***Official 2014 STL Cardinals thread part II***
 

Original thread was getting to large for the board

2011 WS Championship
2012 one win from another WS
2013 two wins from another WS title
2014 Central Division title and NLCS series win (so far)

This is a franchise that has made the postseason 10 times in the last 14 seasons.

Only 1 losing season since 2000.

Reached the World Series 4 times since 2004 and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005.

Our new Manager has more post season experience than any other manager in baseball, except the Giants manager.

Made the NLCS 8 times

Three million attendance? Take it to the bank.

60 post season wins since 2004. 20+ wins more than any other team.

First.

?? Most threads go over 5k posts before slowing down. The old thread wasn't even halfway there.

If we trade for Price while having the second worst offense in baseball I might blow my ****ing brains out.

AC says its 3K now. Just being pro-active. We wouldn't have made to 5K in the orginal one anyway.

Yeah, I started killing any slow thread until I found it was likely the Royals thread's fault.

Plus, it was a Cardinals thread... so I mean, who gives a shit anyway? :D

Yup. Better safe than sorry on thread size at this point with the season almost on us.

BRC knows what's up, that's why he's Varsity dammit!

It was the Tampa Bay Rays beat writer that tweeted the Cardinals are still interested but he did specifically state the info came from non Rays personnel.

Put me in coach!!!

Your just not varsity material.:p

You guys want to continue on with the original thread or move on to this one?

The old one can serve as a Viking funeral for Torty Craig. Burn it and mourn from a distance.

Doesnt matter to me.

Reading the article about the trade on the Post's websight makes me think its possible Matheny wont be around much longer at the current pace.

Sounds like he had no input on the trade and sounds like Mo traded Craig because Matheny kept playing him over Oscar.

It also sounds like Matheny sounds betrayed a bit.

No worries, its Detroit.
By Jeff Todd [July 31, 2014 at 2:54pm CDT]
The Tigers have agreed to acquire David Price from the Rays, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. The deal is a three-way trade between the Tigers, Rays, and Mariners.

Austin Jackson and Drew Smyly will go to the Mariners, with Nick Franklin heading to Tampa.

Jesus Christ, that's a ****ing hijacking. The Rays let him go for nothing. Franklin has looked like shit his entire big league career.

Thats a varsity post. I'm going to have to talk to Rainman about a promotion.:LOL:

OT with a 2 run jack.

There has to be more to this.

Craig who?LMAO

We could have easily done better than Nick Franklin and still not mortgaged the future.

Oscar hits a two-run jack and hunk of shit Shelby Miller gives up two solo jacks in the bottom of the inning. Top of the rotation stuff my ass.

He is a head case normally and I read today that he and Joe Kelley were best men in each others weddings so I am surprised he was even able to will himself to pitch today.

Wifes are best friends too. Saw a piece on Fox sports Midwest about how close they are.

The clubhouse is just going to have to move on. They have done nothing to warrant a don't touch anyone, we are rolling along great approach.

Be professionals and deal with it. It's a business.

If you don't want your best buds to be traded, then everyone needs to perform.

Wonder how AJ and Lackey got along in Boston?

Keith Law's reaction of the trade:

With Michael Wacha potentially out for the season, the Cardinals needed a better starter than Justin Masterson to shore up their rotation. John Lackey fits the bill, especially because they didn't have to dip into their farm system to acquire him. To get Lackey, the Cardinals only had to trade two surplus assets.

After beginning his Boston career in miserable fashion, Lackey has been solid the past two seasons for the Sox. He'd be a valuable addition no matter what. But his value is significantly higher thanks to a clause in his incentive-laden contract that gave the Red Sox an extra year on the cheap if he missed more than a year with an elbow injury. As such, the big righty is due to make just $500,000 next season. He'll provide the Cardinals with a useful arm for an incredibly favorable price.

When healthy, Lackey is a consistent 3-plus WAR starter. He's not what he was in his mid-20s in Anaheim but is still good for 180 better-than-solid innings a year.

He's actually on pace to toss 200 frames this season. If he can do that again next year, he'll be among the best values in baseball. Slide him in with Adam Wainwright, Lance Lynn, Shelby Miller and Wacha, and the Cardinals have an extremely strong rotation for 2015.

The Cardinals also get high-A lefty Corey Littrell, who offers a fringe-average fastball with a plus change and might develop into a fifth starter-type.

Trading Craig also opens up playing time for top prospect Oscar Taveras, a high-impact left-handed hitter who needs every-day at-bats to continue his development. He has been one of my top five prospects the past two offseasons, as he brings huge raw power and plate coverage that's reminiscent of a young Vladimir Guerrero. Clearing up playing time for him provides huge ancillary value in this deal.

In exchange for the year-plus of Lackey's services, the Red Sox continue the trend they started in the Lester deal, adding two major league players who might help them compete in 2015. Joe Kelly was in St. Louis' rotation but may profile better as a reliever; he's a good ground-ball guy, but has very little deception in his delivery thanks to a long arm action. Though his delivery is shorter than it was in college, he still gives up a lot of hard contact, often in the form of line drives and home runs. He's a real player development success story, a third-rounder who improved dramatically after draft day, but the Red Sox probably will need someone better for the back of their rotation.

Allen Craig's 2013 season may have set unreasonable expectations, but it's hard to fathom he's going to remain as bad as he has been in 2014, especially with his .122/.204/.204 July dragging him down even further. He's a polished hitter with a career .330 BABIP. I'd bet on at least a .280/.330/.460 bounce-back year next season if he's healthy.

But it's unclear where he fits for the Sox. His best position is first base, which is occupied by Mike Napoli until 2016. Craig would be a liability in either outfield corner -- right field because of its size and dimensions, and left because of the wall.

Craig is due only $25.5 million over the next three years. So even if he gets back to only a 2-WAR level, he'll be a good value. If he's still limited by the Lisfranc fracture he suffered in his foot last year, perhaps another offseason of rest will help restore his old production.

Was Lackey worth more than this, given his salary for next year? Assuming he's true to his word and won't hold out or demand an extension, I think he was, yes. He's worth $15-20 million for a full season on the open market. His thrifty contract makes him incredibly valuable for one year, perhaps even valuable enough that his team deserved a higher-impact player than either Craig or Kelly.

Bob nightengale from USA Today is reporting that the Cardinals were unhappy with Craig due to his not wanting to change anything in his swing or approach at the plate during his slump. Absolutely refused to change or try anything different.

Yet Matheny refused to put him on the bench.

I have no doubt someone told him that in the Cardinals organization. But,This reminds of post nfl draft bs put out by the front office. Trying to justify their decisions.

Good point.

Losing Craig stings a bit from what he has done in the past but can't help thinking he might be damaged goods like Freese. Lackey has been pretty solid since TJ surgery and that $500k team option could play out well. Also has a reputation for being a dick but from what I recall much of that was from his time in Boston when he was pitching poorly with a bad elbow.

This team was missing some attitude. Just got a triple dose of it. Glad Mo finally kicked a little ass.

Mo pretty much just kicked them all in the junk and said wake the **** up.

You have to give it up for Miller. It was his best game in a long time. He made a couple of bad pitches that went year but got it back together. He was moving the ball well all around the zone.:thumb:

I will give him that for sure.

Yep, this team needed to be kicked in the ass. They need to respond like Miller did today. Best buddy gets traded, go out and pitch your best game maybe all year.

Some of Matheny's comments and reactions in the dugout to OT's homer concerns me a little. But they lost a teamate, I'll reserve judgement until they get over the shock and take some inner stock of themselfs. Surely they realize they were heading no where playing like they were. Maybe they will go out and play a hard 9 now.

We need this win in the worst way with Pittsburgh getting lucky as frick again. I thought they were a one year wonder but the bastards bounced back.

I tune in and of course, they have second and third with no outs and can't bring either one home.

Offense showed up tonight. This Brewers team doesn't look they are ready to fade at all. Pitt is coming on. STL is the team that seems to be lacking the fire. We win tomorrow we are only a game off the lead but it does seem that we are so damn inconsistent that we are playing worse than we really are.

Very solid start by Lackey. Fortunate to pull that one out but he kept us in the game. This offense is concerning.

Given that Rosenthal is giving up an astronomical 26% LD rate, the fact that only 2.5% of his flyballs are homers is ridiculously ****ing lucky.

I have no clue on the level of where you are at with baseball stats but it seems to me that some stats are misleading.

Rosenthal will miss location sometimes. But his fastball has a lot of movement on it so hitters don't square it up and hit a home run.

WAR stats have so many higher value than the actual worth and vice versa with over inflated WAR.

Sinkerball pitchers with a better defense will obviously have better stats but he will not be a better pitcher than one with a sub par defense.

I know I've vented about this many times but sending Delcaso up there to pinch hit is asine. So ****ing what he is a lefty and its a RH pitching. Especially with runners in scoring position.

It's not that he is just not producing, its that he looks lost at the plate. Swings way late. He has no business on this team. At least let Robinson or Ellis take some pinch hits.

You could make an argument that he's the worst position player in MLB. Our complete dearth of a bench bat is a sucking chest wound in this roster construction.

I guess all the lame ass grow the **** up pouting Cardinals aren't in St. Louis
http://www.cardsconclave.com/2014/08...medium=twitter

What's scary with Rosenthal is that far fewer batters chase his pitches out of the zone than last year. That means he works deeper counts and has to give hitters more hittable pitches. Combine that with a downturn in velocity and you have more walks and runners.

That umpire is a worthless ****ing shit**** of regurgitated mule ejaculate.

He's the new McClellan. This sack of shit is always in the middle of some controversy.

That was a damn good victory. Since last Friday when they came back to put up a couple of runs when down 7 runs or so in the bottom of the 9th this team is taking on a different look and feel.

It looks like a team thats playing with more passion. Not phoning it in when they get behind or choke in key situations earlier in the game. OT is a good example. Choked with the bases loaded earlier but came back and kept the rally going.

Maybe just maybe Lackey and AJ are bringing a harder edge into the locker room.

When AJ scored late in the game, you could see 110% passion coming from him. Obviously he wants to beat the BoSox more than any other team right now, but I like that kind of passion wherever I can get it.

Three goddamned runs ain't good enough. Passion or not, this team needs to start plating mother****ers.

I agree. Not saying we are gold, just that we are on a better track. We have 2 months to get our act together.

I know it probably had to be done, but it just makes me sick to see Kelly in a Red Sox uniform. He's one of the most likable Cardinal players I can remember.

That's one of the worst calls I've ever seen.

OT is running right on top of the white line. Where is he suppose to run?

The ump has to think he threw up his arm to knock the ball away, But obviously that didn't happen.

This is an offensive Holocaust.

**** Trevor Rosenthal.

I know Rosenthal is leading the league in saves.. But mother ****, he has to be up there in blown saves too.

Borjous had one damn job there and could not do it.

Matheny not using Neshek there was absolutely idiotic. Then not telling Bourjos to run no matter what was just as stupid.

Four runs in two games against a guy named Rubby De La Rosa and Joe Kelly.

This is just a horrible, horrible ****ing offense.

I think Bourjos had the green light, he was just to hesitant to run which is unacceptable since it's the only thing he does well.

Who would have thought that Rosenthal would have blown a tie game? Everyone other than Matheny?

How this team is 8 games above .500 is mind boggling.

And who is the backup 1st baseman?

Probably Cruz.

Joe Kelly matched his longest career start tonight, BTW. This offense...

Maybe someone with some knowledge can tell me what's wrong with Taveras' s feet? Guy looks like a duck waddling when he runs.

I like Taveras but holy shit he is gonna be a liability on defense.

If he bunts him over, OT's hit ties the ballgame.

In Matheny's head he was putting his best against their best. Cespades/Napoli/Ortiz. This was the inning to pitch your best...........except our best is Neshek.

It is obvious he can hit. It looks like he has this long ass swing but the long ass part is his follow through. He gets to the ball quick. Usually doesn't swing at shit. At 22 thats pretty damn good.

But, it doesn't look like bad feet. Looks to me like he is taking horrible angles to balls. He's never going to get a gold glove but taking proper angles would seem to be a skill that can be taught or improved on.

I don't think it is any secret that he has never really put a lot of effort into his defensive skills. He can improve there if he makes it a priority. Will he, who knows. "Manny being Manny" made a pretty fair living just raking and occasionally playing a little d. It depends on what will motivate him.

I think most people don't care about defense as they should. Its that mentality of if he can hit .300/25/100 for 12-14 years who cares about defense. Shit, that's a Hall of Fame career. Not saying he is going to get there but he can easily make some All-Star games. But like you said, it depends on his motivation.

Pujols was always taking extra swings in the cages, taking extra ground balls etc. You have the natural talent but if you want to be the best, you are going to have to work a little to go beyond the inert natural ability that you were born with.

This weekend will be a good series. Right now the Orioles cant score but somehow still winning.

Sounds familiar.

Damn, thats us. We may see some horrible baseball this series but close games.:)

Man you guys are hot. 23-10 over the last 33 games? Big night tonight for you guys bringing back all the old timers for your 60th anniversary. But, we have not lost a game at Camden yards, evah!;)

See we just cant score right now.

**** You Masterson. Get this Cleveland trash out of here. I was pissed when we traded for him.

Martinez needed to work on his change up and breaking ball. As soon as he gets those pitches going, Masterson will go to the bullpen. He will be useful in the playoffs. A great change of pace.

he will be a great guy to bring in after Lynn/Miller to pitch a couple of innings, go through the line up once. Then bring the power pitchers back in to close it out.

Besides, some team will sign him in the off season and we will get a draft pick out of him.

Pretty sure they changed it so that players traded during the year can't have a pick tied to them.

All you have to do is give them a qualifying offer. Then you get the pick. It's a CBA formula that decides what amount is the "qualifying" offer.

I was okay with the trade. It was a gamble but a small one. I don't think anyone thought he was going to be better than a Westbrook even in a best case scenario.

We have Tilson/Grichek/Piscotty/Taveras in front of Ramsey. He wasn't even going to be called up for years. We still have a corner logjam.