This team will 1000x better without Todd Haley
 

I truly believe that. I also believe that when players like/respect a coach, they tend to play very hard for them.

I think more so in football than any pro sport, the head coach on a football has to have the ability to lead, to direct, to drive the ship etc. Romeo Crennel, a lot like DV, will let his coaches coach. I seriously doubt Haley was that way. He was a control maniac on offense.

For ****s sake he Fired the OC just weeks before the regular season. I mean you just have to sit back and ask yourself what kind of person does Haley have to be to make a silly, borderline insane decision like that? Everything they've worked on in the summer at TC, they're just going to wipe the slate clean and start from scratch for Week1? Haley's was an insane control freak. What do you think the players thought about that? I mean that would be like working on a huge project for weeks for a huge potential client or something at work and the project due date is only a couple days away and your project mngr comes in and just shoves everything off of the table and says "let's do this instead". If shit like that pisses you off how do you think the players felt? This is the part where the HC has to be competent enough to be able to drive the ship. Have consistency in the locker rooms, film rooms, being on the same page etc.


He couldn't handle having someone else coach the offense. HE had to do it, because he thinks the Arizona Cardinals got to the SB because of him. The passing game under his era didn't do ****ing dick in Kansas City and as much as I can't stand the fact that Cassel is our QB and wish for something better, I also can't sit here and say that it's entirely his fault. Haley didn't think much of Cassel. The proof was there in his face on the sidelines. Haley's father even talked about how he thought Cassel was just average at best and it would be a safe bet to assume that Todd Haley and Dick Haley have had conversations about that. You tend to adopt what your parents believe and Todd's father was his door into the NFL world. If Dick thought Cassel was average wouldn't you think Todd thought that as well?

We all know that Matt Cassel was a Pioli decision and Haley was forced fed Cassel. What else is Haley going to do? Quit? It's his first NFL head coaching gig, he was a ****ing hand puppet. Haley probably had little to no faith in Cassel from the get go and combine that with Haley's temper you get a horrible coaching environment. Combine that with the whole Chan Gailey situation, Larry Johnson, horrible Oline and WR talent or lack thereof and well you have a complete cluster**** mess on offense. The only thing good at all that season was Jamaal Charles.

In 2010 when Charlie Weis came to KC, the offense became much better. Another Pioli move, Weis was a proven name, a OC players could respect We ran the ball like hell and Cassel didn't turn over the ball. He wasn't great by any means, and the true fans love the get off to his TD/INT ratio, but that didn't tell the entire story on Cassel's season that year. He still threw shitty underthrown high school girl passes, had shitty completion%, barley threw for 3,000 yards and his yards per completion was just sub average at best (ranked 18th in NFL). Over half of his TD's were to Bowe. We are all aware of Cassel's inability to read defenses and progress through his WR options. He locks on for too long, holds onto the ball for too long and gets sacked a lot. Cassel loves getting sacked, in fact he's good at doing it. Here's where he's ranked in the NFL:

2008: 1st
2009: 4th
2010: 18th (not bad, but not great either. And then you have to consider how much we ran the ball).
2011: 5th (projected)
- Cassel played in 9 games and was sacked 22 times, averaging 2.4 sacks a game. Over a 16-game period that gives a total of 39.1 (or 39) sacks for a full season, which would have ranked Cassel 5th in the NFL.

But the most important thing about Cassel that season was that he rarely turned the ball over, which was huge and a reason why we won 10 games that year. If you win the turnover battle you win games, it's as simple as that. With a proven OC it at least gave Cassel a better coaching environment to work within. Give him a couple receiving options and a strong running game and you can have success in this league with a good defense on the other side creating turnovers and scores. It's been done before. It's not what I'd prefer. I'd prefer to have an elite QB for 10yrs and consistently be a playoff contender and SB threat like the Colts, Patriots and now Giants and Packers. This is now a QB-driven league. When you want to win the Matt Cassel game manager's way, you need more pieces to fall in place and you need to have a little more luck. Elite QB's make other players around them better. Matt Cassel has to have the players around him, make him better. Elite QB's are the ones that thrive while under pressure and have the ability to lead drives to TD's, put points on the board when needed to win games. Cassel can't do that. You could count the number of times he's single handedly drove the offense down field, coming from behind to set up for a winning score (TD or FG) and still have enough fingers to smoke a j.

We were seeing some success on offense thanks to the help of the shitty division that is the NFCWest. But when it came down to playoff time Haley had to intervene once again with his egotistical and maniac behavior and strip another highly regarded OC from his playcalling duties. This time it was during the Chiefs first home playoff games since 2003. The game wasn't a 24-7 halftime blowout, it was ****ing 10-7 and we were 100% in the game. Weis would then move on to the Univ. of Florida for the same position, stating that it was family reasons were the reason for the departure. Now, being that he's now moved back to the area coaching what has to be one of the worst football factories in the country, do yo honestly believe his statement? I sure as **** don't. He was probably tired of Haley's shit. There were reports during the season and in camp that these guys butted heads and one could see why. Weis and Haley worked together in the same office while w/ the NYJ. Weis went on to the Pats and won Superbowls and became a household name, and then went on to be the HC at one of college football's most prestigious programs, Notre Dame. I don't care what people say there is going to be natural headbutting just because of those 2 ego's and what they've been able to accomplish. It's not weird to assume that Weis probably felt like he was 10000% more qualified for the job than Haley was.

Again you have to ask yourself, why would a NFL coach do something like that? Stripping away playcalling duties from your highly regarded, resume-filled OC during the franchise's biggest playoff game in 7 years at halftime in a close game? The answer is because Todd Haley was (a) way in over his head in being a head coach in the NFL and (b) a Bill Parcels wanna-be egotistical control freak that couldn't handle someone else running the offense. When he was hired he was asked the question who's going to run the offense, and he gave some bullshit cliche' answer with a shit eating grin on his face, the kind of look that a little 9-yr old kid makes when you ask him/her who his school crush is. Then came the Bill Muir era, as Todd Haley needed a puppet of his own. I don't think anyone truly believed Muir was capable of orchestrating an entire offense alone. Haley called the shots, and Muir said **** it and took naps upstairs in the coordinators booth.


Point being this is going to be a much better season offensively for the Chiefs. Daboll isn't exactly great, but I also believe it's the players that make the plays and he has a lot to work with. There's more consistency with the coaching staff, a better environment. The players want to play for their coach which is always good. Haley's temper and attitude is what eventually got the best of him. I don't know what he said to Bowe that ultimately led to him getting canned but what I do know is that it had to be something bad enough to where Bowe would tell his agent about it and for Pioli to tell Haley to knock it off. And when you think about it that's completely acting like an immature goon and it's not acting like a professional NFL head coach or leader... and you don't think other players heard that? I bet that kinda shit went on all the time and there comes a time that it happens too much and players will develop the "tune-out switch". A player will have a hard time respecting a coach if the coach doesn't respect them.

Maybe Haley acts like he does because he lives in a house full of women. Doesn't he have like 4 daughters or something?

I know there are a lot of "IF's" but the Chiefs do have a chance to be a good sleeper's pick this season.

-Better Oline (hopefully) leads to better play/confidence in Cassel.
-Better consistency/chain of command in the lockeroom with coaching staff will probably lead to better game preparation.
-Better weapons on offense (assuming Bowe comes back and can hit the ground running)
-Being healthy is HUGE
-Potentially great defense

On a positive note, this team almost won the ****ing division last season considering everything the Chiefs had gone through. There are a lot more positives than there are negatives regarding this season's Chiefs team and that's something we haven't been able to say for a long time.

Peyton Manning makes things extremely challenging this season. But I don't think he'll be as good with Denver as he was the Indy. Not because of his neck but because of the unfamiliarity. He completely ran the show in Indy and did it repeatedly for a very long time. There will be an adjustment period and even though I don't think he neck will be an issue, that certainly doesn't mean that it won't be, he has yet to be blasted by Hali and Houston. But he is that damn good and I would never count him out.

But I think everyone should look on the bright side and that this team will be better simply due to the fact that we no longer have some egotistical nutcase driving the ship.

Tl;dr

You do know who our coach is now? LMAO

At 1000x better we're going to win every game for like the next 80 years! Dynasty!!!

I'm happy we gave Crennel a chance for a couple reasons. One, he is at the very least a great defensive coach. So we know that side of the ball should continue to thrive. Second, the players all respect him and want to play hard for him. All pro athletes play hard for the most part, but having a coach that has earned respect, rather than demand it like Haley, gives the players that extra little bit of push and unity on the field. Things didn't go all that well for Romeo in Cleveland, true, but coaches are entitled to another shot. I am optimistic with Crennel. I really am.

Ive been saying this for a lomg time. Anyone who has ever worked in an environment that is saddled with hostility and bullying at the top level knows it sucks and makes everything a lot harder.

LMAO

Whats your point??

He almost took a horrible Browns team to the playoffs with Derek ****ing Anderson. Are you talking about that head coach?

ask CLE fans what they think of Bill Belichick

i dont buy the play hard for so and so coach that much. these are grown athletes they are playing for money, a lot of them are on an island. I think Romeo/Daboll will be better xo wise which isn't hard to do.

I also think the Steelers will sink hard with Haley as OC

Do you feel better about coming to work for a boss that's a huge asshole or one that's not ?

Yeah maybe "they'll play harder for Romeo" isn't th right way to put it. Its more like they can play for Romeo with more comfortability. Haley seemed distracting and I can see some players getting frustrated with his style. When things go bad with Haley, they just get worse. I think and hope the team will play with more of a collective composure with Crennel running the show.

And... after reading all of that, my vision is 1000x worse.

Thanks! :thumb:

:p

not anymore :(


:cuss:

Awesome we are now going to get Matt Barkley and the #1 pick.

After our first 3 games last season, I thought we were a lock for Luck or RGIII. With the way things went and the injuries, I couldn't imagine NOT being one of the worst two teams in the league.

yea but Players Coaches dont get you to the Super Bowl, let alone consistent playoff contender

who was the last one? Tony Dungy?

Tomlin, the Harbaugh bros, Coughlin, Sean Payton, Belichick, far from players coaches. Guys who command respect by being very hard.

Is Romeo a players coach because he goes easy in practice and training camp though? I could have answered my own question if I paid more attention to camp instead of messing around in beerme's threads and making granola bar threads.

well i can't answer that because I don't follow other team's camp threads as hard as I do my favorite team in the Chiefs.

I don't think Romeo is running it any softer than say, Todd Haley. I'm sure Romeo is much more organized, and the team will be prepared. But it's some of these teams that play that smash mouth type of football, will they be prepared for the hard hits of the Steelers and the Ravens and the consistent punch you in the face teams. It's seems more they will be able to hang with all the finesse squads.

Crennel is pretty old school. I wouldn't necessarily call him a player's coach if you mean having soft practices and inmates running the asylum. But players respect the hell out of the guy, which is a lot more than what you can say about Haley.

Belichick? Genius. Maybe the best ever.

Crennel? Total fraud that is Exhibit A in the case against the Rooney rule.

Why do you ask?

How many times were we on Chiefsplanet inundated with cries of "But Fitz LOVES him and helped him become the receiver he is today"?

LMAO

Morons.

the ole "Keyshawn got Haley's back so he has respect!" defense.

The Rooney Rule blows but without it, Herm wouldn't have a job at ESPN.

Maybe Haley is just a good WRs coach and not a good HC. Maybe Crennel is just a good DC and not a good HC. I guess we'll find out. I believe Crennel will be a lot better than Todd. At least he won't embarrass our organization by acting like a tool.

There is NO doubt that Romeo is an excellent defensive coordinator. The jury is till out on his HC abilities but he certainly showed his mettle late last season.

Haley, OTOH, has shown nothing, other than birthrights are pretty handy (and lucrative).

Some people in pro sports have nothing notable about their career, other than whose crotch the doctor yanked them out of.

I never really understood that. Haley rode the Warner/Fitz wave to a HC position in the NFL.

That is far more prevelant in football than any other sport, due to the sheer number of staffers required.

Why was Garrett Reid, a convicted felon (drugs) a Strength and Conditioning coach for the Eagles?

Oh yeah.

You mean like this guy?


yep....you guess it.

Frank Stallone

http://i2.listal.com/image/1723947/6...k-stallone.jpg

It was all a false flag operation to make us accept the Battle Toad. No way that this is coincidence educate yourself!!!1!!!1! Tinfoil!!!

Indeed. I don't believe Haley will ever be anything more than an OC. While he did instill some physical toughness sorely lacking from the Herm era, you can't ride that pony for very long. He just doesn't have the mental toughness to be a HC. RAC may fail and we all will call for his head, but until that happens, I say we'll have a team that won't quit. And, RAC is a snappy dresser as opposed to Haley the hobo.

ROFL

Hated the angry golfer from day 1...

So, too bad they didn't fire Haley like forty years ago, eh?

I see what you did there...

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/...pg?w=500&h=334

yep

ib4 Clay simultaneously argues that Crennel goes too easy on his players and that he rushed Flowers back from injury.

Herm rode the DB train straight to HC.

I don't think either of them were impressive HC's.

In fact I'd argue Herm was the cutest pig with lipstick...

:D

We will win our first playoff game since Montana in Crennels first year as HC here, so I'll take it.

diggin' the positive attitude, hope you're right. :thumb:

I liked Todd. He did some horrible horrible things, but I liked his fire and I wanted him to be our coach for a long time. That's when tragedy struck.......

Baldinger was just on 610 talking about how Todd's teams, particularly last year never responded in games and they were sleep walking. I missed the first part but I think they were talking about trainin camp in general.

No playoff wins in 20. It's difficult to get much worse.

I was never on the Haley train and only gave him a chance due to it being the right thing to do. I hate when franchises take assistants that are coming off successful teams but don't really have a track record. As far as I knew, Haley was a good WR coach that struck gold one season with the Cardinals as the OC. Even a blind squirrel could see that much of the Cards success had to do with the fact they had a possible HOF QB in Kurt Warner and three very good WR's in Fitzgerald, Boldin and Breaston.

Haley was a freaking train wreck of a HC and sucked as a OC! His best offense was led by Charlie Weis. His teams just didn't seem to care after awhile (for sure offensively)... a lot of that had to do they hated their head coach!

I think Romeo Crennel will be a much better HC than Todd Haley ever could dream to be. RAC may be a players coach but that doesn't mean he is a pushover. RAC definitely has a lot of old school in him. He isn't afraid to get after players but at the same time he is going to go about things in a way that garners respect from the players he coaches... something Haley rarely did. I have confidence that the Chiefs will have a good season this year and continue to improve going into the future. That is a feeling I did not have with Todd F**king Haley!!!

He was doomed the moment you traded for Cassel.

LMAO i miss Norm

And?...

I was behind Haley at first. He brought some much needed discipline to the team. But it was quickly evident that Haley and Pioli were never going to see eye to eye and things started going downhill. Sure he could have quit, but I believe he would have been effectivley out of football since we held his contract. So he started a campaign to be fired and it worked. Seriously, Tyler Freakin' Palko?? I firmly believe that if his daddy didn't have ties to the Steelers, he wouldn't be coaching at all. Frankly, a pox on Todd.

I don't think Haley was too bad as a coach, but his inexperience caught up with him I fear.

I won't blame him for 2009, but 2010 was clearly evidence that the Haley system was working.

In 2011, though, he just lost his damn mind.

Suck. Play last-place schedule. Suck. Play last-place schedule...

The Haley system. One of the worst coaches in Chiefs history.

I can't think of a worse coach in Chiefs history and that includes Gansz and Bettis. The guy was a complete and utter embarrassment, so it's good thing his Dad worked in personnel for the Steelers, otherwise, he wouldn't have a job.

Haley was gunther cunningham from day 1

Weis saved his ass in 2010 by calming shit down on offense but Haley couldn't handle success if it wasn't him on the controls.

Haley and Gunther are great at screaming and cheerleading but need someone to hold their hands when it comes to the real decisions.

Gunther had success with Shottenheimer(defense)
Haley had success with Whisenhunt(offense)

both had HC's on the same side of the ball that they were running. Neither actually installed/designed the systems they ran.

Haley is still young and might learn

First, the bullying started at the top. With hunt and pioli.

Second, bill parcells, Tom coughlin, and bill bellichick are enormous assholes.

Third, the Rooneys know what they are doing. They don't believe Haley is an attitude problem.

I hate when people try to compare Haley's attitude to the likes of Parcells, Coughlin and Bellichick!!!! Those guys knew what they were doing from a physiological perspective... Haley just yelled because he was pissed and didn't know what the fuck he was doing! How many times did one catch Haley screaming without explaining why he was screaming? It happened often.

If you want to support the horrible coach in Haley then go cheer for the fucking Steelers!

Completely disagree. Haley boldly implemented a terrific conditioning program -- despite the fiasco that was last offseason, our players were extremely well disciplined, very well coached, always in great shape, and players were motivated to become better players. That's different from gun, who screamed but still pumps out soft football players. From a player development standpoint, Haley was phenomenal.

As for the offense, I don't know. I also dont think he was given a fair chance. We talk all year long about how critical the qb is, yet we expect our coach to pump out a great offense with a bad qb. Doesn't make sense. When Haley called plays and jamaal Charles was the main rb in 2009, the offense didn't look bad. In 2011,we didn't get much chance to see that. So I don't know that we know enough to make that judgment. We are basically basing his entire track record off his rookie season and a third season with a lousy offensive coordinator, a 3rd string running back, and a bottom of the barrel starting qb.

What player got worse under his watch? Every player got better. Every player cared about conditioning. Every player seemed driven to get better.

I don't know how people can suggest he didn't know what he was doing in terms of developing football players.

You can argue that some players got better when Haley was coach. I didn't see any evidence at all that Haley knew what he was doing when actually coaching a game. I wanted to like the guy, then he would blow a 2 minute drill, or he would fake a punt from his own 30 with Brodie Croyle. His gameday coaching was on par with Herm Edwards. Maybe worse at times.

I can't believe how many times our offense would have to call timeout or get a delay of game penalty. On just routine plays, like first down and 10 on our own 20 yard line after a punt or kickoff. How does that happen?

Zilla, there's almost no excuse for Haley's 2011 season.

He took the OC reigns again. He played his starters the entire game in the 4th preseason game. He seemingly intentionally put garbage talent packages on the field to screw with Pioli's lack of acquisitions. There was some still that GoChiefs posted a year ago that showed Haley's formation with that Urban and Pope as the receivers out wide.

He just absolutely did not fit with this organization, at the very least. At the very most, he is simply not able to handle the pressures of coaching at the highest level.

How many times did we see players line up wrong?

A ton.

Yeah, it was just awfully disorganized. Illegal formations, illegal shifts, delay of game, burning timeouts unnecessarily. Those things can ruin a drive before it even starts, and losing timeouts due to sloppy mistakes can cost you at the end of the half, or even worse...at the end of the game.

Yeah, there's truth to that. But again, he was a young coach, and I'd rather a good coach who can't manage games than a good game manager who can't coach. There are a lot more bad game managers in the league than we realize. I'll also make one excuse for Haley -- the majority of his wild-eyed chances were taken in years where we were very uncompetitive. I think he knew we weren't going to win many games with our 2009 squad unless we took stupid risks. Remember that in 2010, we didn't see a lot of those mistakes.

In terms of developing players... I think that's BS he didn't help much. We forget that Dorsey and Bowe and a whole bunch of other players were overweight and entitled. They came into camp overweight, and didn't seem to care. His demand that Branden Albert drop weight was a terrific decision. His conversion of Tamba Hali into a lighter weight 3/4 OLB... tremendous decision. Dwayne Bowe didn't begin intense training with Fitzgerald until Haley came on board. DJ went from a scatter-brained freelancer to a pro bowl LB. He wasn't afraid to take a chance on Jovan Belcher. He didn't give up on Tyson Jackson even though everyone else had. And let's not forget, he did all of this development organically. He didn't have the huge salary players a lot of coaches get. He worked primarily with bottom-of-the-barrel players.

That's the only thing I liked about Haley. He would take ****in chances.

I've always expressed that Haley was the unfortunate scapegoat for a completely dysfunctional front office. I think the dysfunctions have less to do with a coach being unfit to coach as they are a front office so arrogant that they believe they can treat a head coach in the way that they did, just because he had some differences in opinion. I still think Haley will be a good coach one day. I think Pioli will be a good GM too, but I think in terms of Haley, Pioli was by far the one who showed the most "greenness" when it came to learning a new position.

Well then Haley needed to sacrifice three years of Chiefs history to learn how to not be such a nutjob.

Again, Haley is the one in charge of the formations on the field, and who plays. And he was playing Bowe in the fourth quarter of the fourth preseason game. He was seemingly intentionally putting out ridiculous packages. And he absolutely could not coexist with another cook in the kitchen.

I still don't have a problem with how he managed the preseason last year. He thought he was doing the right thing, trying to ease the players into the reg. season. To me, it makes more sense to let the starters get more and more playing time as the preseason goes on, so that when the first game comes they can be ready to go. The whole 2 series, 1 quarter, 3 quarters, 1 quarter set seems stupid, but everyone does it so that's what we expect.

One of Haley's problem was that he tried to be a little too unconventional. The fake punt ,in the Indy game two years ago, is one that sticks out to me. Also, I have a hard time believing that someone would purposely try to **** the team just to get back to the GM.

Speaking of that, the whole Palko thing is what other coaches would've done also. They weren't playing Stanzi and you don't bench a QB after two starts no matter how bad he is when all you have behind him is a rookie, unless your boss makes you. The same people who are saying "draft a QB in the first round" are the same ones saying "why did he play Palko so long, I mean four whole games." This magical first round savior that you guys are pinning for could go a lot longer than four games before he "gets it."

I wanted Haley to stay as long as he eased up on the players and let someone else handle to OC duties, but since that didn't happen. LET'S GO RAC!!!

Go back and watch the Jets game again. Any NFL GM who saw that and still hires him as a HC deserves whatever they get.

yea, that's why the offense was worse before and after Weis left


3rd and long ... draw to McCluster
2nd and 8 ... power play up the middle to McCluster

Haley would rather lose with him running the offense then win with someone else.


child please

I don't know if Haley's attitude would have ever allowed for that. He's so egotistical about running an offense, I think there would have always been a conflict there.

The 2011 preseason was an unmitigated disaster. On no planet do you play your starters deep into the fourth quarter on the last preseason game. He was far too rigidly dogmatic.

You saw that with Palko. I don't give a flip about Stanzi being green, Palko is the worst quarterback playing in the NFL at the time. You attempt rescue your season, and move on. He started Palko over Orton, for crying out loud. For two games, I think. Which is just assinine. And he simply did it because Palko was next on the depth chart.

I was rooting for Haley for a longer time than most. Like you said, he developed talent very well. But it was pretty easy to see he completely went off the rails in 2011.

We need Clay in here with a couple stills he gave us last year of the ridiculously untalented packages he intentionally put on the field.

I didn't have a problem with that. There was a strike shortened offseason. I don't know that any coach really knew the best way to get unprepared players offseason reps.

On the oc issue, maybe he can't co exist with anyone. But I think that's bullshit because he coexisted fine with whisenhunt. I just would have liked to have seen him get a fair shake at deciding who to work with.

He was under Whisenhunt. He could fire him.

You have coworkers of various levels of responsibility, do you not? Have you not seen this exact difficulty at least a couple of times? Lord knows I have.

It's not unique to Haley. Just to abrasive people unprepared for the responsibility they have.

well apparently just about everyone in the league had a better way than Haley.

The chiefs weren't even CLOSE to being prepared for the season

Haley basically chose to sacrifice a fast start of the season in exchange for something. I don't really know what he hoped to gain from it. He certainly didn't avoid injuries by doing what he did.

He chose, he failed ... just like he chose to have complete control of the offense and failed.

he didn't have a choice but to co-exist with his boss, Whisenhunt.