Vindication for Carl?
 

Well written piece, IMO. He has a point.

http://kan.scout.com/2/791361.html

As everyone reading this already knows, the Kansas City Chiefs are currently mired in an eleven-game losing streak. The latest loss was particularly hard to swallow, coming at home against the hated Raiders. The same Oakland team, it should be noted, who came out in their season opener looking more like an NCAA Division II cupcake than a team capable of winning games in the NFL.

With those things in mind, you aren’t likely to find too many people looking for ways to compliment Kansas City Chiefs President and General Manager Carl Peterson these days. Brace yourselves, though, because in a roundabout way that’s exactly what I’m about to do.

You see, if the Chiefs’ recent decent into also-ran status has shown us anything, it’s that Peterson may be a lot smarter than anyone’s been giving him credit for.

What do I mean by that? For the answer, let’s jump back a few months. Shortly after the NFL Draft, WPI’s own Nick Athan conducted an interview with Chiefs’ owner Clark Hunt.

Here’s an excerpt from that piece:

Ultimately, Hunt knows that he’s serving the fans. Can they endure another losing season while this year’s draft class matures? Hunt thinks so.

"I do realize that in the short run, going with young players could have some shortcomings in terms of our performance on the field," he said. "But that’s OK. I think those guys will learn and our fans will enjoy watching those players develop."

"What I’ve come to learn is that the fans are actually really studied. They’re really smart. It must be because there’s 24-hour news on the National Football League. It’s Warpaint Illustrated and all the cable channels that cover the NFL and the constant media attention and the internet. Fans have become very smart in terms of how championship teams are built, and I sense they understand what we’re doing and will support it."

That certainly sounded good back in April. I imagine that a lot of the people who read those comments probably nodded in agreement and patted themselves on the back for being the smart, studied fans Clark said they were.

But now, just two games into the regular season, many of those same fans – no doubt spurred on by the pot-stirring of those like KC Star Columnist Jason Whitlock – are demanding that Hunt take action.

They want Peterson fired, they want Herm Edwards fired -- heck, they want both of them fired. Some even want Hunt to sell the team. They want whatever it takes in order to feel that change is on the horizon.

Unfortunately, it seems safe to say that after two more losses Hunt’s comments about the patience of the fanbase was a bit optimistic. Everyone knew the Chiefs would be a bad team this year. Sure, there were a few cockeyed optimists who were predicting K.C. to shock the world and finish 9-7, but most understood that considerable growing pains were to be expected. And, echoing Hunt’s remarks, most fans said all the right things about rebuilding during OTAs and training camp.

But as soon as the Chiefs began playing games again, something changed. It was even evident during the preseason. Perhaps some expected rebuilding to be a painless process that wouldn’t involve any sacrifice. Maybe they understood the Chiefs would lose some games, but figured every loss would be a moral victory in some way, and that rookies like Dorsey, Albert, and Flowers would all look like future Hall of Famers in the process.

Or maybe a lot of fans just never had the stomach for it to begin with.

“Not so”, they’ll undoubtedly say. “We were prepared for losing. But not like this. We weren’t prepared to lose because of the endless mistakes by Carl and the poor coaching from Herm. Get rid of ‘em!”

That sounds good and all – but I don’t buy it. Why not? Because this isn’t the first time I’ve heard that excuse.

Two years ago, the exact same cries were rising up from fans of the Green Bay Packers. The Pack went 4-12 in 2005, the team’s worst season in fourteen years. That offseason they brought in the unheralded Mike McCarthy as their new head coach and began rebuilding the team.

The Packers traded away one of their top players (Javon Walker) and ended up with twelve draft picks, several of whom saw significant action as rookies. With the league’s youngest roster, Green Bay began the next season 1-4, starting things off with an embarrassing 26-0 loss in their home opener against a hated rival.

Is this sounding familiar? It should. Don’t get me wrong, the Packers aren’t a perfect analogy to the Chiefs’ current situation – Green Bay, after all, already had a franchise QB in place with Brett Favre, and that alone makes a considerable difference.

But as you can see, there are enough similarities to make it an interesting comparison.

The Packers lost their first three home games that season, and their lone early victory came against the similarly winless Detroit Lions. Although they rebounded from their poor start and nearly got back to .500, they ultimately lost eight of their first twelve games and were sitting at 4-8 in early December.

When the team was slow out of the gate, outraged Packers fans wasted little time in demanding that McCarthy and G.M. Ted Thompson be fired. The same cries for change referenced in that column continued throughout the season as the Packers struggled, suffering lopsided defeats at the hands of the Eagles, Patriots, Bills, and Jets.

But the Packers pulled together in the final month and won four straight games to finish 8-8. A year later, still sticking to youth, Green Bay made their conference title game.

Will Kansas City finish 8-8 this season? Will they be a Super Bowl contender next year? Probably not.

As mentioned, the Chiefs don’t have a QB, and they also don’t have the benefit of playing in the weaker NFC. But the point of the comparison, as Packers’ fans learned, is that it’s foolish to judge so quickly.

Chiefs’ fans can say they’re not being impatient with losses, that it’s the coaching and management they’re upset with. It just rings hollow. Any Packers fan who signed a petition to fire McCarthy and Thompson during the 2006 season would probably admit today that they overreacted. They recognize that their young team started to improve as they got more experience and developed chemistry with one another.

No matter how the angry masses in Kansas City might want to justify their reactions, the simple truth is this: anyone who’s demanding sweeping changes in the Chiefs’ organization because a bad team played a bad game on Sunday wasn’t prepared for what was coming this season.

For that matter, anyone who wanted to see 35-year old Damon Huard trot back onto the field Sunday, rather than see 24-year old Tyler Thigpen get his opportunity, wasn’t prepared for what was coming this season. And most of all, anyone who’s not willing to wait more than two games before declaring the rebuilding effort a failure wasn’t prepared for what was coming this season.

So, no, I’m not buying that the reactions are all about Herm and Carl. And you know who else isn’t buying it? Carl Peterson.

After all, judging by the reactions we’re seeing, Peterson had everyone pegged a long time ago. He’s been criticized by millions, myself included, for the strategy he’s executed all these years. Stock up on free agents every few seasons, never bother to develop a young quarterback when you can always acquire a veteran with experience, and do everything else possible to shoot for a season of eight or nine wins. And if you can make the playoffs, hey, anything can happen once you’re in the tournament.

That’s been the Carl Peterson way, and the results speak for themselves. Sure, the Chiefs haven’t won a playoff game since Joe Montana was under center, but Arrowhead has still been filled to capacity year after year. Every December, no matter how mediocre the Chiefs were, the seats were always full and the stadium was always loud as long as there was some outside chance at a playoff berth.

Contrast that to this year, when even after a highly-praised draft and one of those “moral victories” against the New England juggernaut, the openly rebuilding Chiefs – finally trying to build a championship team the right way – struggled to sell out their home opener against their biggest rival.

While Hunt had reason for his view of how the fans would react to a rebuilding season, maybe Peterson’s view was a little more in line with reality. Perhaps he’s been more tuned-in to the fans than anyone ever thought he was. Maybe he knew that Chiefs fans just aren’t cut out for this rebuilding stuff.

I just hope he’s not the sort of guy to say “I told you so."

Time to pop some popcorn, this ought to be a doozy...

****** Carl/Herm, I'll reiterate this point, I understand KC is in a rebuilding phase but their has to be some progress to truly rebuild and it's not happening.

There's one.

Who wrote this - Carl Rove?

This ranks up there with the Favre trade will take the Chiefs to the playoffs and maybe more article he posted from that website he donates time to.

I would like to see some sort of an improvement.....trollying 3 QB's out there in the 1st quarter is not the way to go about it....

I just want to see some improvement on this team of players etc. The offense is handcuffed big time, and we don't have a great line by any means, but MIX it up with the playcalling. Give the QB pos. a chance to make plays, that is the only way to get better and evaluate talent. Defensively i think GUN is overrated as hell and should be gone IMO. Even if Edwards is not out of here at the end of the season, i think GUN should be. I don't care if we lose every game, but atleast find some bright spots in games, last sunday there were ZERO.

As much as I hate losing to the ****in Faiders, I see some logic in what is being said. We've seen the first two, just two, games of the season. Granted the QB situation is defintely not going to work until our starter gets back so we can, hopefully, evaluate him this year. It was said before the season started, "Don't get your hopes up, this very young team is going to look like champions one week, and a complete mess the next week until they begin to show some consistancy hopefully by the middle of the season." We have a long way ahead of us, so relax and see what develops. At least we know that by the end of the season we'll be looking better, or we'll get rid of Herm or Carl or both.;)

This was written by Michael Ash, BTW.

Also, using 1 of their "qb's" to run the option should never happen, esp since the guy is a practice squad WR, that was the most baffling thing about sunday....

I can and was prepared to take some lumps along the re-building way, but what just absolutely puts me over the top is this freaking Hagan at QB idea.


This is PRO FOOTBALL!!!!!!! That is totally unacceptable. In fact, paying to see THAT, was the low point of my 35 years as a fan!

Heh heh heh.....

Another thing the way Herm is running things it's like the team has become a goddamned spaid pussies who can't find a dick to suck on.

I've been saying this forever. Carl Peterson plays to the Chiefs fans, not to win in the NFL.

Once again, if the mandate from the Hunts had been to win a Super Bowl, Carl would have been fired more than a decade ago. If the mandate is to compete every year with a chance of the playoff and Super Bowl, then I'd say he's done a fine job.

It begins and ends with the Hunt family and anyone that's unwilling to admit that is lying to themselves.

Lamar got a pass because of his cancer issues, but Clark doesn't get a pass at all.

What about the 70's? The 80's?

It's the FAMILY.

Fire Clark Hunt! We demand it!!

ROFL

The chiefs are unquestionably the worst team in the NFL right now.

They do not just suck, they are one of those teams that is an embarrassment to the league. They are embarrassing the league with runaway suckage fission because the control rods of any semblance of competent coaching and management have been removed.

All we can hope for is that this pile of primordial slime somehow spontaneously evolves before the end of the season.

At least last season they would occasionally do something right and had all the right players standing in the right places.

I have said that to Chief fans for years, and they always give them a pass blaming Carl Peterson instead....who works for the Hunts! kind of like Raider fans blaming the coach.

This forum the last few days has changed my opinion on lots on this matter. Chiefs have really just been playing to the fan base. They seem they would rather just win enough so that they can have a fun time. Also I believe Lamar didnt want a repeat of the late 70's and 80's. So the average Chiefs teams were born.

It's Clark's baby now though. We will see what he does. He is smart business person that is for sure and he has done quite a bit on his own without his dad's help aka his financial service business. We will see if he can do the same with the Chiefs.

Two.

PWNED

What column?

That's the boat I'm in. I want to have fun watching the Chiefs. That's why I don't like Herm. He makes the game so F-ing boring to watch. Even if we're winning the way he does things (which we won't because those days are long gone) it will be like watching the Ravens super bowl run some years back. Snooze.

There is 2 problems with this analogy:

1. GB had a HOF player as their starting QB. We don't have that luxury
2. GB didn't lose 9 straight to end the season

My biggest complaint about this team is that the offense looks like the same run-run-pass-punt offense we have seen from Herm the last 3 seasons and that we don't have a legitimate QB on the roster. It is my belief if we had a legitimate QB we might be 2-0 instead of 0-2.

All you have to know about this organization is that when the Patriots lose the best player in the NFL, they trot out a guy who's never started and go 2-0. The Chiefs? They run the wishbone with some guy out of the stands...

I hear you.... I'd hate to see the Chiefs win a Superbowl as boringly as that Ravens Superbowl run... that would be a drag...

FIRE EVERYONE!!!!11!!11

THAT WAS TOO BORING.

49-41..... it's a Celebration of the game!

Anyone that thinks Herm is going to win a SB I really want the drugs you are taking

We had the 41, right?

Well then, KICK ASS!

We lost, but that sure was FUN!

No vindication. I expected us to be a young team that makes mistakes. Not this. We are clearly over matched out there. Not sure if it is talent, coaching, or scheme, but NOBODY can block long enough for plays to develop. That needs to be the first priority of this coach if we want to see improvement. Carl can't hang his hat on that excuse.

ROFL

Look at the responses at WPI. They're all freaking out. AT LEAST HUARD GIVES US A CHANCE TO WIN!!!!

Sounds just like here....

I don't mind sticking with 1 QB while Croyle is out, just get rid of the Options and Hagans BS...

Yeah huard gives us a better chance to win, but running the actual part of the playbook that will allow us to throw downfield and attempt to score would be nice for Thigpen/Martin

I....
can't.....
stop.....
laugh....
ing.....

LMAO

No SB appearences in 18 years. Nuff said....**** CARL!

Call me crazy, but I don't really think this article was about Carl. Using that angle was probably just easier than calling it "Chiefs fans are full of shit".

That GB stuff isn't remotely the same..they had a new coach and new GM rebuilding in their 1st year not a GM In his 20th year and a head coach in his 3rd year in his 2nd job as a known commodity of what he is.

**** carl!

Thanks for the insight. :rolleyes:

Are you going to tell us that the Royals suck, too?

Yep. I am curious if supposedly smart people like KC Fish and OTW think Herm can get us to the SB

No

Ive been saying these same things!!

Thompson wasnt in his first year. And it is very similar to GB. Carl is irrelevant because everyone knows that he is nothing but a lame duck and Herm is calling the shots. And this is Herms first year finally getting to play young guys and focus on rebuilding.

I didnt even remember how GB traded Walker and stocked up on draft picks that year. It is a very similar situation.

Zouk tossed out that GB example too, it isn't remotely the same.....it's the same if you take 0 time to look into it and basically just read the headline.

Um Thompson was very new as a GM his first draft pick was Rodgers so I believe it was his 1st or 2nd year.....

This is Edwards 7th year as a HC everyone knows what he is, same as Carl being here 20, it's extremely different.

I know you have been busting his balls but has made some good points about all of this.

Good I am glad to hear it. I think sticking by Herm past this year is a huge mistake unless the team shows dramatic improvement. We have 16 weeks to go.

I want you to tell me what team goes into rebuilding with a 20th year GM and a HC in his 3rd year with this team...

It was his 2nd year with the team. So when you said he was in his first year, it was wrong.

It isnt that different at all. It is different in the sense that McCarthy and Thompson are working together, whereas here Herm and Carl had a power struggle. Herm spent 2 years playing things Carls way. Now this year he is getting to rebuild.

And the way he is doing it is almost exactly like the way GB started off doing theirs. You cannot possibly argue this.

Yep. The biggest difference besides Dumb and Dumber as GM and HC is the fact they had a HOF ****ing QB that was still playing pretty well.

We have Brodie ****ing Croyle who is 0-9 as a starter

Not you as well today. That wasnt what I was getting at. In all honsety doesnt matter bc those two are gone anyways.

They better be....but I have this sinking feeling they'll both be back and there are some people fine with that.

Rebuilding is fine, rebuilding with the wrong people in place is not fine. When you are going to change the way your organization does things you don't stick with the GM in his 20th year or the HC who had been here 2 previous years...

Brodie Croyle went from the guy everyone thought was the guy to a piece of shit in a matter of about 3 hours....

You're putting that line in every post you make. Surely you're aware that Carl fought this whole rebuilding thing and now he's little more than a figurehead. You make it seem like he's leading the charge.

And I think that only you and I were saying he was injury prone and incapable of being a franchise QB from the beginning.

So in that case we don't have a GM? We just have an idiot head coach calling all the shots?

It'll spin back around when he gets back under center until he gets injured again.

You're really not aware of this situation?

I agree. Although if we do show improvement, I would likely consider keeping him around another year.

Improvements though..... big time....

I'm still hesitant that the next coach will **** up the rebuilding effort if we fire too soon...

I think some people are way to quick to believe that Carl has 0 power.

Vindication for Carl?

This is some funny ****ing shit.

The Chiefs are rebuilding and have been in need of a complete enema for more than a ****ing decade.

Yet, Kansas City's main psychiatrist, Carl Peterson, has a solution.

The Chiefs need to be just good enough to give the good people of Kansas City hope. Hope that they'll be in the NFL playoffs and once you're in the "tournament", great things can happen.

Well **** me with a goddamn crystal plunger!

Carl Peterson for President of the Universe!

All Chiefs fans need is HOPE!

vindication for carl? sorry, no. he gets no vindication. he apparently only gets to keep his job for life and screw us over repeatedly.

Clark Hunt said point blank after the season that the only reason he didn't fire Carl was because he wanted to give Herm a chance to do things his way. What meaningful influence do you think Carl still has after that?

Worthless article..


GB at least tried to put their young players in a position to improve.. The playcalling and substitutions are not giving the players a chance.. Total fluffer piece trying to gain positive attention from the Chiefs..

Say that is the case.......why in the world would a team give that much say to a coach like Herm Edwards? That isn't exactly a good thing to say about the team either.

Sorry, no. Michael Ash writes his opinion and nothing else.

No offense but his opinion isn't worth a hair on my cockbag

well, then, my opinion is that he sounds like a shill of the bob gretz skool of journalism.

I was willing to give him a chance but when he couldn't even make it through the first game I washed my hands of him

Where have you been for the past 9 months?

I think you're missing the point of the article. He's saying that maybe Carl knew best and Chiefs fans really can't stomach a true rebuild.

Ahhh, so Tiny stole it after all did he?

No ****ing shit?

I've been saying this for a decade and you know?

**** the fans.

They don't know shit.

Oh, a new an improved Guru! After only one day with Tiny?

Holy crap!

:evil:

Thats what I took away from it. He is full of shit too.

I totally agree. Heck I don't really care if they win or lose just as long as the effort is there and you can see improvement. These young guys are going to make mistakes and I could care less about that.

What I don't want to see is the head coach playing all safe and conservative and not letting the full potential of these young guys shine through. That means stop running 90% of the time up the middle on first and second down.

Same Guru. More attitude.;)

We won't see improvement with QB Killer Herm as the HC.

You're probably right and that is why if they don't win 1 game by the bye week I see no use for him to still be the head coach. That would make 15 straight losses.