Haley, Pioli Smelling Like Herm, Carl
 

Haley, Pioli Smelling Like Herm, Carl

<table><tbody><tr><td class="primaryimage" valign="top">http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/97/974193.jpg
US Presswire
</td> <td width="3" nowrap="nowrap">
</td> <td valign="top"> | More









Two weeks ago, HBO aired top-secret Hard Knocks footage of Carl Peterson lifting his kingly posterior free of a chair and releasing the kind of odor one can only produce after failing to win a playoff game for 13 years. Through the unique smell-o-vision feature on my new television (scent is the most powerful memory trigger), I was instantly reminded of what it takes to ruin an NFL team.
</td></tr> <tr> <td colspan="3">
I honestly thought that smell would never again define the Chiefs, at least not while Scott Pioli and Todd Haley are in charge. But after Sunday’s season opener, the stench emanating from the broadcast was undeniably familiar – someone was farting around at Arrowhead Stadium again.

It’s only one game, but the 34-point beatdown the Bills laid on the Chiefs was so reminiscent of something cooked up by Peterson and Herm Edwards during their final season we can’t ignore it.

It was 2008, the third year of Edwards’ tenure, and his team was supposed to be making progress. Following a rousing 33-19 win over the Denver Broncos – the first Chiefs win in 13 games – there was a glimmer of hope.

That hope was destroyed a week later in Carolina. The 34-point beatdown the Panthers laid on Kansas City erased any doubts as to the degree of progress the Herm ‘N Carl Chiefs were making. There was none.

A 1-10 finish to the 2008 season confirmed what everyone suspected the day the Panthers beat up on Kansas City. The Chiefs, after three years under the same general manager and head coach, were one of the worst teams in football and had no quarterback, no identity and little fan support.

Do you see what’s happening here? We’re in year three of a new regime and the Chiefs are evoking memories of the previous one. Haley and Pioli are smelling a lot like Herm and Carl at this point. When a team gets blasted by 34 points after supposedly spending an entire offseason focused on one game, “The Patriot Way” echoes like the empty rhetoric behind “you play to win the game.”

Here’s the really scary part – at this point, the comparisons between the regime that emptied Arrowhead and the one that was supposed to fill it back up go way beyond one game.

• • •

The offensive coordinator nightmare

In three years, Edwards had two offensive coordinators – Mike Solari and Chan Gailey. In three years, Haley has had three offensive coordinators – Gailey, Charlie Weis and Bill Muir. In both cases, bad things have happened when the head coach couldn’t leave well enough alone and had to meddle. <table width="220" align="right" cellspacing="9"><tbody><tr><td>http://media.scout.com/media/image/97/974205.jpg
The Chiefs already appear to be missing Weis.
US Presswire </td></tr></tbody></table> In Edwards’ case, after a relatively successful 2006 season, he felt the need to strip KC’s offense of its aggressiveness. He dumbed down the Air Coryell playbook to the point where the Chiefs stopped throwing the ball down the field and became one of the most predictable offenses in football. The results – the league’s worst running game and 31st ranked offense – were not pretty.

Haley? His collaboration with Charlie Weis a year ago resulted in a completely shocking turnaround for quarterback Matt Cassel. But Haley, according to one report, felt the need to strip Weis of his playcalling duties at halftime of last season’s Wild-Card disaster, resulting in one of the worst-quarterbacked playoff games we’ve ever seen from a Chiefs passer.

With Weis now gone for good, the Chiefs have suffered through a lackluster preseason and an opener in which Cassel literally set a record for inept passing. The results are not pretty, just as they weren't pretty when Haley dumped Gailey just before the 2009 regular season started.

In both cases, we’re dealing with a head coach who couldn’t avoid meddling with offensive coordinators to the detriment of his team.

Identity crisis

There was no mistaking Edwards’ identity as a head coach. He wanted to win games with defense. Embarrassingly enough for Herm, his defense got worse and worse the longer he paced the sidelines at Arrowhead Stadium. The Chiefs allowed 315 points his first season, 335 his second, and an abysmal 440 his last.

When it became obvious the Chiefs were a complete defensive disaster early in 2008, it was the biggest strike of all against Edwards. What good was he as a head coach if he couldn’t implement the most basic part of his football identity?

What is Todd Haley’s identity? The passing game. From his early days as a wide receivers coach to passing game coordinator with the Dallas Cowboys to offensive coordinator with the high-flying Arizona Cardinals, Haley’s identity is throwing the football. Undoubtedly, he knows the modern NFL is being dominated by teams who can strike fear in opponents with the passing game.

What’s scary about the Chiefs’ passing game? Mostly how bad it is.

A year ago, the Chiefs were 30th in passing. Haley lost a playoff game because his passing game disappeared against a Baltimore Ravens team that, embarrassingly, wasn’t even particularly adept at rushing the passer. This season, Haley’s Leonard Pope-based passing game is actually making his predecessor’s look good. At least Herm, via Gailey, got the ball to Tony Gonzalez and Dwayne Bowe.

In both cases, we’re dealing with a head coach who can’t implement the most vital part of his football identity.

A shallow roster

When Carl Peterson sat down to review his 2007 Chiefs’ roster, evidently this thought popped into his head:

“Chris Terry and Kyle Turley at right tackle? That side of the line looks solid!”

Peterson thought wrong. The results of his decision to enter the year with virtually nothing at right tackle – no proven starter, no quality depth - proved disastrous. The Chiefs started three different right tackles that year due to injury and performance issues. Turley was far too brittle to make it through an entire season, Terry far too awful, Svitek too inexperienced. Kansas City’s offensive line was terrible, and it proved to be the worst part of a horrible year. <table width="220" align="right" cellspacing="9"><tbody><tr><td>http://media.scout.com/media/image/97/974207.jpg
Thanks to Pioli, the Chiefs have a situation at safety.
US Presswire </td></tr></tbody></table> But Peterson isn’t the only Kansas City football executive who can’t supply quality depth at an important position. Scott Pioli has been building his team for three offseasons, but somehow has managed to assemble a roster devoid of any real depth at the interior offensive line positions or at safety.

One injury to Eric Berry has created a giant hole in Kansas City’s deep secondary. Pioli’s decision to stick with Jon McGraw and Sabby Piscitelli (already gaining fame for his ability to blow coverages after just one game) as backups appears horribly inept. McGraw's Kansas City legacy as a special teams player/defensive liability is well documented. The true horror is his new partner in crime.

According to Pro Football Focus, Piscitelli was not just a bad player, but one of the ten worst safeties (including backups) in the entire league two years ago, missing more tackles (20) than any other defender in football. So why would he deserve a roster spot among "The Right 53," let alone be considered a top backup? Piscitelli is so bad, Chiefs fans on the internet have already created 37 derogatory nicknames either based on his odd name or simply his ability to miss tackles.

The Chiefs’ safety position is in real trouble. While Peterson managed to make headlines by starting a special-teams player (Devard Darling) at wide receiver in 2008, Pioli may surpass him if he insists on platooning two special teams players (McGraw and Piscitelli) at starting strong safety for the balance of the 2011 season.

Do we even want to contemplate what happens in the event of an injury to Casey Wiegmann, Ryan Lilja or Jon Asamoah? Pioli’s depth chart literally lists ONE player – rookie Rodney Hudson – as the backup at left guard, center and right guard.

In both cases, we’re dealing with a football executive who has massively neglected the depth of a roster despite having multiple seasons to build it.

• • •

There’s no question at this point. Consider all the similarities, throw in an embarrassing first-round playoff loss for each regime, and two-plus years of Haley and Pioli is definitely taking on an odor not unlike Eau De Herm.

How do the Chiefs pass the sniff test for the rest of the season? There are 15 more games. That’s plenty of time to turn things around. Perhaps the Chiefs' offense will be fine, Cassel will flourish and poor safety play won't destroy the defense. But things have to change quickly, and here’s why:

Almost immediately after the 2008 Chiefs were blown out by 34 points, they let another team humiliate them in the next game. The Tennessee Titans took that honor after KC's bye week, 34-10. At that point there was no doubt – Carl and Herm had to go, and everything had to be blown up.

You would hope we’re not at that point with this regime just yet, but a difficult game this weekend in Detroit looms large. A repeat of last Sunday, and the smell will only get stronger.

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

"But Haley felt the need to strip Weis of his playcalling duties at halftime of last season’s Wild-Card disaster, resulting in one of the worst-quarterbacked playoff games we’ve ever seen from a Chiefs passer. "

- Is there any proof of this??

Dear Lord, a little soon for that kind of comparison isn't it?

It's common knowledge.

Nice...

Did I miss the part in history where CP & Herm were part of a decade long beatdown with three championships? Damn. And when did Herm, as OC lead his team through the playoffs and damn near whip the Steelers? Missed that too. Damn.

Jesus. I've never seen such shit spewed after 1 regular season game in my life.

Sick of ****ing hearing it already.

In both cases, we’re dealing with a football executive who has massively neglected the depth of a roster despite having multiple seasons to build it.
:hmmm:

Herm-wins going down to 2
Haley-wins going up from 4

The world was flat. Until one day.

That's an awful long bullshit article.

It was one ****ing game. ONE. People are reacting like they're 1-14 already.

Yes, losing Berry sucks. Yes, Cassel has worn out his welcome. But the team is better than it has been, and at least tasted some success (11-5 and a playoff berth was a lot better than almost anyone figured). Haley may not be the most lovable guy and maybe he's a bit too immature for the position right now, but let's not forget that Belichick didn't do so hot in his first tenure. Pioli isn't the problem. Haley probably isn't the problem. Cassel is part of the problem. The fact that it's a young team without quality depth yet is part of the problem. Losing their best young defender will be part of the problem.

Yes

Have you read "the globe" today? Me neither. Until now.

Hunt Smelling Like Glass

Did Pioli fart in the office chair too?

That article was pretty brutal, but I believe it.

10-6 and swept by the Raiders, Cassel was 11-5 with Brady's team. The team has now lost 7 in a row, so it is getting a little old.

Obviously this reporter isn't the sharpest tool in the shed - he completely forgot how Haley foiled Weis during the game before against the Raiders. and that SD game. And Haley punched Cassel so hard, it made Cassel's appendix explode. Damn that Haley. It's all Pioli's fault.

at least herm got us some players

The Chiefs were 10-6 last year, 10-7 if you count the playoff game.

That's barely any more success than Herm's Chiefs at this point.

Who traded for and gave Cassel $60 million? :hmmm:

Eh, this weekend brings a new game. Hopefully we at least play a lot better so we can start to forget week 1s debacle.

That's the problem I have with Pioli. He's the one that acquired Cassel and gave him that contract before he proved he's worth that much. He's the one that hired Haley (and the book isn't completed on him just yet). He's the one who drafted Tyson Jackson and the rest of that awful draft class. 2010 was better, and 2011 obviously is too early to judge fairly.

People whine that its only one game. But that one game showed how woefully prepared this team was coming into this system. We should get better, but we're getting better from a hole already. The other teams will get better too, so we stay behind and don't catch up. The over/under for wins for KC according to ESPN right now is 6 and I'll take the under.

It's not just one game. It's the entire offseason and the course of two-plus years.

Scary thought - Herm's Chiefs were better at throwing the ball.

The Kansas City Chiefs...

I don't know how to quit you...

It is just one game. But at the same time, it's the one game that the Chiefs have said they've been preparing for during the entire offseason. Haley's mantra all offseason was, "We don't care about the preseason games, all we're trying to do is prepare for the game against Buffalo." That "one game" was supposed to be the grand culmination of all the offseason work, and the reason they looked so sluggish and unprepared in preseason games.

Holy shit. people count preseason losses as part of streaks now?
Posted via Mobile Device

WPI, Nick "Assclown" Athan, Claythan, smelling like Rhonda Moss's armpit hanky.

I don't think this is really fair. As soon as Haley got he preached he wanted a smash-mouth running team. And in Arizona their one weakness was they would try to run the ball so much in the first quarter, even though it wasn't working. They COULDN'T run, it's not that he didn't WANT them to run.

Not sure about people, but the guys wearing the red jerseys didn't win.

When was the last time you watched a Chief's victory?

We dismissed the preseason play, because we were told they were going all in for the first game of the season, Buffalo.

right now it is a process, and it is called losing.

We don't even run that kind of offense now. We don't have a smashmouth RB or OL.

Hell, did you see the playcalling Sunday?

First 10 plays: 7 passes, 3 runs.

Haley wants to throw the ball.

2009, we literally had no idea WTF we were doing.

2010, we caught wind of excellence and rode it to a 10-5 start.

End of 2010, we regressed into 2009 form and go 0-2.

2011, is looking pretty freaking awful.

Here's an awful stat.

In 20 losses, Haley has gotten his ass kicked 11 times.


And 5 of those date back to last season.


Bills 41, Chiefs 7
Ravens 30, Chiefs 7
Raiders 31, Chiefs 10
Chargers 31, Chiefs 0
Broncos 49, Chiefs 29
Chargers 43, Chiefs 14
Broncos 44, Chiefs 13
Chargers 37, Chiefs 7
Giants 27, Chiefs 16*
Eagles 34, Chiefs 14
Ravens 38, Chiefs 24

this is off topic and didn't know where to post it but just read on warpaint(not athan) that flowers signed an extension anyone know anything?

Actually 11. The Broncos destroyed the Chiefs in 09 at Arrowhead like 30-3.

In 33 losses, Herm got his ass kicked 9 times.

Steelers 45, Chiefs 7
Colts 23, Chiefs 8
Texans 20, Chiefs 3
Broncos 27, Chiefs 11
Broncos 41, Chiefs 7
Raiders 23, Chiefs 8
Falcons 38, Chiefs 14
Panthers 34, Chiefs 0
Titans 34, Chiefs 10

Counting wins and losses in preseason is stupid as ****. Talk about being unprepared, but don't talk about wins and losses. It sounds stupid. It's like saying that the Patriots had lost 5 in a row prior to the 2007 regular season.

It's complete bullshit. It's the laughably infamous "guys at a pizza parlor called Bob Fescoe and told them Weis said Haley took away the playcalling" story. You can watch the game and see that Haley wasn't calling the plays.

ProFootballTalk even backed away from that link you posted: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-haley-report/

Embarrassing.

Eh, whatever. It's not really central to the article. The point is that Haley can't coexist with offensive coordinators.

Normally, I would agree with you. But in this instance, I do not. The team finished with two losses last season, and was not in either game.

They started out with a loss this year, and were not in the game after 7 seconds.

The preseason losses fill the gap between them.

now get the **** off of my lawn n00b! :D

If you already hate Pioli, I I guess al I can say is get ready for at least six or seven more years of hating the front office, maybe longer, because Pioli isn't going anywhere. I figure he's got two more head coaches before he starts getting questioned by Hunt.

Pioli's 3 biggest moves:

1. Todd Haley
2. Matt Cassel
3. Tyson Jackson

There's not a GM in the league who could do worse with his 3 biggest moves.

Thank you. I thought that it was just local radio speculation. I wasn't aware that it was all based on Weis venting over a slice of sicilian.

Clay Wendler Smells like:

http://www.adamriff.com/images/wwe_stripper.jpg

He has a five-year contract.

If the Chiefs don't have a playoff win or a franchise quarterback by the end of 2013, why should he be retained?

I'd rather read XFactor's article.

There's nothing worse than a mentral A.B.C.D.E Wendler after a loss.

Yeah, like Clark is going to let him go.

Get ****ing real.

His contract expires at the end of five years.

If the Chiefs have accomplished nothing by the end of that term, why would Clark retain him?

What have you been a fan for 5 years? His father kept renewing Carl Peterson until the cows come home.

Pioli is going to be here 10+ years.

I have to have some kind of faith that Clark won't make the same kind of mistake, I guess.

;)Jesus Christ.

Just pick a side you bi-polar moron.

Where have you been? Do you not remember the 2010 frauds?

KC wins this weekend all this crazy talk goes away. At least for a week.

Would is very different to should.

Skywalker here is exactly right. Five ****ing years is plenty of time for a GM to lay forth and execute a plan. If the Chiefs aren't WAY (-YYYYYYYYYYx9999999999) further along than the current embarrassment of a team, Hunt friggin' well should be finding Pioli's replacement.

We'll see, though. Pioli might have an April lottery ticket burning in his pocket due to the turd he's ultimately responsible for fielding.

You're a good guy, and I love the gifs you post, but why do you change opinions so completely and quickly?

The Chiefs were not frauds last year. They earned the division. I get sick of the easy schedule argument, like in the NFL you get to play division II teams or something. There are more good pieces to this team than bad. A really good core of young players. You know that, you'd have to to study and find all the gif you post.

I don't.

I thought the Chiefs were frauds last year and I haven't wavered from that belief.

There are more good pieces than bad on ANY winning team.

Doesn't mean it's a legit threat for a championship.

because he is an attention whore who will say/do whatever he can to get people to give him attention. Just like a 3 year old child, it doesn't matter if it's positive or negative attention. It probably stems from an insecurity complex from being a fatty,fatty 2X4 most of his life.

He tries to make himself feel better by saying that he is generating traffic by creating controversy but it's really just sad.

Maybe he is Whitlock's bastard child since they seem to have much the same pathetic personality.

No

So after 2 years with the turd sandwich left by Herm they are supposed to be a championship team. JFC Clayton.

Herm didn't leave a turd of a team. The pieces put in place during his time were the ones who mostly carried us to the playoffs last year.

I don't mind the way Pioli's built the team so far (to some small level), but he hasn't brought anyone here that you can call a playmaker (except for Berry... and that pick was a complete no-brainer).

Yes, Herm left a turd of a team. That's what 2-14 teams are. Crappy.

If you're going to give draft credit, give it to Carl. He's the one who alienated Allen... he's the one who got a king's ransom when trading allen. He's the one who makes the draft picks.

Why do people think when Herm arrived he was suddenly 100% in control of our draft process?

They are supposed to be building towards it. You know, progress? Instead of getting outscored 102-24 in their last three games?

Actually it was Kuharick taking the draft away from Carl that got those picks here.I cant remember the stats but after Haley made the cuts in 2009 like 50 of the 61 2008 players were cut and only 2 made any other teams. That's how horrible the team was. Despite 10 good to decent players that have been coached up since then.

This was in response to the comment that the team left behind by Herm Edwards was a turd of a team. The personnel left behind during the Herm era, regardless of who gets credit, was really solid ESPECIALLY given the circumstances of the turd of a team Vermeil/Carl left for Herm.

Herm inherited a MUCH shittier situation than Haley/Pioli. A ton more.

Like I said, Pioli has done a decent job of rounding out the team in a short period of time.

But depth is stuff that puts you over the top. Playmakers are what put you in the Super Bowl. What Herm Edwards handed Pioli/Haley was a core of terrific young players, a bunch of easy-to-cut veterans, and a squeaky clean cap situation.

Herm inherited a much, much shittier situation than Haley did. He inherited a roster full of 10 years of failed drafts and a bunch of 35 year old starters.

I don't agree entirely with that though, but your opinion is yours. We had a handful of good players, a handful of decent players, and a goddamn circus side show of practice squad caliber scrubs.

I don't believe teams are defined by simply how many good players they have, but how many BAD players they have. Herm inherited a team with far fewer bad players, but fewer young ascending players.

And we were still getting WORSE 3 years after he took over. "IT's not my team yet, It's not my team yet". Barf

At least Haley's team, at some point, showed signs of progress.

Here's what Pioli inherited:

Jamaal Charles
Dwayne Bowe
Branden Albert
Brian Waters
Barry Richardson

Tamba Hali
Glenn Dorsey
Derrick Johnson
Jovan Belcher
Brandon Carr
Brandon Flowers

That's half of the current starters. HALF.

You can probably add Jon McGraw to that list now, too, since he's going to be a starter.

Players who Herm inherited who were starters in his third year.

Larry Johnson
Tony Gonzalez
Brian Waters
Derrick Johnson

Herm inherited a bunch of shit that had to be replaced.

It's pretty much well believed that Herm demanded a rebuild and Carl Peterson wouldn't let him do it. Herm had to go above Peterson's head, and it's largely believed that Clark stripped Peterson of power and gave it to Herm/Kuharich.

The team got worse in the 3rd year because Herm took the necessary step to destroy the roster of worthless, expensive veterans and focus on developing a roster of young players. Let's not act like in the 3rd year, this was a team on the decline. That 3rd year was year 1 of a massive rebuild. Most teams can rebuild in 2-3 years. In Pioli's 4th year, it still looks a little suspect.

He didn't control personnel. I have no idea why Chiefs fans think he had 100% control over personnel but he didn't.

Yes, we had talent that had been acquired by the staff. Pretty much all of them save Flowers were underachievers. That's what coaches do.

Herm was our coach, not our GM. I was really clear about this.

All I'm getting out of this is that you think Carl is a better GM than Pioli, but want to credit Herm instead.

Herm didn't coach these players up. The only player he drafted all by himself was Carr. That was his birthday pick.

ALSO, most of those players were acquired in the 3rd year. We don't even fully know what we've gotten from the 2011 draft yet.

Seriously... **** Herman Edwards.

I don't want to credit Herm, but Carl was already here. Herm was the one who inherited almost nothing.

The current regime inherited a lot more.

Carl barely deserves any credit. That guy is the reason this team fell into the shitter. Nobody's saying anything about Herm deserving credit. We're talking about the Herm era.

But if we're talking credit, Kuharich should get credit for the personnel, and Herm should get credit for forcing the youth movement.

And while Herm doesn't deserve 100% credit for draft picks made during that era, he definitely deserves some. Coaches are very involved with the personnel process. Especially given that Kuharich and Herm were mostly on the same page.

Haley's a far better coach. But I've said for years and years that Herm got a lot of shit he didn't deserve, but that he was easily the best guy to start the process of turning this team around.

I agree that Haley/Pioli inherited more young talent.

A better TEAM from top to bottom? Not chance. The team never improved under Edwards. Not season to season,and not game to game. They never, at any point, showed even a slight sign of progress.

Why did we replace kennison with bradley? Was he better?

Why did we replace Hall with Eddie Drummond? Was he better?

Why did we replace Casey with Rudy Assmonger? Was he better?

Why in the blue **** did Tony Richardson NOT retire a Chief?

Allen didn't leave KC because he was a bad pick,and we made no effort at all to replace his production which resulted in the worst pass rush in NFL history.

The holdovers obviously would not have been as young, but if you replace 7 minor positions with inferior players (younger or not) and the whole team gets worse.

Herm inherited a roster with few quality young players ( Allen and DJ) but lots of solid veteran talent. Much of which he chose to run off before he found a suitable replacement.

Haley inherited a team with a half dozen guys with good potential, but most of them were underachievers. The bottom 30 though was FAR worse than what herm inherited.

That's my opinion anyway.

and so what, you want people to believe this team was good?

Herm was the best guy to turn this around because he was possibly the only coach who could **** up so badly he could get Carl fired AND land us multiple top 10 picks. So in that regard... yeah. Sometimes you gotta hit rock bottom to start climbing back up and Herm was the perfect coach to put us at rock bottom.

Also, wasn't Belcher a UFA pick up in 2009 or was he on the practice squad in 08?

I don't remember him being here until 09.

Herm didn't run off Jared Allen. Let's make that perfectly clear. That was 190% Carl Peterson. We all know this.

Hall didn't do anything after he left. Richardson and Casey looked like they were close to done but hung on longer than expected. Kennison was finished.

Why did these decisions happen? You could ask the same questions about why we started Bobby Wade. Or Vrabel. Or O'Callaghan.

Herm/Kuharich had zero cap space and a limited number of draft picks. You can't expect anybody to turn a team in that much disarray with ONLY the draft.

Yeah you're right. I was thinking of Studebaker.