Walter Football's KC Chiefs Draft Analysis
 

2010 NFL Offseason: Kansas City Chiefs

Draft Grades, Season Previews, Offseason Needs, Free Agents

Kansas City Chiefs (Last Year: 4-12)

2010 NFL Draft Grades:

5. Eric Berry, S, Tennessee
Eric Berry's probably going to be a stud, but taking a safety in the top five is a very questionable move. (Pick Grade: B)

36. Dexter McCluster, RB/WR/KR, Ole Miss
Dexter McCluster is a luxury pick. If some team with few needs wanted to take him in Round 2, that would have been fine. The Chiefs don't have that luxury because of all of their primary needs. (Pick Grade: C)

50. Javier Arenas, CB/KR, Alabama
The Chiefs just drafted a nickel corner and kick returner when they still have issues with quarterback protection and pass rush. Not a good weekend to be a Chiefs fan. (Pick Grade: C)

68. Jon Asamoah, G, Illinois
I'm going to ignore the whole Branden Albert issue here because Jon Asamoah is a skilled second-round prospect. Many had him as the No. 2 guard. The Chiefs had to improve the offensive line. (Pick Grade: A)

93. Tony Moeaki, TE, Iowa
I'm a big Tony Moeaki fan - as long as he stays healthy. It always seemed like he was injured at Iowa. If he can stay on the field, he should be a great weapon for Matt Cassel. (Pick Grade: B)

136. Kendrick Lewis, FS, Ole Miss
A reach, but that doesn't matter much in Round 5. Kendrick Lewis fills a need, so this makes sense. (Pick Grade: C)

142. Cameron Sheffield, DE/OLB, Troy
Cameron Sheffield is a quality value here and fills a major position of need. The Chiefs have not been able to get to the quarterback for years. (Pick Grade: B)

Key Undrafted Free Agents:
# Nathan Ivey, NT, Maryland
# Bill Stull, QB, Pittsburgh





Season Summary:
I think most of us can now confirm that handing out $63 million to noodle-armed quarterbacks doesn't work. Sadly, there are some who will still argue this. But just imagine if the Chiefs just selected Mark Sanchez at No. 3 overall and used their second-round choice on someone like Ziggy Hood (would have to trade up a few spots) or Rey Maualuga. You can say hindsight is 20-20, but several people actually mocked these players to Kansas City back in January.






Offseason Moves:
# Chiefs re-sign ILB Corey Mays
# Chiefs re-sign QB Brodie Croyle
# Chiefs re-sign OT Ryan O'Callaghan
# Chiefs re-sign C Rudy Niswanger
# Chiefs re-sign OT Barry Richardson
# Chiefs re-sign CB Maurice Leggett
# Chiefs re-sign FB Mike Cox
# Chiefs re-sign ILB Derrick Johnson
# Chiefs announce retirement of QB Quinn Gray
# Chiefs sign G Ryan Lilja
# Chiefs sign C Casey Wiegmann
# Chiefs sign WR Jerheme Urban
# Texans sign G/C Wade Smith
# Chiefs sign DE/DT Shaun Smith
# Chiefs sign RB Thomas Jones
# Chiefs re-sign WR Chris Chambers
# Colts sign G/C Andy Alleman
# Chiefs tender RB Jackie Battle
# Chiefs tender S Jarrad Page
# Chiefs re-sign DE/OLB Mike Vrabel
# Chiefs cut G Mike Goff
# Chiefs re-sign QB Matt Gutierrez
# Chiefs re-sign RB Kolby Smith


Offseason Needs:

1. Left Tackle: Branden Albert didn't allow a sack in his final six games, so one would think that he really improved toward the end of the season. However, that's an incorrect assumption. Albert still allowed lots of pressures; his sack total was simply down because Matt Cassel released the ball quicker or just handed it off to Jamaal Charles. The left tackle position is still in desperate need of an upgrade, so Russell Okung is the likely pick at No. 5. Albert would then play guard, which would give the Chiefs two upgrades for the price of one.

2. Quarterback: This need obviously won't be addressed anytime soon because Matt Cassel is somehow the third-highest paid quarterback in the NFL. Think about that one for a second.

3. Nose Tackle: Ron Edwards is not a starting-caliber nose tackle. Terrence Cody and Cam Thomas will be considered atop Round 2 of the 2010 NFL Draft. Signed Shaun Smith

4. Rush Linebacker: The Chiefs had just 22 sacks in 2009, and 8.5 of them came from Tamba Hali. A pass-rusher might be added in the early rounds this April.

5. Center: Even when Kansas City's offensive line improved toward the end of the 2009 season, the center position was still a glaring weakness. An early pick will be used to upgrade Rudy Niswanger. Also, the addition of Russell Okung would push Brian Waters from guard to center. Make that three upgrades for the price of one. The No. 5 overall selection must be Okung. Signed Casey Wiegmann

6. No. 2 Wide Receiver: Chris Chambers was impressive last year since joining the Chiefs, but was likely just playing for a contract. I would not feel comfortable with Chambers as my No. 2 wideout. A receiver could be drafted in Rounds 3-4 this April. Re-signed Chris Chambers

7. Strong Safety: It was imperative that the Chiefs cut Bernard Pollard; he was too talented for their defense and room had to be made for veteran Mike Brown.

8. Free Safety: Can the Chiefs really go with the tandem of Jon McGraw, Jarrad Page and DaJuan Morgan at free safety again in 2010?

9. Defensive End: Despite all of the resources the Chiefs have used to upgrade their defensive line, they are still really hurting up front. Glenn Dorsey is a poor fit for the 3-4; Tyson Jackson had a horrible rookie campaign; and Alex Magee barely played. Kansas City will likely allow Dorsey, Jackson and Magee to grow together for another year, but it's not looking good at the moment.

10. Inside Linebacker: Position No. 439,129,695,238 that needs to be upgraded. Demorrio Williams and Corey Mays starting over Derrick Johnson? Seriously?

11. Right Guard: If the Chiefs take Russell Okung, they can move Branden Albert into this position (though he'll probably go to left guard, and Brian Waters would move to center). Signed Ryan Lilja

12. Slot Receiver: Lance Long and Bobby Wade aren't the answer in the slot. Signed Jerheme Urban

13. Return Specialist: Jamaal Charles won't be returning kicks anymore. Bobby Wade also needs to be upgraded as the punt-returner.

14. Cornerback Depth: Yep, this is needed too.

15. Power Running Back: Someone to complement the electrifying Jamaal Charles could be taken in the later rounds of the 2010 NFL Draft. Signed Thomas Jones

2010 NFL Free Agent Signings:

1. Thomas Jones, RB, Jets. Age: 32.
Signed with Chiefs (2 years, $5 million)

Thomas Jones would be a quality signing for one year. However, he's 32 and wore down at the end of last season. The tank is nearing empty.

2. Ryan Lilja, G, Colts. Age: 28. -- Signed with Chiefs (3 years)
3. Casey Wiegmann, C, Broncos. Age: 37. -- Signed with Chiefs (1 year)
4. Jerheme Urban (RFA), WR, Cardinals. Age: 29. -- Signed with Chiefs




Kansas City Chiefs Free Agents:

Salary Cap (As of Jan. 16): No cap.

1. Derrick Johnson (RFA), ILB, Chiefs. Age: 27.
Re-signed with Chiefs (1 year, $2.6 million)

Derrick Johnson started only three games in 2009 because he was too talented for Todd Haley's defense. Johnson has absolutely no chance of starting in 2010 after his two pick-sixes against the Broncos in the season finale.

2. Ryan O'Callaghan (RFA), OT, Chiefs. Age: 27.
Re-signed with Chiefs (1 year, $1.7 million)

Ryan O'Callaghan played very well down the stretch, but I'm not overly confident that he's the long-term answer at right tackle for the Chiefs.

3. Chris Chambers, WR, Chiefs. Age: 32.
Re-signed with Chiefs (3 years, $15 million; $5.9 million guaranteed)

Being cut by the Chargers served as a wake-up call for Chris Chambers, who eclipsed the 70-yard barrier five times in nine games with the Chiefs. Having said that, I wouldn't be able to trust Chambers with a new contract.

4. Corey Mays (RFA), ILB, Chiefs. Age: 26.
Re-signed with Chiefs (1 year, $1.7 million)

A backup inside linebacker pushed into the starting lineup because of the front office's ineptness, Corey Mays really struggles against the run.

5. Wade Smith, G/C, Chiefs. Age: 29.
Signed with Texans (4 years, $12 million; $6.25 million guaranteed)

Wade Smith played well down the stretch. He can fill in at both guard and center.

6. Mike Vrabel, DE/OLB, Chiefs. Age: 35.
Re-signed with Chiefs

It's sad to see Mike Vrabel decline like this. Vrabel had just two sacks in 2009, but was still effective against the run.

7. Brodie Croyle (RFA), QB, Chiefs. Age: 27.
Re-signed with Chiefs (1 year, $1.7 million)

I'm not sure if Brodie Croyle isn't the best quarterback on the Chiefs. That's how mediocre Matt Cassel is.

8. Mike Cox (ERFA), RB, Chiefs. Age: 25. -- Re-signed with Chiefs (1 year)
9. Jarrad Page (RFA), FS, Chiefs. Age: 25. -- Tendered by Chiefs (2nd round)
10. Rudy Niswanger (RFA), C, Chiefs. Age: 27. -- Re-signed with Chiefs (1 year, $1.7 million)
11. Maurice Leggett (ERFA), CB, Chiefs. Age: 23. -- Re-signed with Chiefs
12. Andy Studebaker (RFA), DE/OLB, Chiefs. Age: 24. -- Re-signed with Chiefs
13. Bobby Wade, WR, Chiefs. Age: 29.
14. Mike Goff, G, Chiefs. Age: 34.
15. Andy Alleman (ERFA), G, Chiefs. Age: 26. - Signed with Colts
16. Barry Richardson (ERFA), OT, Chiefs. Age: 24. -- Re-signed with Chiefs
17. Kolby Smith (ERFA), RB, Chiefs. Age: 25. -- Re-signed with Chiefs
18. Matt Gutierrez (ERFA), QB, Chiefs. Age: 26. -- Re-signed with Chiefs
19. Jackie Battle (ERFA), RB, Chiefs. Age: 26. -- Tendered by Chiefs

Berry is a "B" grade?

**** you Walter, you jizz guzzling, dick lovin' mother ****ing son of a bitch.

:D

That felt good. Too bad I can't say it to his face.

Let's ignore the grades for a second, and get to the needs.

With the exception of LT, I think he's dead on regarding our needs, and has them listed pretty close to level of importance. I moved ILB up on the list.

So needs 2-8 were ignored, while needs 9, 12-14 were addressed.

Awesome.

That sums it up pretty well, but I look for this to be ignored, must like our top needs.

Oh, so it's okay to agree with everything he said with the exception of his number one need? #1 NEED.

If you agree with Walter, then the Chiefs draft is fail because they passed on Okung. Again, #1 need, and they passed. After that, it really doesn't matter.

2. Quarterback: This need obviously won't be addressed anytime soon because Matt Cassel is somehow the third-highest paid quarterback in the NFL. Think about that one for a second.
you know the answer here
3. Nose Tackle: Ron Edwards is not a starting-caliber nose tackle. Terrence Cody and Cam Thomas will be considered atop Round 2 of the 2010 NFL Draft. Signed Shaun Smith
all the good ones got overdrafted, the remaining ones we obviously didnt like enough to touch, I trust Romeos evaluation of them. Im sure if Troup was there at 2b or 3, we would have pulled the trigger, he loved him after shrine practices

4. Rush Linebacker: The Chiefs had just 22 sacks in 2009, and 8.5 of them came from Tamba Hali. A pass-rusher might be added in the early rounds this April.
Sheffield was drafted in the fifth, the position wasnt "ignored" Im sorry, but I didnt really want Kindle anyway because of how weak he is against the run, when news came out that he needs microfracture surgery and likely played with the injury (which makes it worse and increases the probability of it becoming a long term problem) it made him untouchable that high for a team like us that cant afford to have a high pick on the pup to start his KC career
5. Inside Linebacker: Position No. 439,129,695,238 that needs to be upgraded. Demorrio Williams and Corey Mays starting over Derrick Johnson? Seriously?
I got nothing, I did notice that Pittsburgh drafted 3 of them and I wonder if they cut Farrior loose or if they are offering him for trade comp? Id trade them Waters in a heartbeat...2 problems solved BOOM get Pioli on the line!!!

6. Center: Even when Kansas City's offensive line improved toward the end of the 2009 season, the center position was still a glaring weakness. An early pick will be used to upgrade Rudy Niswanger. Also, the addition of Russell Okung would push Brian Waters from guard to center. Make that three upgrades for the price of one. The No. 5 overall selection must be Okung. Signed Casey Wiegmann, I would have liked to have drafted Matt Tennant over that safety we drafted in the fifth, but I dont know the whole story on either.

7. No. 2 Wide Receiver: Chris Chambers was impressive last year since joining the Chiefs, but was likely just playing for a contract. I would not feel comfortable with Chambers as my No. 2 wideout. A receiver could be drafted in Rounds 3-4 this April. Re-signed Chris Chambers Im glad they left a long term starters spot open, next year will be a better year to fill this gap.

8. Strong Safety: It was imperative that the Chiefs cut Bernard Pollard; he was too talented for their defense and room had to be made for veteran Mike Brown.
I was one of the few that was full blown against this move BEFORE it was made, our run defense missed his presence and he would have paired VERY nicely with Berry IMHO, but if he wasnt gonna get with the program...**** em!

9. Free Safety: Can the Chiefs really go with the tandem of Jon McGraw, Jarrad Page and DaJuan Morgan at free safety again in 2010?

done

10. Defensive End: Despite all of the resources the Chiefs have used to upgrade their defensive line, they are still really hurting up front. Glenn Dorsey is a poor fit for the 3-4; Tyson Jackson had a horrible rookie campaign; and Alex Magee barely played. Kansas City will likely allow Dorsey, Jackson and Magee to grow together for another year, but it's not looking good at the moment.

We have absolutely NO need for DEs on this team. NONE. Even if we move Dorsey to the nose, we still have good depth at end.

The way we passed on nose guards in the draft, makes me wonder if there is more to the Dorsey to NT "rumors" than meets the eye.

11. Right Guard: If the Chiefs take Russell Okung, they can move Branden Albert into this position (though he'll probably go to left guard, and Brian Waters would move to center). Signed Ryan Lilja

We drafted one of the best RG prospects in the draft, if not the best.

12. Slot Receiver: Lance Long and Bobby Wade aren't the answer in the slot. Signed Jerheme Urban

We got a PLAYA!!

13. Return Specialist: Jamaal Charles won't be returning kicks anymore. Bobby Wade also needs to be upgraded as the punt-returner.

We got a PLAYA!!

14. Cornerback Depth: Yep, this is needed too.

We got a PLAYA!! (albeit a nickle one)

They addressed rush backer with Sheffield and undrafted FA Justin Cole. Studebaker still has upside too.

We also might have addressed inside linebacker with undrafted FA Michael Johnson.

I agree with Boss about the nose tackle situation. After Buffalo reached for Troup, I kinda figured that we weren't going to be able to get a nose. If Dorsey and Jackson can make significant jumps, we might be able to get away with a serviceable at best NT.

Walter is dumb ass for putting Berry as a B grade.

he also disagreed with ILB and moved that position up in his analysis.

I still think ALbert can do well. Especially with more help on the line next to him and a QB that doesnt get deer in headlights look on every blitz.

This'll be my last draft discussion. Walt is dumb to rank Berry a B. Completely stupid.

As far as KC's draft:
1. Berry Great pick.

2. McCluster. I remember watching a few Ole Miss games this year and saying wow that guy is pretty good. Then when the combine rolled around and he was only 175lbs and didn't run that fast, I thought he'd slide a bit. IMO, and I know a lot of people will disagree, Oakland (I think) got better value taking Jacoby Ford in the 4th round. KC could have taken their undersized speedster/wildcat/returner in round 4, and used the 2a pick to address a bigger need. Personally, I'd have grabbed Tate - a full time receiver who can operate in an NFL offense. A guy that can run KCs system and make plays with the ball. Tate had one of the fastest 10 yard splits, so he can get off the line quickly - something Cassel needs.

3. Arenas. Seems too similar to McCluster. KC's D is atrocious up the gut and they are taking part-time players? You've got defensive players like Cody, Lee and Butler on the board and you are taking a nickel corner? I'm not sure opposing teams are going to face 3rd and long all that much.

4. Asamoah - I'd give it an A-. It gets a minus only because KC ignored other needs positions in round 2, that I still can't help but feel they should have gone front 7 defense. Good pick, but I'd like it better if other positions were drafted prior.

5. Moeaki - Giving up picks to move up in a deep TE class? Who was available in the 4th? - Campbell for RT, Jacoby Ford (if you didn't go McCluster at 2a), Pitta, Dillard, Gibson and Norwood. I'd much rather have Pitta, Dillard, Gibson or Norwood and the extra pick. I would have rather used the extra 5th to move up to the end of 4 to get two of the aforementioned players.

6. Lewis - Another DB? Thomas, Scott, Olsen and Tennant are on the board and KC is still taking special teamers? Hell take a chance on Hardy or LeFevour.

7. Sheffield - I like the pick. I'm from the camp that you always try to grab a pass rusher in every draft.

First, I didn't agree with his assessment of our needs at ILB, either. Way too low.

Second, I have to agree with everything to use this as a template?

Good post.

I just love how it keeps being repeated that we ignored needs at NT to take a part-time player, but then in the next sentence they talk about Terrence Cody like he's going to be on the field more than 50% of snaps in the game.

I don't disagree with too much of what walter has to say. Berry was obviously the right pick. But a safety in the top 5... Eh. I'd give it a B+...

McCluster**** would be a D in my book. We took a 170 lb roleplayer whose shelf life is likely under five years when there are a number of everydown improvements on the board, including a QB whom your QB expert has worked with extensively and is telling you has the makings of a franchise player?

At 2B, we could have had golden tate or cody... But we go with a midget nickleback/return specialist? What's the point of drafting Berry at five if you don't plan to man him up in nickle situations?

I like the Asamoah pick. Good value at a position of need. Certainly an A.

Then we trade up and take a player who can't stay healthy at a position that isn't even used in our offense.

And we pass on Cam Thomas in the fifth? Wtf...

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I'd imagine to most people, part time player at a position of desperate need is more important than a part time player at a position of much lessor need.

And considering we just took a NCB last year, and we have the worst run defense in the league, I can see why people would think that.

So instead they reached for McCluster because they knew that he was going to go with the next pick. They should have reached and taken Troup at #36.....at least it filled a ****ing need. We could have got our slot receiver at #50 with Golden Tate.

I'm sorry, but I'm not buying this bullshit that Philly was taking him.

There's no way in hell they were taking a guy that at absolute best, in a fantasy world, gives you what you already have in Jackson and Maclin - over Nate Allen.

why would that be reported then? sal pal just trying to make our draft look better?

Picking McCluster would have not only given Cobb the most dynamic receiving corps in the game, but a weapon out of the backfield and a wildcat.

So you know more than sal pal who has been covering philly for like forever.

I am not buying your bullshit.

If we reached for Troup at 36, then people would be bitching that we could have gotten him later in the draft.

McCluster is a better player than Jacoby Ford.

It's not bullshit that the Eagles were going to take him after us.

Totally agree with The Bad Guy about people being ridiculous for complaining about part time players but then mentioning Cody.

You can't calculate your draft based on other teams needs.:D

Sal Paolentonio is the most connected person in this country to the Eagles. He lives 10 miles from the Linc and is at the facility basically every day.

When he says they were taking McCluster, I believe it. I don't know why anyone would not believe what that guy says, but to each his own.

he wanted to make our draft look better
Posted via Mobile Device

Just like Cleveland was going to take Tyson Jackson.

Or the Bears were going to take Alex McGee.

More like the time that Drew Rosenhaus had Willis McGahee act like he was on the phone with a team so Buffalo would think they had to reach for him.

Yeah, the draft is always on the up-and-up.

The Eagles may have wanted McCluster. The Eagles have different needs than KC. What makes sense for them, doesn't necessarily make sense for KC.

To think they need a player who is a smaller, slower version of the two WR's they already have, and gives you nothing the two of them don't give, is pretty ridiculous.

Everybody and their brother knew they wanted one of the top safeties.

To each their own.

Brian Westrbook caught 426 passes in his career with the Eagles. Andy Reid likes to throw to his RB...that's where McCluster fits...not as a "smaller, slower version of the two WR's they already have".

So let me see if I understand this.

We addressed needs with UDRAs?

LMAO

LeSean McCoy.

More of a pure RB than a multi-purpose receiving threat.

Yeah, that's what I said. :rolleyes:

Sheffield was a draft pick.

Studebaker wasn't undrafted.

I said they might have addressed a need at ILB.

We weren't going to address all of our needs in this draft. Hopefully, they get something out of some undrafted guys. That's really all I'm saying.

McCoy had 40 catches last year.

You know how many catches Westbrook had his rookie season?

9.

His second season he had 37.

So I think you might be just a little off on that assessment.

In about 99.999987% of UDFAs, the most you can hope for is a project that sticks.

Suggesting that we addressed needs in UDFA is an unrealistic dream.

I know. I'm just saying that bringing in a pass rusher and an inside LB as UDFA's is better than not looking at those positions at all since we didn't draft any (outside of Sheffield, who is a project himself).

Like I said, Reid likes to throw to his RB's.

McCoy only had 65 career receptions in college, yet he had 584 rushing attempts, which is where my pure runner statement came from.

Like I said, I trust Romeo Crennels assessment of a player far beyond anyone here. No offense to anyone here...lets see how it pans out before we go burning peoples houses down, shall we.

Dexter played two years of receiver as well as two years of RB and we are talking about a team that just jettisoned Bryan Westbrook and lost Buckhalter the previous year and has been targeting playmakers like McCluster the last few years. A team that heavily values depth. Sal Pal flat out said he was the Eagles pick.

I GUARANTEE that if we had taken Troup and Dexter McCluster was the Eagles pick that we ALL know what the argument would be right now.

PIOLI DID GOOD

PLAYMAKER

midget cornerback?
you realize he is the same size as brandon flowers right?

That picture creeps me out.

I think ego got into his draft assessment quite a bit, but I agree with some of his grades.

Overall we did what teams that are successful do, we used a balanced combination of drafting talent with value.

I love the Berry pick, McCluster will provide a nice level of versatility, Arenas can be our punt returner and hopefully an elite nickel, the people who know O-line love Asomoah, Moeaki was incredibly underrated and might wind up as a more athletic Kevin Boss.

After round three my view is draft the best talent available, and the scouts are defending our picks so I'll agree.

Walter's a ****ing idiot.

He's just a guy with a website and he's frequently wrong about absolutely everything. I don't know why anyone would give his opinions any credence, whatsoever.

Yeah, but the middle section I quoted is dead...balls...accurate. :)

still amazed people are still bitching about McCluster's speed. Maybe if all you ever looked at was that one combine time and never saw a second of his game film it would be understandable..but at this point surely everyone has seen clip after clip of him completely burning guys in the most athletic football conference.

If you want to bitch about his size, durability, whatever, then fine, but stop bitching about his speed. He can flat out fly.

There's the story about Philly. And Pioli made a comment that there were 3 teams looking to take him soon after.

Couple that with Rick Gosselin saying that he was the top 3 WR and/or the top 3 RB on a lot of team's boards.

Palantonio knows a lot about Philly. Pioli doesn't have incentive to lie about how many teams were interested. And Gosselin is one of the best in the biz.

The idea that this was a reach is.... well, a reach.

McCluster better gawd dam be everything and a bag of chips for us to pass up on everything with did.

there were plenty of 1st round talent guys still on the board that filled a much bigger position of need and we passed on them for McCluster.

McCluster better be Reggie Bush and Wes Welker all rolled up into one.

You're again talking about a need-based draft. You take the best on your board, period.

And yes, for this to be a good pick, he needs to get around 800+ all-purpose yards (not including return yards).

And how do you define "need"? Maybe Weis' version of a need is different from ours. Case-in-point, how many people here are bitching about the Moeaki pick in favor of one-dimensional pass catchers, even if that's not the type of tight end Weis wants.

And by the way, guarantee that most of the players we're bitching about passing up on are going to be average rotational players at the very best.

Yeah, that's just completely ridiculous.

They don't mention that McCluster absolutely dominated the short-shuttle and agility drills. I don't know when 40 times became such a gold standard for speed. Based on watching tape and his combine, the reason the kid is dynamic isn't speed, it's because he can changing direction and speed and cutting. When you're talking about slants and underneath routes in the slot, a position where you're usually not bumped at the line, I would easily take those skills over straight-line speed.

Sure, he's not the home run threat that Golden Tate was, but he has potential to be far more dangerous with the underneath stuff, which is a lot more valuable for the slot in a Weis offense. And his ability to cut/change direction as he does makes him a far more valuable open field weapon.

and i contend that there were several guys that were actually BPA over McCluster and still filled a more impactful need than McCluster does.

just one quick example:

instead of grabbing McCluster, we grab safety Nate Allen to pair up with Eric Berry.

we now have one of the youngest and most talented secondary in the NFL with Flowers,Allen,Berry,Carr. Both safeties can cover like cornerbacks but are built and tackle like safeties. Totally sic

since we took Allen we don't have to take Lewis in the 5th and we can grab a KR/PR specialist guy there like CB/KR Parrish Cox. With Cox around we don't need Arenas and we could of grab a stud LB or NT(2/3 LB's and 2/3 NT's to choose from) at 2b and our draft looks really freaking solid.

Maybe not as flashy, but still we got really good players and filled really important needs.

The MUCH bigger need was a pass rusher or ILB, both of which were available when we picked.

Here's the problem: If McCLuster was higher on our board than Koa Misi and Dary Washington, then we have a bigger problem.

They both fit a bigger need and would have fit the BPA.

I've been waiting for over a week for someone to find me one reputable analyst that had McCluster as a Top 40 prospect.

So don't act like we didn't reach. We did. For a position that Pioli felt was more important than the two biggest weaknesses on the defense.

Who's a reputable analyst?

Hell, at this point find anyone that had him as a Top 40 prospect.

We can debate "reputable" later.

If Palantonio is telling the truth, and he's better informed than anyone about the Eagles

If Pioli is telling the truth, and why would he not

And if Gosselin is right about mcCluster being a top 3 WR AND top 3 RB on a lot of teams boards, and Gosselin is one of the most informed of any draft-day sources

Then McCluster was a BPA. And at a position we currently need.

You're putting a lot more emphasis on need over BPA.

I wanted Clausen and Cody in the second, but I don't mind this pick. When last season started, Defensive Coordinators maybe worried a little bit about Bowe. Nobody else on our offense required a second thought.

This year, we'll have Bowe, Charles, and McCluster. That's 3 guys who can make plays. Combine that with what should be improved play at Guard with Lilja, Center play with Wiegmann, and hopefully an improvement at LT from Albert, and we are going to be greatly improved versus opening week last season.

A few points of contention. The first being that unless you have Eric Berry, a Safety is NOT a position that carries high positional value. I think McCluster will play as valuable a role as Allen if not moreso. Yeah, you could argue he was among the BPA, but if you factor in need, weren't people on here complaining that our safeties can't cover if there's no pass rush?

To the second point, with Cox you have a character-issue guy who's decent in kick coverage and is a lot slower to play the corner position. With Arenas, you have a bona fide nickel corner and coverage guy. I think we may have reached a little on Arenas, but I don't have a huge problem taking a guy who plays two pretty important roles.

And finally, most of these players we're talking about. Apart from Kindle, are any of these guys really playmakers? They look like they have potential to play their position well enough, but none are going to add electricity. We again go into the debate of whether this team needs playmakers or players who can solidify their positions, and it's interesting that this board has shifted gears from one position to another entirely with the McCluster pick.

he's a defensive playmaker

Nate Allen

College Stats: Finished with 144 solo tackles (five for loss) and 80 assists. Intercepted nine passes, broke up 12 more, recovered four fumbles and a blocked field goal, and scored three touchdowns.

or heck we could of waited until round 3 for S Morgan Burnett

bottomline is that there were much less "gadgety" players that are going to be quality starters in the NFL available at virtually every position and we took a speedier version of Dante Hall..

If you're looking at pure stats, Allen's stats are not that different from Kendrick Lewis. Nate Allen is going to be a decent Safety. He's not going to be a playmaker. He doesn't have enough pure speed. He's just a guy who is very solid at his position.

And the Dante Hall comparisons are ridiculous. Dante Hall was a really shitty receiver who ran below average routes and was only capable of catching short hitch routes or long fly routes. According to Rick Gosselin, McCluster was listed as one of the top 3 WRs on many teams' boards. He can do a hell of a lot more things than Dante Hall did. Dante was a great player once the ball was in his hands, but he was very below average at doing anything before that point. From an offensive standpoint, he was NOT a playmaker.

He was 55th on Gosselin's Top 100 list.

Not sure why you think using Gosselin helps your case.

And thinking we need a slot WR more than a pass rusher or ILB is why this team has 10 wins in the last 3 years.

Gosselin also gave the Chiefs an A+ and has raved about the McCluster pick. He mentions pretty clearly in his top 100 that it is not a mock draft. When a guy like Gosselin believes that a player went where he belonged, then you believe that McCluster was taken at the right value. Remember, this is a guy that was very critical of the Chiefs' 2009 draft.

Funny that we're moving the uprights. I thought a few weeks ago, we were talking about the Chiefs lacking playmakers, and that was the reason why this team doesn't win games. Isn't that the reason why this board demanded Berry over Okung? Or demanded Berry over McClain? Inside Linebacker is more important than Safety. But the Chiefs made the right move because Berry is a playmaker and McClain is not.

so let me get this straight...

oh **** it nevermind

Where was Koa Misi on that list, since you said if the Chiefs had McCluster ahead of Misi on their board, that is a major issue...

40...

no one is going to be thinking of McCluster as a reach in a few months

ANDY REID

Fact is, the Eagles valued the guy as a "top 40 pick" and that should hold much more weight than a draft website, even the best ones. Andy Reid has a NFL job and has flourished in the league.

You can believe the report, or not, but there is no reason he would say they were taking him if they truly weren't.

The fact that you guys made hundreds of posts leading up to the draft asking for playmakers and for the team to draft BPA and then backpedal after the draft and argue to no end that we should have "reached" for linemen and linebackers tells everyone all they need to know on if you do or dont have an agenda.

real talk

If we drafted Misi, Troup, Washington or Lee and the next pick was Philly taking DMC, you KNOW what the argument would be right now.

You guys would have your pitchforks ready and would be asking to no end why we didn't "reach" for playmakers because those aren't available later in the draft.

You know it

I know it

Everyone else knows it.



EVERYONE except you guys loved this draft, but please keep pushing that weak agenda and ignore the voices that are telling you to be objective.

He was really 40? I hadn't seen anything that had Misi that high I don't think from anyone. Of course, he had next to no college production, so I don't know why anyone would be that high on Koa Misi anyway.

:popcorn:

Exactly.

I heard Gosselin on Sirius NFL Radio with Peter King. He said he gave the Chiefs an A+ because they took everybody at perfect value. And this is a guy with probably the best sources in the biz. It doesn't matter what he rated his board at. If he says the Chiefs didn't reach, he has as good of sources as anybody to confirm that that's true.

And agreed... most of the people the Chiefs "should have" taken are not playmakers. They're guys who have the potential to play their position well enough, and most of them carry additional baggage. There are those who complain that the Chiefs took a part-time player, and yet push for Cody and Tate. Then there are those who insisted the Chiefs take a playmaker like Berry over positions of higher positional value like Okung and McClain, then suggest that in the second round we pick up solid players over playmakers. And then there are those who complain about Moeaki being too injury prone, and then push for Sergio Kindle to be picked almost two rounds higher despite having potentially chronic leg problems. What's most interesting is the way some people make completely different arguments to suit the situation.

With Cassel as QB it won't ****ing matter it will be the same old shit because he can't get it done.

You make some solid points in this post.

Cassel should improve significantly in this new offense, as it's more like the New England offense where you throw more short gains and try to get more YAC. And Weis is a tactician at that.

The problem is that you get the sinking feeling that Cassel will improve just enough that the Chiefs feel comfortable with him, even if he's not a franchise QB. When in fact the offense is probably covering up his weaknesses.

As long as Pioli is around it's essentially hopeless to think that he'll give up on Cassel because of his ego. I just have blind faith that Clark will step in and say "**** this shit, with your over hyped career backup, and draft a franchise QB". Very similar to want happened after the SD game in 2008, he was so disgusted he decided to clean house.

its called "talking out of both sides of your mouth"

Its like saying that we should have reached for Harvin/Maclin last year but being mad that we "reached" (even though in real life we took the player at the exact spot that was "this is your last chance at this player") this year for DMC.

But **** it, four years from now when these guys are almost all still here and playing major roles on the team, we can look back at those posts and chuckle a little.

Its all in good fun.

We'll have to see about that. I was pretty shocked we didn't take a QB and would have loved to have taken even a project like Lefevour. And frankly, I would have preferred trading up for Clausen instead of Arenas. But just like the Chiefs didn't add a Nose Tackle or Linebackers, that doesn't mean they don't think it's important. I doubt Pioli would build in a 3rd year out clause if he was deadset on Cassel as a long-term option and I haven't seen a lot of evidence in New England that suggests that the Pats will hold onto players who underperformed their contracts.

We'll see. I hope Weis adds a strong opinion. I hope Cassel improves and I hope, if he doesn't, the front office will find a plan B. But I do think this is a decision that could potentially set the franchise backward 2-3 years.

I can't speak for everyone else, but my argument has always been that McCluster will only be a part time playmaker.

If he gets in on more than 50% of the offensive snaps, then I will be fine with the selection.

But until I see it on the field, I see his selection as a luxury pick that a team with all the holes that the Chiefs have can't afford to make, and the fact that the Eagles were ready to select him right after us has no bearing.

Being as small as he is, it is also very possible that he has a rather short shelf life, and may not even be a contributor by the time this team has the rest of the pieces in place.

Again, a luxury pick for a team needing the necessities.

You get playmakers at the top of the draft.

You build the rest of the team after the first round.

If you can get a full time playmaker in the second, great, take him.

But don't eschew the core of the taem for a part time player.

A few problems with that take. One is, what do you consider a part-time playmaker? Because I keep hearing the word Cody or Troup or Cam Thomas, who'd probably be a 2-down nose tackle at most, and Golden Tate, who would likely serve in a similar slot capacity as McCluster. Jamaal Charles, if you limit him to 250 carries a game? Darren Sproles, Reggie Bush? Wes Welker?

Secondly, to points 1 and 2, aren't we overlooking the fact that on average about 5 players in the second round tend to be pro bowlers? The fact is, the majority of these players we supposedly whiffed on won't be full-time core players. Most of them will probably be part-time rotational players because the last thing you want is an average player at a core position. It's the second round. You're not going to get a full-time playmaker. And no matter how deep the draft is, the truth is, players in positions of high positional value (3-4 OLB, QB, WR) don't fall into the second round unless there is significant doubt that makes them drop on these boards. In the second round, you either grab great part-time players, grab core players who most likely will never amount to anything beyond a rotational starter, or you grab great players at low positional value (e.g. Safety, Guard, Right Tackle, etc....).

I think in the next 2-3 years, we have tons of opportunity to grab core foundational guys. Especially in free agency or if you hit on a late-day steal (who knows, maybe Sheffield surprises). You only have so many chances to hit on playmakers. And apart from Kindle and Clausen, I don't know who falls into that category.

Did you not read the post immeditaely preceeding this one.

I said 50% of snaps, a generous number for full time player.

I agree full on with the parts I bolded, but the second one could be said about any player, any time regardless of size of said player.

So, you would have been VERY pissed if we took Maclin or Harvin in the first last year then, right? That would have been a much much higher price to pay for an electric play maker than a second rounder for a player with similar abilities, but with even more versatility.

I would have been pisse with the selection of either Maclin or Harvin, though to be clear, we were screwed at the top of the draft last year, and I'm not sure there was any pick that I wasn't going to be pissed about.

I think within 2-3 years (once Jones is gone), I think he could be a 5-10 carry-per-game back, a slot receiver, and a kick returner. And he'll be in on most passing downs as either a receiver or a pass protector.

I could care less how many snaps he takes. If he's able to rack up 700-800+ all purpose yards with a high YAC, then to me, it doesn't matter how many snaps he takes. Being solid in pass protection and the return game, and forcing defensive coordinators to specifically scheme for him is icing on the cake.