Gunther planning to use 3-4 defense in likely passing downs
 

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/footb...de-scoop_x.htm

Chiefs defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham is the latest coach planning the 3-4 scheme as a sub package. Cunningham plans to implement the 3-4 in likely passing downs to maximize Kansas City's improved defensive speed.

I like the sound of this. Who do you think would normally be out there on defense in these situations?

Where'd they get that from? That's the first I've seen of that.

The USA Today has sources man. Sources!

Key Fox gonna fuk u up!!!

Yeeeeaaaah! Sources! I say let's make Ryan Sims a middle linebacker! Yeeeeaaaah! [/Howard Dean]

Sounds like he's really looking to get Bell involved in the defense and rushing the QB...

I've got an idea that's a million times better than running the 3-4. When the opposing team has a 3rd and 5 or more, we'll line up in a 4-3 and at the snap both of our defensive ends will drop 30 yards back into pass coverage. That's gotta work, right?

Falcon.

Should do a 4-4 Package.

If Siavii has developed enough since last year, we have the makings of a pretty dominant 3-4 group. I've always thought that we would implement some 3-4 once we signed Bell, we definately have the personnel to do it. This is good news to me!

You had your chance, Greg.

Heh, I was thinking 1-6 package. :)

Parker doesn't think so.......I don't either, something we do agree on.

Our DL is a big question mark....If Siavii/Sims/Dalton/Browning becomes animals, OK, I can see it. But keep inmind, we are lacking is quality DE's that are good containment and run stoppers, guys who can take on 2 blockers, same goes for the DT's.

I think we have the speed and players who can tackle in out LB's ( keeping a fingers crossed Mitchell can tackle )

I'm just not sold on the DE's and DT's for a 3-4.

NO doubt. Then we could get Scanlon, Grigsby, D.J., Mitchell, Fox, and Bell on the field at the same time.

How about 0-7, then we could get Fujita as well?

They might be able to get by with Hicks - Dalton - Browning as a base line for 5-10 snaps a game. Any pressure would have to be generated from one of the LB's blitzing.

I'd just send Scanlon out there and give the rest of the defense a day off...

DE Browning
DT Sims/ Junior
DE Allen/ Hicks

OLB Stills
ILB Bell
ILB Mitchell
OLB Johnson

:thumb:

Not sure how the DL will look like, but I'm guessing it'll look like this. :shrug:

DE Browning/Hall
DT Junior/Sims
DE Allen/Hicks

As for the LB's, this is probably the route that Gunther might go for.

OLB Fox
ILB Bell
ILB Mitchell
OLB Johnson

Pretty much the same goes for our base 4-3 also.

I like the idea of changing things up a bit, keep the O guessing.

I think if we go 3-4, we put Gary Stills in at OLB because of his speed and his ability to get to the QB.

I can really see Gun using him like he used to use DT. as a pass rush specialist only! :thumb:

:clap:

Here, I fixed it. ;)

Statistically the DL did pretty well #'s wise with sacks last year.

The 3-4 makes sense from a LB perspective, we could get Bell, Johnson, Mitchell, and Fox all on the field at the same time.

The problem is that we don't have the tackles to do it very often. Dalton and Siavii are 4-3 NT but not really 2-gap players, and we all know how bad Sims is...

We also don't have the DE's to pull it off.

I like this idea; if we have the personnel....I love the 3-4....this would be.....

From what I remember, ‘bout the only one get’n any pressure was Allen. It seems I remember Dalton get’n some solo tackles, but the rest were amazingly unspectacular. Course this is just from memory, and considering the season we had some of my memory was foggy later that day. :BLVD: ;)

I think we might be able to put Bell in at a DE to do a DT immitation on 3rd down passing situations--with Savii at DT? .... :hmmm:

The Front Seven would be:

Johnson - Mitchell -Fox/Fujita - Bell (in a three pt on the DL)

Browning/Hicks - Siavii - Allen


:)

Browning can play DE and would probably fit this scheme, the ? would be at the other end position I’d think.

Greatest HIts? WTF is The Sweet?

In a 3-4? Bad idea.
I like the idea of him play’n “Falcon” but he’s way to light for DE in that formation.

Sweet, dude....just "SWEET!" :p

"Falcon" is just a bastardized 3-4. :shrug:

That's crazy man. We have Hicks! Hicks I tell you. He could play both positions at the same time! Why, he's so good that he ought to be considered for the Hall of Fame as a player - it's a tragedy to wait until he's retired for 5 years. If you don't believe me about Hicks, just ask DV!



:)

I've often thought that Hicks was better suited for a 3-4.

Siavii is a 1-gap player. He's really not strong enough to play NT in a 3-4.

IIRC, the Falcon had 4 down linemen AND DT.

I know, but I'd give it a look....maybe Hicks at DE, with Browning in the middle would work better... :hmmm:

I don't recall, now that you say that.... :hmmm:

I thought it was from the 3-4 and DT roamed the line and rushed the QB from whereever he could get the best rush from.

Mr. Kotter,
As a full time DE, with his hand on the ground, I’d think that’d get Bell hurt in the 3-4 formation.

Word is that Syracuse is going to use something like that.

I always thought a 4-2-5 would be the best scheme against the pass.

Considering that pretty much describes the Nickel, you’d be 'bout
right. ;)

Wouldn't that be the Nickel??

Good call radar chief

grob

I'd probably try to get Hicks, Siavii, and Sims on the field together as starters, with Allen, Wilkerson, Browning, and Hall as backups.

At LB, I'd have DJ and Fox/Fujita on the outside, with Bell and Mitchell at ILB, and Boomer, Scanlon, Caver, and Fox/Fujita as backups.

I'm pretty sure we used 4 down linemen in addition to Derrick.

That would probably be best, but that line scares the shit out of me.

So we are definitely getting Fujita back before the season starts? If so that is crazy that our leading tackler from a year ago is going to be backing somebody up. If he is healthy why not start him where ya'll think Fox is going to start?

I know that everybody is high on Key Fox, but with most unproven 2nd year players, I'll believe it when i see it. (hopefully i'll see it)

Great. Gun watched a lot of tape from '01 - '03 and said to himself "jesus effin christ, that there spinner package looks grrrreat". Whee.

They switched back and forth so often it's hard to keep track. From 89-91, they played a straight 3-4 and he was always an OLB. After that, they played a 4-3 each year except '97, and he was either a DE or OLB depending on where they needed him most.

In '97, Gunther went to a 3-4 and DT played OLB, unless you heard Carl Peterson arguing to the franchise player committee that Dan Williams was a DT instead of a DE (in order to get the lower franchise dollar amount). If Williams was a DT as Carl claimed, then Derrick played DE. If Williams was a DE as he claimed, then Derrick played OLB. Personally, I thought Derrick played OLB that year.

Yeah, me too. But then again, those guys don't impress me as a 4-3 line either.

i like the idea but i see no "source" or no evidence of any kind that they have freakin' clue what they are talking about.

Ya I'm not real big on our line in either the 4-3 or the 3-4. But the thing is I could be. it seems as though the coaches trust these guys. If Allen doesn't get content with the season he had last year, Hicks and Sims step up to play to their ability, and Siavii plays good this year, then yes we are definitely alright, but i guess we will have to wait for the answers on these questions.

Yeah, it was mentioned earlier in the thread that it looks like they just pulled this out of their ass...

I guess I consider USA Today legit enough to assume they have a source. It is odd that no one else has heard this though.

They just said what a lot of people were thinking. No but seriously you would think USA today would have somebody that they got this from. I dont think thats something that they would just throw in there.

:clap: :clap: very well said Roy. Couldn't agree with you more. Yeah, I don't think we have the DL to run a 3-4 defense. Our DE's are not good run stoppers. I'm high on Jared Allen, but, his run defense is pourous, and he is a bit small. Definately, not the DE we want in a 3-4. Eric hicks we all know, and don't care to elaborate on him. Our DT's are simply not big enough, nor strong enough to play in a 3-4. With the exception of Siavii, each and everyone of our DT's are slighy over 300lbs or a little under 300lbs. It is not only the size, but, the fact that most of our DT's are not 2 gap players, and only 1 gap players.
I wish we signed Keith Traylor. A DT like that, is well suited for a 3-4. I think we have the LB's to run a 3-4. Maybe we should try a 4-4?

I thought I remembered Gun saying that just after the draft. That we would play SOME downs with 3-4... but not ALL passing downs or anything like that. Just that he had flexibility to do that.

Sorry I'm not going to bother trying to find it, but I really did think this was already known.

What, no more "spinner"? C'mon, the 2 down-lineman, everyone else run around like a complete frickin idiot play has been shelved?! Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Hicks is a damn good run stopper and Allen has bulked up and been working on run containment. Our LBers are better than our D-Line and we have two Nose tackles in Savaii and Dalton. We could run the 3-4, Maybe not as effective as the Pats, but our LBing speed could pull it off.

where did you get this information on Allen? Last pic I saw of him recently looks like he hasn't been hitting the gym/working out. Looks like he's been partying and drinking beer. Dude looks like he's developing a beer gut.

I saw him in person at the practice, plus it was reported that he had bulked up to 280 lbs on the radio.

I'm with you 100%. Except for that part about Hicks being a damn good run stopper. And Allen being someone you'd want as a 3-4 DE. And Siavii being a 3-4 NT. And Sims being a 3-4 NT. But other than that, absolutely right on.

Hater. ROFL That was good stuff. ROFL Just call me crazy next time.

I love this move. Bell would move back to his LILB spot and Kawika could play RILB. Then we could have DJ play ROLB and Fox at LOLB

Why, I couldn't do that. That would be mean.

Most nickle packages are a 3-3-5 while a dime is a 3-2-6. While blitz packages can be created from these combinations, I think a stronger rush would come from 4 downlineman and leave less gaps in coverage from a hole created by a blitz.

All kidding aside, we don't have the optimum horses up front on the D-line, but we actually have a very speedy set of LBers now. On passing downs, I believe we would be wise to utilize our speed and have 4 LBers on the field rather than our weakness of 4 D-lineman.

After thinking of your previous post, I tend to agree Hicks is NOT great run-stopper ( I exaggerate from time to time :p ), but he really does a pretty good job of containing the run, IMO. He also is good at putting pressure on the QB, he just rarely FINISHES the play with a sack.

Savaii has the size and strength to man the NT positiion, but is not the idle candidate, unless he really turns it up a few notches.

Sims is a possibility, but I prefer him as the undertackle.

Hall looks pretty good and Allen will improve from last year, IMO.

Our D-line could be a weakness, but it's worth installing some plays on obvious passing downs to utilize our LBers. Just my take.

I was led to believe that the dime is a 4-1-6 then a quarter would be a 3-1-7 but if you have a 3-2-6 that would almost be like a 3-4 with dbacks playing the outsidebackers pos. and i think the 4-2-5 is used more for the nickel but the 3-3-5 is another variation.I could be way off base so tell me if i am.

I don't think we have anything approaching a traditional 3-4 NT on the roster. And if we did (and we don't), I don't think Allen, Hall or Hicks would be the ends, they don't have the bulk; we'd need bigger 2-gap ends, probably more along the lines of Browning and Wilkerson. Either way, while we may have the personnel at LB, I don't see it on the line. Not for a base 3-4. But that's not really what we're talking about here, so my guess is if that if we're going 3-4 for nickel/long yardage (and I'm not convinced yet that we are, but for the sake of argument), it's probably not going to be a traditional 3-4 look, I'd imagine more of a pure pass rush package, with Browning on the nose, Allen and Hall on the ends, LBs set up for pressure. That's more feasible now than in the past because the speed at LB should make us less susceptible to draws and misdirection for long yardage.

I have more faith in our LBers rushing the passer than our front 4. I hope Gun finds a way to them involved rushing the passer on 3rd downs.

Sims, Siavii, Dalton would be my front-three in a 3-4 scheme. They need only hold the point of attack... those three have girth. If they get their shoulders low, they can definitely hold the line.

Why don't you consider Junior a Nose Tackle candidate? He's 6'4" 336 lbs. .

Most base nickel and dime coverages have 4 down linemen.

So Sims and Dalton would be the DE's?
:shrug:

Uhuuhuhuhuhuh uhuhuhuhuh uhuhuhuhuh...................you said "girth". Uhuhuhuhuhuhuh uhuhuhuhuhuhuh uhuhuhuhuhuhuh.

He's not a 2-gap DT.

The only guy on our roster that's ever been in a 2-gap defense is Dalton.