed a single regular season second in the NFL. I've been really consistent about giving guys 1-2 years to really show what they have. And I refuse to dismiss someone as completely terrible if there are situational factors affecting their performance.


In fairness, Poe, Cooper, Dorsey, and Knile Davis looked like complete disasters early on. Even Tyson Jackson... turned into an adequate DE but he was a shit show his first season. It's even harder in the modern NFL where we have shortened offseasons for rookies. I'm really concerned about Ford. I worry about Fisher even being a starter 2 years from now. So yeah, I'm concerned about these guys, but I'm also going to give them time to work some stuff out. Now Ford? That feels a lot different. Guy came from a competitive college program -- I don't bring him up because as a first round pick who was drafted to be ready right away, he doesn't look the part. That's different.
Ford was drafted to be ready right away? Did someone inform Hali and Houston one of them has got to go?

As for Sorensen, you're really defending the guy who provided more tape of himself chasing receivers into the endzone then doing anything else?

Bowser 09-01-2014 09:49 PM
Keenan Allen is the receiver you couldn't think of. Guy is a bad ass.

chiefzilla1501 09-01-2014 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aturnis (Post 10872362)
Ford was drafted to be ready right away? Did someone inform Hali and Houston one of them has got to go?

As for Sorensen, you're really defending the guy who provided more tape of himself chasing receivers into the endzone then doing anything else?
As a first round pick from a major college program, he should be a lot more NFL ready. I get the concern there, but I'm not even close to ready to saying we know anything at all about him yet.

Sorensen... I'm not even defending the guy. We have people calling him completely terrible when he's a rookie who hasn't even seen (let alone played) a single snap of regular season football. And people flipping out about picking him over a guy who hasn't even been picked up by any other team.

OldSchool 09-01-2014 09:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser (Post 10872373)
Keenan Allen is the receiver you couldn't think of. Guy is a bad ass.
Yup, he was even better in the NFL than he was at Cal. I guess our crapfest QBs really were holding him back, lol.

Dave Lane 09-01-2014 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 10871036)
I really think people are going to be eating crow on Gaines. He was my #4 CB and I loved the pick, but it was apparent he would need at least a year of NFL coaching and an offseason to get bigger/stronger to be ready to start. I tried to tell one of you about Kelce, but I was laughed at then too.
Can I subscribe to your newsletter?

OldSchool 09-01-2014 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 10872381)
As a first round pick from a major college program, he should be a lot more NFL ready. I get the concern there, but I'm not even close to ready to saying we know anything at all about him yet.

Sorensen... I'm not even defending the guy. We have people calling him completely terrible when he's a rookie who hasn't even seen (let alone played) a single snap of regular season football. And people flipping out about picking him over a guy who hasn't even been picked up by any other team.
My problem with Ford is that he isn't very young for a rookie, he's already 23 years old and still looks really raw. He also wasn't very productive until his 5th year, and even then he wasn't an "out of this world" talent on the field. He looked phenomenal at the Senior Bowl because it was very easy to anticipate the snap count, so he always got a jump on his opponent.

baitism 09-01-2014 10:08 PM
Should have drafted EJ Gaines. Who drafts a scrub from Rice?

aturnis 09-01-2014 10:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 10872381)
As a first round pick from a major college program, he should be a lot more NFL ready. I get the concern there, but I'm not even close to ready to saying we know anything at all about him yet.

Sorensen... I'm not even defending the guy. We have people calling him completely terrible when he's a rookie who hasn't even seen (let alone played) a single snap of regular season football. And people flipping out about picking him over a guy who hasn't even been picked up by any other team.
Just saying, I think it was obvious to everyone we took Ford in the 1st based on his potential b/c we had the ability to allow him to develop.

As for Sorensen, what about getting BURNED by 2nd, 3rd stringers, and guys selling insurance starting tomorrow inspires you to his future against real NFL talent? As for bashing on Bronson, have any of the Chiefs cuts been picked up?

chiefzilla1501 09-01-2014 10:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aturnis (Post 10872425)
Just saying, I think it was obvious to everyone we took Ford in the 1st based on his potential b/c we had the ability to allow him to develop.
Yes, every rookie deserves time. First rounders have less of a luxury, but they deserve time nonetheless.

Quote:
As for Sorensen, what about getting BURNED by 2nd, 3rd stringers, and guys selling insurance starting tomorrow inspires you to his future against real NFL talent? As for bashing on Bronson, have any of the Chiefs cuts been picked up?
I have not even said Sorensen is that good. I have not bashed Bronson one bit. I am responding to the people outraged that the Chiefs passed on Bronson, a guy who easily cleared waivers. I certainly hope that a few meaningless preseason games aren't the only way we judge a rookie like Sorensen. I don't have high hopes for him. But he at least deserves a chance to at least learn and grow before we suggest he's already reached his ceiling.

mikey23545 09-01-2014 11:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aturnis (Post 10872425)
Just saying, I think it was obvious to everyone we took Ford in the 1st based on his potential b/c we had the ability to allow him to develop.

As for Sorensen, what about getting BURNED by 2nd, 3rd stringers, and guys selling insurance starting tomorrow inspires you to his future against real NFL talent? As for bashing on Bronson, have any of the Chiefs cuts been picked up?
Oh, for ****s sake.

Sorenson and Bronson are both UDFAs...how far along were they supposed to be at this point?

OldSchool 09-02-2014 12:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey23545 (Post 10872540)
Oh, for ****s sake.

Sorenson and Bronson are both UDFAs...how far along were they supposed to be at this point?
People are pissed about Sorensen because, while Bronson actually made plays, Sorensen looked like a complete waste of space out there.

htismaqe 09-02-2014 05:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchool (Post 10872594)
People are pissed about Sorensen because, while Bronson actually made plays, Sorensen looked like a complete waste of space out there.
Sorenson actually has a pedigree that is worth investing in.

Bronson is a training camp hero. This fan base LOVES those...

Chiefnj2 09-02-2014 05:56 AM
That computer program that Dorsey uses over-values combine results and underwear olympics. Here was Gaines' breakdown from nfl.com

Analysis
StrengthsNice length. Terrific timed speed, blazing sub-4.4 times at the combine. Can be deployed in zone coverage. Plays the pocket. Good production on the ball, with 35 passes defended the last two seasons. Tough and competitive. Is hardworking and well respected by coaches and teammates. Recorded second-quickest three-cone drill among cornerbacks at the combine (6.62 seconds).

WeaknessesDurability is a concern. Has been dinged up. Underdeveloped and underpowered. Does not play to timed speed. Not equipped to handle man-to-man responsibility. Poor run supporter and tackler. Does not project as a core special-teams player. Tweener traits.


Draft ProjectionRounds 4-5
Bottom LineLean, active zone corner whose ball skills will have to carry him. Could earn a roster spot on pure measurables but lacks desirable functional speed, strength and physicality.

Rausch 09-02-2014 06:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 10870886)
I don't understand how fans think that every draft pick should be an automatic star from the start? This guy was considered raw by nearly everyone. It takes time for most lower round guys.
Quote:
Early in Darqueze Dennard's first training camp, NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport noted that the Cincinnati Bengals' first-round cornerback has shown better than advertised ball skills.

Coach Marvin Lewis raised the stakes on Thursday, crediting the former Michigan State star as "the best rookie corner I've seen," per Dan Hoard, the radio voice of the Bengals.

That's high praise considering two of Lewis' teams drafted first-round cornerbacks in back-to-back years.

As Ravens defensive coordinator, Lewis coached Duane Starks (No. 10 overall, 1998) and Chris McAlister (No. 10 overall, 1999). As Bengals head coach, he tutored a pair of decorated corners in Johnathan Joseph (No. 24, 2006) and Leon Hall (No. 18, 2007).

"If he stays on this path," veteran cornerback Terence Newman said of Dennard, via ESPN.com, "the sky's the limit for him."

The Bengals don't plan to start Dennard "right off the bat," according to Hoard, but he will see plenty of snaps in nickel and dime packages.
That's right, that's the corner we passed on to take a b/u one dimensional pass rusher. He was gone the very next pick...

ILChief 09-02-2014 06:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silock (Post 10870753)
My take is **** Dorsey for putting us in a position to rely on this guy as a rookie.

He may come good, he may not. But **** Dorsey.
I don't know how much we are relying on him as a 5th CB

Chiefnj2 09-02-2014 06:15 AM
Gaines will be the 4th or 5th CB (barring injury). Not a big deal, however, you'd expect he would have had better coverage on 3rd stringers in the preseason. He was losing battles to guys who are out of the NFL today.

chiefzilla1501 09-02-2014 06:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 10872661)
That computer program that Dorsey uses over-values combine results and underwear olympics. Here was Gaines' breakdown from nfl.com

Analysis
StrengthsNice length. Terrific timed speed, blazing sub-4.4 times at the combine. Can be deployed in zone coverage. Plays the pocket. Good production on the ball, with 35 passes defended the last two seasons. Tough and competitive. Is hardworking and well respected by coaches and teammates. Recorded second-quickest three-cone drill among cornerbacks at the combine (6.62 seconds).

WeaknessesDurability is a concern. Has been dinged up. Underdeveloped and underpowered. Does not play to timed speed. Not equipped to handle man-to-man responsibility. Poor run supporter and tackler. Does not project as a core special-teams player. Tweener traits.


Draft ProjectionRounds 4-5
Bottom LineLean, active zone corner whose ball skills will have to carry him. Could earn a roster spot on pure measurables but lacks desirable functional speed, strength and physicality.
In the third round, your option is to go for underwear champs or to go for either good players at less important positions or safe picks who are average but have no ceiling. I'm glad we're finally taking gambles. This was a good pick. I don't care if he pans out or not.

Easy 6 09-02-2014 07:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 10872657)
Sorenson actually has a pedigree that is worth investing in.

Bronson is a training camp hero. This fan base LOVES those...
You just dont get it, MAN... the dude is white, he cant POSSIBLY be any good.

Mav 09-02-2014 07:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rausch (Post 10872663)
That's right, that's the corner we passed on to take a b/u one dimensional pass rusher. He was gone the very next pick...
That's who I wanted.

MahiMike 09-02-2014 08:02 AM
He's a kid. Give him some time.

Saccopoo 09-02-2014 08:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 10872676)
In the third round, your option is to go for underwear champs or to go for either good players at less important positions or safe picks who are average but have no ceiling. I'm glad we're finally taking gambles. This was a good pick. I don't care if he pans out or not.
There was a lot of guys still on the board that could have been had with our fourth round pick that I personally felt were better than Gaines.

Dontae Johnson, Nevin Lawson, Pierre Desir.

I think it was a reach. Not a huge one, but there were a lot of guys who people had rated higher still on the board.

Revisionist history, but how the draft and our free agency ended up, I would have had the following as my draft picks:

1. Darqueze Dennard, CB; Michigan State
3. Donte Moncrief, WR; Ole Miss
4. Cyril Richardson, OL; Baylor
5. Ryan Carrethers, DT; Arkansas State
6. Jeff Janis, WR; Saginaw State
6. Trevor Reilly, LB; Utah

And Albert Wilson and Dan Sorensen would have been my priority UDFA's. So at least Dorsey and I agreed on that.

I never expected Dennard to be on the board when we picked as I felt he was actually the best shut down corner in the draft.

Sandy Vagina 09-02-2014 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 10872789)
There was a lot of guys still on the board that could have been had with our fourth round pick that I personally felt were better than Gaines.

Dontae Johnson, Nevin Lawson, Pierre Desir.

I think it was a reach. Not a huge one, but there were a lot of guys who people had rated higher still on the board.

Revisionist history, but how the draft and our free agency ended up, I would have had the following as my draft picks:

1. Darqueze Dennard, CB; Michigan State
3. Donte Moncrief, WR; Ole Miss
4. Cyril Richardson, OL; Baylor
5. Ryan Carrethers, DT; Arkansas State
6. Jeff Janis, WR; Saginaw State
6. Trevor Reilly, LB; Utah

And Albert Wilson and Dan Sorensen would have been my priority UDFA's. So at least Dorsey and I agreed on that.

I never expected Dennard to be on the board when we picked as I felt he was actually the best shut down corner in the draft.
I'd have really liked your draft... but I don't think those 3 above were as good as Gaines... and I'd be more worried about the pass rush if Hali and/or Houston got injured again.

Direckshun 09-02-2014 09:05 AM
The way the board fell, I would have taken Bridgewater at 23.

I would have thought reeeeeally hard about Ra'Shede Hageman.

In the third, I probably would have gone WR Donte Moncrief or WR Bruce Ellington. Maaaaaaaaybe a corner. But probably WR.

In the 4th, I would probably have taken OG Dakota Dozier or CB Pierre Desir.

In the 5th, I would have taken CB/S Antone Exum or WR Jared Abbrederis.

In the 6th, I would have taken DT Daniel McCullers and RB Marion Grice.

You tell me:

1. QB Teddy Bridgewater
3. WR Donte Moncrief
4. OG Dakota Dozier
5. CB/S Antone Exum
6. NT Daniel McCullers
6. RB Marion Grice

RunKC 09-02-2014 09:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 10872789)
There was a lot of guys still on the board that could have been had with our fourth round pick that I personally felt were better than Gaines.

Dontae Johnson, Nevin Lawson, Pierre Desir.

I think it was a reach. Not a huge one, but there were a lot of guys who people had rated higher still on the board.

Revisionist history, but how the draft and our free agency ended up, I would have had the following as my draft picks:

1. Darqueze Dennard, CB; Michigan State
3. Donte Moncrief, WR; Ole Miss
4. Cyril Richardson, OL; Baylor
5. Ryan Carrethers, DT; Arkansas State
6. Jeff Janis, WR; Saginaw State
6. Trevor Reilly, LB; Utah

And Albert Wilson and Dan Sorensen would have been my priority UDFA's. So at least Dorsey and I agreed on that.

I never expected Dennard to be on the board when we picked as I felt he was actually the best shut down corner in the draft.
Not a chance. In this new league I'm not taking slow CB's like Dennard and Desir. Gaines was among the fastest/quickest players at the draft.
He's got the long frame to help get his hands in the path of the ball and the athletic ability to stay with the fastest receivers.

Gaines struggled against the Packers bc of his size. He needs to add at least 10 lbs of strength next offseason. He's learning the position well, but needs that strength at the LOS.


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