Do you take Manziel at 23?
 

What if he falls?

A controversial, largely-thought-to-be-a-slam-dunk QB has dropped from time to time in the NFL Draft.

He could be Brady Quinn if we take him at 23, or he could be Aaron Rodgers.

Keep in mind, you've also likely got these candidates on the board as well:

WR Lee
WR Robinson
WR Benjamin
TE Seferian-Jenkins
OT Kouandjio
OT Richardson
OG Jackson
NT Nix
DE Tuitt
OLB Murphy
CB Dennard
S Pryor

I take him, FWIW.

I would take:

Lee, Robinson, Benjamin, Seferian-Jenkins, Nix, Tuitt, Murphy, Dennard and Pryor over Manziel at that point. Best case scenario....I'd trade down so someone else can take him.

All of this.

I'm sorry, but if you have an opportunity to lock down your QB position for 10 years, you take it.

I pass and trade out of the spot. For all of the fanfare he receives, there's a reason why he would drop that far. He's more Ryan Leaf than he is Russell Wilson as far as his personality goes.

Sure....but you aren't bringing a QB to the table who can "lock down" the position for 10 years.

This dude screams bust.

They've already invested multiple second round draft choices on Alex Smith. You're delusional if you think they are also going to use this year's first rounder on a QB, especially when they have glaring holes at 2 or 3 other positions.

No. maybe someone else will though...trade out and pick up an extra.

If the Browns didn't take a QB at #5.....then I would gladly let them trade up into our spot to draft that dipshit.

Yes, I'd take him.

Last years 23rd pick (Shariff Floyd) signed a 4 year, 7.7 million dollar deal.

He is only 21 and has some elite traits that would translate perfectly to the WCO. Vision, instincts, decision making (on the field), mobility, playmaking ability.

I would make a lot of calls leading up to te pick letting it be known I am taking Manziel unless someone trades up and I'd hold to my word.

We've got Alex for another 4-5.

Manziel will either be selling insurance or in rehab by then. Perhaps both.

Would you rather

draft Manziel/keep Alex this year and negotiate next year with him or tag him next year...if Andy feels he can get everything Alex gives us out of Manziel (or at least a reasonable amount) 2 years from now (or sooner if Alex gets injured) you have a very young starter FOR DIRT CHEAP. In this scenario, we have Alex and Johnny for AT LEAST the next 2 seasons.

Or

Sign Alex Smith to a market value deal right now. Cutler has the same agent as Alex Smith, Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford and Drew Brees...so we can expect Condon to be asking for comparable numbers...15-18 million per year.

If we take Manziel and it works out with him as the starter over the course of the next two years, that gives the team an additional 13-16 million per year to continue to build this roster with.

I really liked how Alex Smith has stepped up, but these guys preach BPA as their philosophy and they are replaced Albert with Fisher and this is probably a comparable scenario.

All in all, it's fun to think about but these guys are all in with Alex and they wouldn't take Manziel, even if they thought he would be really good.

I don't think this is the same scenario as Albert/Fisher.

They drafted Fisher because they were forced too. They tried leveraging Albert and they failed. Couldn't sign him to a new deal....couldn't get him to move....couldn't trade him. If Albert had signed a new deal before the end of the season....do you still think they would have taken Fisher? I don't.

I doubt they were forced to.

I'm sure there were trade offers on the table for the #1 pick. They may not have been "good value" compared to recent trades like what Washington gave up, but I'm sure there were a couple options on the table.

I believe they picked Fisher because they already had it in their mind that they were moving on from Albert, and boy does that look like its backfiring right in their face.

Go back to Eric Fishers comments to the media after Dorsey cut him. He all but said they made their mind up who they were gonna draft already.

We need receivers and DB's

probably not. The Chiefs are pretty much set this year with Smith, Daniel and Bray or a low round pick.

Yep. I'd rather us take the top rated between receiver, safety or pass rusher at 23. Or, use Manziel as trade bait for someone 10-15 spots under us and trade down and recoup our second rounder this year plus some.

This is what is commonly referred to as a "Freudian Slip".

99.99% sure you meant Eric Winston there. ;)

If it came to our pick, with him on the board, and Cleveland calls with the 26 pick, plus their 2 and an extra 4, I'd jump at that.

Do you take Tebow at 23?

No, and the same applies to Manziel.

Yes, I would take Manziel in a heartbeat, but he'll need a "babysitter" or a chaperone so he doesn't **** up off the field though.

All of this.

Say no to Manziel. Sorry, Hog Jerker.

Would it surprise anyone if Dorsey did make that pick, maybe not necessarily Manziel, but one of the other top 4-5 QBs who may be there? I would rage if that happened, lol. Would have been so much better to select a player who could finally contribute as a rookie.

It's a horrible scenario because we have a solid QB that AR loves. We just picked the wrong year to have the #1 overall. We really need that WR and Safety and using #23 on Manziel puts us into the 3rd round by drafting a backup QB.

That being said I think Manziel will be a special talent and for the long haul we'd be better off drafting him. People that compare him ti Tim Tebow are disillusional. I swear if somehow the Broncos get ahold of Manziel I'm done with football.

I think that Manziel does a great Ryan Leaf impersonation.

How do you figure ? Their personalities are nothing alike nor are their skillsets.

They're totally different in terms of stature, throwing skills, and personalities, but quite similar in terms of what makes them intriguing prospects in the NFL. Why are some NFL teams interested in Manziel?

1) He's got a deep list of highlight reel plays. Some of them clutch, others that just make you go, "How the hell did he pull that off?"

2) He's perceived as a QB that just has (and I hate this cliche more than anything else in pro sports) "it". He's got an undefined trait that makes him do undefined things at given times. Uhh, what? But scouts and fans still buy into that bullshit all the time

3) He's very mobile, and can take your offense to dimensions that other QBs can't. You can have the pocket passer vs. scrambler debate all you want, but regardless of which side you come down on, it's a given that defenses at least will have to respect that part of his game that they won't have to respect when they play against Tom Brady.

But that's it. He doesn't run a pro offense. The decisions he makes on the field aren't able to be tracked by scouts. They're impulsive and risky. And while that's often very good, NFL coaches ****ing hate that shit if the QB can't take the edge off and just be smart and safe with the ball every once in awhile.

You're not drafting him for his talent or technique as a passer or for his smarts (although there's nothing to say that he can't become a very cerebral QB at the next level). You're drafting him for undefined talents. That's EXACTLY what Tim Tebow was. It was a moron coach in Josh McDaniels who said, "Man, he's got all these great things he does in college with the football that no other QB does! If I can just teach him to do X, Y, and Z we'll be all set! It may take some time, but I think it can work."

Manziel is a Colin Kaepernick type QB. If you want to take him and sit him for awhile, then great. Nothing wrong with that. If you're aware that he's a high risk high reward kind of QB and the reason for drafting him is to hopefully come out at the end with a rapeface of a QB, then fine. But he's not a "must pick" kind of QB. He's not an Aaron Rodgers kind of QB where you say, "Wow, THIS guy fell that far? How can we not draft him?" He's not even like Brady Quinn in that regard, either. He's a QB for a team interested in taking an "Eh, why the **** not?" shot. That's not what I call a "You just gotta draft this guy" prospect.

The problem and solution you are getting with Manziel is that he's Fran Tarkenton on the field and Joe Namath off it.

He's an absolute leader and phenom on the field. He's got a really good arm and can make all the throws. And he's got wheels. And he's got instincts that are simply off the charts. And he's a prima donna party animal lunatic.

If I'm the Texans, I pick him. If I'm the Jaguars, I pick him. If I'm the Browns, I pick him. If I'm the Raiders, I pick him. If I'm the Vikings, I pick him. And I wait for him to get my team to the Super Bowl sooner rather than later and I wait to pick up the tabloids with him on the front page being dragged out of a strip club by the cops.

Fortunately, the Chiefs are locked into Smith, Daniel and Bray and they don't pick him.

I don't think he has as strong of an arm as advertised.

He looks ridiculously ****ing tiny, too... Not just height, but weight

No

At this point I'd rather stick with Bray instead of wasting a draft pick on Jon Pigskin.

Just depends how Bray is developing in the eyes of the coaches, because we have no idea if he's on par or he's exceeding expectations. If Tyler isn't then bring in another QB to battle for the 2nd or 3rd string position.

I hope he doesn't drop that far so we don't have to make that choice. There are so many good players that will be at 23 I don't want to use it on a qb. I hope there is a run on qbs and lineman so skill players will drop to us.

Dude, he's not even done growing into his size 14 shoe size.

Yeah, I feel like an idiot now. Looked up his measurements, not as small as I pictured. He still looks extremely skinny, though. Maybe just a smaller frame. I might just be an idiot, though

This + 1

yes

I'd take Lee over probably anyone but Clowney. I really think he could be a phenomenal receiver, especially in this system.

I think Mike Davis is as good as Lee - maybe better - and most likely could be had with our third rounder.

They are nearly identical in terms of physical makeup and skill set. I'm not sure about Lee, but I know that Davis puts work in. (Trains with Dez Bryant in the off-season.)

Man...there are so many "Manziel" based threads i wasn't sure where to put this, so this will have to do.

The red flag on Johnny Football: Can he take a hit?

http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/02...-football.html

He has all but dared the Houston Texans not to draft him to play football, and in another bold move, Johnny Manziel is taking a break from the game itself.On Sunday, Johnny won’t be throwing at the NFL Scouting Combine, where for years only the truly special prospects don’t do a thing other than eat the overrated shrimp cocktail at St. Elmo’s Steak House in Indianapolis.
Now Johnny Doesn’t Play Football has taken arrogance to new heights — he won’t be throwing at Texas A&M’s Pro Day.

Next up: He won’t play on PlayStation, either.
If NFL scouts and player-personnel types want to see Manziel, they can watch the DVDs of his big comeback win against Duke, that win in Alabama or Google search “Manziel Hot Girls.”

Manziel makes it impossible not to respect his unabashed arrogance and temerity — wouldn’t you love to pull some of the stunts this guy has pulled?

It helps when you have LeBron James saying “Johnny football is an unbelievable football player” before the Heat beat the Mavs at Monopoly Airlines Center on Tuesday night.
How could Manziel not believe in his own greatness at this point?
We are at the time of year when NFL prospects rise and fall based on nothing, and this time NFL.com’s Nolan Nawrocki is generating lots of buzz because he ripped Manziel in a scouting analysis.

This is the brilliance of the cottage industry that is the NFL Draft, and now college recruiting — no one has a clue.

Nawrocki writes of Manziel: “Suspect intangibles — not a leader by example or known to inspire by his words. Is known to party too much … Prima-donna arrogance.”

Nawrocki might know how to generate a headline or buzz with some inflammatory words based on drawing conclusions from a few stories, or pictures, but he doesn’t know. Neither do most of the scouts.

They won’t know until Johnny puts on an NFL uniform, and the people who watch immediately can tell whether a guy can play or he’s a bust. It doesn’t take long. If you think Johnny Football looks small on a college field, he will look like an extra-tiny man surrounded by the NFL’s freakazoid giants.

There is only one reason to be scared away from drafting Manziel No. 1, or at all — and it’s not his off-the-field lifestyle, which never affected his on-the-field production or ability to complete online courses.
Johnny’s height is not the concern — Russell Wilson, Drew Brees and others have been vertically challenged and won Super Bowls. Johnny is selling hard that he is Russell Wilson. He is not a tall young man, but he does have giant hands.

Johnny’s ability to play well in big games, elude the rush or make difficult throws should be as much of a question as his ability to sign autographs or land hot babes.

Can this man take the beating of an NFL football season? And what happens when he falls on his face? It will happen.

As the 2013 season wore on, Manziel wore down. He suffered shoulder and thumb injuries and, by the time he played at LSU on Nov. 23 and at Missouri a week later, he was bad.

Against big-time defenses, he completed less than 50 percent of his passes with two TDs and two picks. But he was hurt, and those were good teams.

The good quarterbacks in the NFL are the ones who don’t get hit. If he insists on running, he will soon learn the perils.
And there is no tape to show how he will fare when he fails, which will happen.

Every single football player who enters the National Football League to play football fails. One thing Johnny never did much of was fail at Texas A&M.
How will he react when he is punched in the mouth, either by his teammate, an opponent or circumstance? Ribs and bones will heal; the psyche is much more delicate.

Mulling this has to be draft-day misery for the Texans, and not too much different than 2006 — they could have selected the kid from Houston, QB Vince Young, or the big-time defensive end from the Carolinas, Mario Williams. They went with the defensive player.
Now they can have the local QB, or the big time D-end from the Carolinas, Jadeveon Clowney.

All the Texans can do is guess, and hope Johnny Football is as good as he thinks. He may be.
I just don’t think he can take a hit.

Manziel is going to bust.

Trash article. Thumb injury on throwing hand was a freak injury. Bounced it off a teammate's helmet... IN THE POCKET. All of his teammates say great things about him. There's no off-field risk.

Also, it's long been the case that the top QBs prefer individual workouts

A&M Fan Rudy???

Of course! I am a homer sometimes. But I was down on Johnny like everyone else in the beginning of the 2012 season. Then the more you watch, the more you believe

FTR, I have big questions about Evans and Matthews.

I think that Evans will be fine if he plays with the right QB. He's going to need someone who will trust him to come up with the contested ball. At worst, I think he is the next Alshon Jeffery with even more size.

Holy shit. If Jeffery is his worst, sign me up. I will say that he does have elite ball skills. Unfortuntately, I think his straight line speed is deceiving (i expect a 4.5-4.6). He really struggles to separate. Of course, he is still learning and hasn't played a ton of football in his life. I think he does have a nice ceiling, but he makes me nervous. I'm a Watkins/Beckham guy.

If he truly wanted to be the #1 pick he would compete and throw with all the other QB's. This is a huge red flag. Probably figures it would drop him out of the first round??

Yeah like Andrew Luck and RGIII

He isn't gonna decline workouts with individual teams. And he's gonna throw late in March with Evans and whoever else.

Bortles is the one making a mistake by throwing. He can't.

People had the same knocks on Jeffery coming out of college.

Definitely. Sometimes it works out. I wouldn't be pissed if the Chiefs took him. I'm familiar with him, and I like him. Just skeptical.

Manziels gonna be fun to watch however he turns out !

He will be showcasing his arm at his pro day, your statement has no merit.

THIS... Manziel looks like he has huge bust potential. Would love to see the CHiefs trade back a short ways and add a quality pick.

Yup, if either Carr or Manziel are there, I hope a team comes calling.

Statements like this are why people think aggie fans are dumb.

Well, Aggies and Aggie fans are dumb. See: TexAgs.com

I should have said there is more on-field risk than off. Obviously, I don't know him personally.

No.

We have Bray.

LMAO

I don't even think Tyler Bray's mom would take him over Manziel.

Why not? Manziel is everything that Andy Reid doesn't want in a qb. Hes not safe with the ball, or his body, hes an arrogant prick. He could just bring back Michael Vick if he wanted that.

Now, to the topic at hand. Manziel is going no lower than 8th to the Vikings, although my bet is he goes to Oakland at 5.

Unfortunately, for Browns, and Chiefs fans, with the added weight that Teddy put on, he is almost a lock in my opinion to go to the Texans. He is going to be everything that the Texans want.

And, where the Chiefs fit in. Teddy Bridgewater is the exact example of what Andy Reid wants in a qb, he just happened to come out one year too late.

The Chiefs need play makers. They are fine at qb.

While Bridgewater is almost a lock to go to the Texans, Jadeveon Clowney is a 100% lock to go to the Texans.

No way in hell that they pass up Clowney.

None.

Clowney is going to destroy the Combine and the Texan fans will be absolutely rabid for a Watt/Clowney bookend pass rush.

You pass on Clowney for Bridgewater and you better start looking over your shoulder for an angry mob carrying buckets of tar, bags of feathers and a very big rail.

No GM, and I mean no GM is going to pass up Clowney for a guy who may or may not even beat out your second string QB.

Apparently, if the draft were today, they'd take Bortles (te Texans).

If I were their GM, I would take Clowney as well. But the problem is, are you prepared to sink that much money into those two players? If Clowney pans out, judging from deals for truly elite pass rushers/defenders in recent history, are you prepared to pay two DE's 100 mil each for their next pay checks? I would do it, but that would mean having to hit on almost every draft pick in order to make up for the fact that you wouldn't be able to pay a lot of your other good-great players.

They would make it a lot easier on your defensive coordinator though.

It would make it easier on both Clowney, who was basically triple teamed the entire 2013 season, and Watt, who gets double teamed nearly every snap.

They'd murder fools.

And no GM is going to base their legacy on being the guy who passed on Clowney.

Unless the Texans get offered an absolute metric shit ton of picks, there is no way they are not picking Jadeveon.

You're unfamiliar with Bray?

I would laugh my ass off if they pick Clowney number one.

Does Clowney get them a Super Bowl? Because that's the surest way to fill the stadium.

The 2nd surest way is to draft Manziel.

If Texans ownership wants to fill the stadium, they'll take Manziel and take their chances with what happens on the field.

Halfwit being Halfwit.

If Manziel is available at 23 and we take a guard I think that will be it for me. Got enough other stuff to work on.

World population of halfwits is pissed about that statement.

The Chiefs have the starting QB position locked up for at least the next 5-7 years. Alex Smith is a top 10 guy and franchise QB.

If Manziel makes it past the Cardinals at 20 I would think Manziel would be a good reason for someone to want to trade up from the top of the 2cd. I just can't see him getting passed on by all those teams at the top of the 1st that need a QB but if he did I would think they would be willing to spend a couple of picks to try and get him. One of those teams might even be the Browns.

LMAO

Not at all. The Bray in college, was a turd. The Bray that we saw in the preseason, ad specifically the 4th game, showed a ton of promise.

He is also not an attention seeking man whore who is 5'11.

Tyler Bray is a fully grown man with a howitzer attached to his shoulder.

65% 1394 Yards 14 TD 3 INT in his last 6 regular season games...

In the playoff game he added another 4 TD 0 INT 378 yards and a 65% completion percentage.

No reason he shouldn't be able to get 3500 + Yards and 30 TD next season with more weapons...

Dudes entering his prime.

Yet, KC didn't advance when he had to maintain that lead with the 28 point lead cushion that've discussed ad nasium . He's not a top 10 range QB. Especially when the Colts secondary was shitting themselves in that game. The Defense sucked, but Alex didn't do his part when they most needed him. Like I said before if Alex did do he's job and come theough this would be a totally different conversation.

Yeah, he didn't do his part putting up 44 points without his top offensive threat. Then lost his only semi-trusted deep threat in Avery, his shaky #2 WR. Then he lost his dynamic back-up RB. Then His supposed #1 WR failed to keep his foot in bounds on a perfectly delivered ball down the sideline when it really mattered.

Alex Smith sucks, we should bench him and find a replacement.:banghead:

He had a good lead and coulldn't maintain it, hence the loss.