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-   -   Royals 2013 Kansas City Royals Repository Thread (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=267564)

siberian khatru 07-25-2013 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 9833065)
Two thoughts:

1) "Soft" trade market for starting pitching? Don't give me that b.s. (Which I'm sure Dayton Moore or someone in the Royals is shoveling to Dutton). It's the same as it is every year - the best pitchers get big interest.

Dutton can pooh-pooh the Garza return all he wants, but the Cubs still got a consensus top 30 prospect and one of the biggest helium/risers in CJ Edwards of the season (and a PTBNL, which is either Max Ramirez or ANOTHER pitcher in their system of similar value). That's a HAUL for 2 months of Garza.

2) David Lough vs. Alex Rios. You know, Alex Rios is not a superstar. And he's volatile/up-and-down. And he had a really terrible month of June. But as recently as last year he was an .850 OPS guy who hit .300 and slugged .500 (and that's what he has been outside of June this year).

I wouldn't say, outright, that I hate the idea of acquiring Alex Rios. If the price in prospects is low - or if the White Sox pick up part of that salary - it's worth exploring.

My thoughts exactly on Rios.

But if you're gonna throw that kind of money at 30-year-old OFers, how about signing Shin-Soo Choo in the offseason?

duncan_idaho 07-25-2013 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siberian khatru (Post 9833071)
My thoughts exactly on Rios.

But if you're gonna throw that kind of money at 30-year-old OFers, how about signing Shin-Soo Choo in the offseason?

Choo is a great player. Will take more yearly salary and a bigger commitment in terms of years than Rios, but he is a superior player.

Rios at $12.5 million next year is not out-of-control. If things go well, you can get .300/.500 SLG/25 HR from him. I like David Lough, but even if he hits .300, you're looking at a guy who is going to slug around .425.

If they're getting Rios for a song, it's worth the monetary risk, to me. And I'm not sure there is an option KC can obtain that has more 2014 upside than Rios. Could be the position player equivalent of Santana.

Of course, now that I've said that, the Royals will trade for Rios and also trade Santana for a young RF stud who is close to MLB. Rios will suck for a 1/2 while the prospect kills it in Omaha, and the prospect won't get promoted until the Royals are dangerously far behind in the playoff hunt.

DeezNutz 07-25-2013 07:44 AM

I highly doubt the Sox would eat salary. If they would, my perspective changes. However, Rios is a career OPS+ of 102 and hit over 20 HRs in a season only three times in his career. The odds of him significantly underperforming his contract would be very, very high, especially given his age.

Prison Bitch 07-25-2013 07:55 AM

Every year we talk about what we can get for our 1-year rentals. It's embarrassing, frankly.

duncan_idaho 07-25-2013 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 9833105)
I highly doubt the Sox would eat salary. If they would, my perspective changes. However, Rios is a career OPS+ of 102 and hit over 20 HRs in a season only three times in his career. The odds of him significantly underperforming his contract would be very, very high, especially given his age.

What if the trade price is something a slight tick up from Brandon Sisk?

Say, Jason Adam and Fred Ford.

Then, the money is the only issue. You're on the hook for $12.5 million in 2014.

Unless Glass is willing to up the payroll, that probably takes away the possibility of signing anything but a mid-tier starting pitcher in free agency (probably puts a cap of about $6-8 million on what they can spend in FA on pitching).

DeezNutz 07-25-2013 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 9833131)
What if the trade price is something a slight tick up from Brandon Sisk?

Say, Jason Adam and Fred Ford.

Then, the money is the only issue. You're on the hook for $12.5 million in 2014.

Unless Glass is willing to up the payroll, that probably takes away the possibility of signing anything but a mid-tier starting pitcher in free agency (probably puts a cap of about $6-8 million on what they can spend in FA on pitching).

Yeah, I just don't know if you're going to get enough production from Rios to justify essentially being inactive in FA because of salary concerns. Personally, I highly doubt it.

This would be a classic DM disaster move, IMO.

Fansy the Famous Bard 07-25-2013 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 9833150)
Yeah, I just don't know if you're going to get enough production from Rios to justify essentially being inactive in FA because of salary concerns. Personally, I highly doubt it.

This would be a classic DM disaster move, IMO.

Which is exactly why it is going to happen... and we'll probably end up trading a guy like Ventura or Mondesi for him.

We are ****ed as Royals fans... Seriously, we have a bumbling ****ing moron as GM.

duncan_idaho 07-25-2013 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke (Post 9833169)
Which is exactly why it is going to happen... and we'll probably end up trading a guy like Ventura or Mondesi for him.

We are ****ed as Royals fans... Seriously, we have a bumbling ****ing moron as GM.

But he's got a sweet flattop!

And he's super-loyal!

And he really loves Jesus!

What else could you need in a Midwestern GM?

duncan_idaho 07-25-2013 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 9833150)
Yeah, I just don't know if you're going to get enough production from Rios to justify essentially being inactive in FA because of salary concerns. Personally, I highly doubt it.

This would be a classic DM disaster move, IMO.

I'm not sure how much help they can find in FA, though.

Best OF available:

Carlos Beltran (would be cool if he comes back, but he's ancient and probably wants to play for a team that is a lock to contend, rather than a hope)

Jacoby Ellsbury (not gonna happen... too much $$$$ for KC)

Choo (I'd love it, but would KC really go 5/$18 million for a FA OF? And is Choo worth that commitment to KC?)

Nelson Cruz (Maybe you get a discount for the 50 games he'll miss next season?)

Mike Morse (Really can't play RF, but if they're shopping in FA for an OF, he's my favorite option that I think they actually COULD sign)

Jason Kubel (Not a bad mid-tier option, but also not really a RF)

After that, you get to guys like David Murphy, Franklin Gutierrez, David DeJesus, Marlon Steroids, I mean Byrd, etc.

FA SP:
Ervin Santana (too up-and-down for a long-term deal in KC)

Matt Garza (not coming)

Josh Johnson (How's that shoulder, Joshie?)

Ubaldo Jimenez (Yuck)

There's just not much you'd want to commit to long-term on the FA market.

I don't think they're going to find a star RF/2B or SP in FA this offseason. The market is thin, and the only options out there will be expensive and fraught with significant risk.

WhawhaWhat 07-25-2013 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 9833186)
Marlon Steroids, I mean Byrd.

If they can have a year like Melky Cabrera and Jeff Francoeur had in 2011, I'll take anyone on steroids.

DeezNutz 07-25-2013 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 9833186)
I'm not sure how much help they can find in FA, though.

Best OF available:

Carlos Beltran (would be cool if he comes back, but he's ancient and probably wants to play for a team that is a lock to contend, rather than a hope)

Jacoby Ellsbury (not gonna happen... too much $$$$ for KC)

Choo (I'd love it, but would KC really go 5/$18 million for a FA OF? And is Choo worth that commitment to KC?)

Nelson Cruz (Maybe you get a discount for the 50 games he'll miss next season?)

Mike Morse (Really can't play RF, but if they're shopping in FA for an OF, he's my favorite option that I think they actually COULD sign)

Jason Kubel (Not a bad mid-tier option, but also not really a RF)

After that, you get to guys like David Murphy, Franklin Gutierrez, David DeJesus, Marlon Steroids, I mean Byrd, etc.

FA SP:
Ervin Santana (too up-and-down for a long-term deal in KC)

Matt Garza (not coming)

Josh Johnson (How's that shoulder, Joshie?)

Ubaldo Jimenez (Yuck)

There's just not much you'd want to commit to long-term on the FA market.

I don't think they're going to find a star RF/2B or SP in FA this offseason. The market is thin, and the only options out there will be expensive and fraught with significant risk.

Minor league outfield depth? Anyone with a fast riser in the system who is blocked?

WhawhaWhat 07-25-2013 08:58 AM

Mike Moustakas is hitting .271 since June 1. However only 3 HRs and 7 RBIs in that time.

Fansy the Famous Bard 07-25-2013 09:02 AM

I'm not against making Cain the full time RFer for a couple years... Wait on guys like Eibner, Fletcher to see if they pan out... There are also options like hunter pence or colby rasmus that will be coming into FA... but with Lough and Cain, RF isn't really THAT big of a need when you have that gaping freaking hole at 2B still staring at us... And still need moar pitching.

duncan_idaho 07-25-2013 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat (Post 9833199)
If they can have a year like Melky Cabrera and Jeff Francoeur had in 2011, I'll take anyone on steroids.

He's having that year right now, I think.

Roiding up for the contract year. Then cycling down once he's got a big, guaranteed deal.

WhawhaWhat 07-25-2013 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke (Post 9833212)
I'm not against making Cain the full time RFer for a couple years... Wait on guys like Eibner, Fletcher to see if they pan out... There are also options like hunter pence or colby rasmus that will be coming into FA... but with Lough and Cain, RF isn't really THAT big of a need when you have that gaping freaking hole at 2B still staring at us... And still need moar pitching.

David Lough is not an everyday RF. If they can find a power bat in RF, they should do whatever they can to get that person in a Royals jersey because they need both.

WhawhaWhat 07-25-2013 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 9833214)
He's having that year right now, I think.

Roiding up for the contract year. Then cycling down once he's got a big, guaranteed deal.

1-year deal then. :thumb:

Prison Bitch 07-25-2013 09:07 AM

The best 1M we could spend this offseason is buying out Dayton's last year.

duncan_idaho 07-25-2013 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 9833204)
Minor league outfield depth? Anyone with a fast riser in the system who is blocked?

The Dodgers (Joe Pederson) make some sense, as does Nick Castellanos of the Tigers. The Marlins also have an OF logjam and might be willing to move Justin Ruggiano. The only other team with position player logjam (the Rangers) probably just took care of a big piece of it.

The Royals Brett Eibner also bears watching... since June 1, he is:

.268/.333/.541

with 11 HR, 6 3B and 8 2B

It's the first time he has really succeeded as a hitter. It's possible the light has gone on for a guy with huge upside and RH power. It's also possible it's just a hot streak that doesn't mean anything.

mr. tegu 07-25-2013 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat (Post 9833215)
David Lough is not an everyday RF. If they can find a power bat in RF, they should do whatever they can to get that person in a Royals jersey because they need both.

The only reason people say that is because the other position players are not producing enough power so they think we need to upgrade over a player who is producing because he plays a position that often holds power hitters. If that is not the case for you, what makes you think he isn't an everyday RF?

DeezNutz 07-25-2013 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 9833226)
The Dodgers (Joe Pederson) make some sense, as does Nick Castellanos of the Tigers. The Marlins also have an OF logjam and might be willing to move Justin Ruggiano. The only other team with position player logjam (the Rangers) probably just took care of a big piece of it.

The Royals Brett Eibner also bears watching... since June 1, he is:

.268/.333/.541

with 11 HR, 6 3B and 8 2B

It's the first time he has really succeeded as a hitter. It's possible the light has gone on for a guy with huge upside and RH power. It's also possible it's just a hot streak that doesn't mean anything.

Nice. Thanks. I would imagine that the latter would necessitate Holland, which would be a bit tough in the division.

WhawhaWhat 07-25-2013 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. tegu (Post 9833227)
The only reason people say that is because the other position players are not producing enough power so they think we need to upgrade over a player who is producing because he plays a position that often holds power hitters. If that is not the case for you, what makes you think he isn't an everyday RF?

The team is loaded with guys that are small and hit singles. They don't need any more of them. If they are going to look for someone to add in the OF, then David Lough is going to be the guy that goes every time. They aren't getting a lot of power from adding a guy at 2B and I don't think Gordon, Moose or Hosmer are going anywhere anytime soon.

Great Expectations 07-25-2013 09:32 AM

Kyle Zimmer is pitching tonight in Springfield.

Fansy the Famous Bard 07-25-2013 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat (Post 9833215)
David Lough is not an everyday RF. If they can find a power bat in RF, they should do whatever they can to get that person in a Royals jersey because they need both.

The options out there that we would have to trade for are not much of an upgrade, but would cost in trade... hence why i would rather stand pat for a year or two.

DeezNutz 07-25-2013 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke (Post 9833269)
The options out there that we would have to trade for are not much of an upgrade, but would cost in trade... hence why i would rather stand pat for a year or two.

But our self-constructed window closes after next season, thanks to Dayton ****ing Moore.

FML.

Fansy the Famous Bard 07-25-2013 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 9833226)
The Dodgers (Joe Pederson) make some sense, as does Nick Castellanos of the Tigers. The Marlins also have an OF logjam and might be willing to move Justin Ruggiano. The only other team with position player logjam (the Rangers) probably just took care of a big piece of it.

The Royals Brett Eibner also bears watching... since June 1, he is:

.268/.333/.541

with 11 HR, 6 3B and 8 2B

It's the first time he has really succeeded as a hitter. It's possible the light has gone on for a guy with huge upside and RH power. It's also possible it's just a hot streak that doesn't mean anything.

At this point is Eibner going to be a ML Thirdbaseman or is he gonna be making a position switch before he gets here?

mr. tegu 07-25-2013 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat (Post 9833248)
The team is loaded with guys that are small and hit singles. They don't need any more of them. If they are going to look for someone to add in the OF, then David Lough is going to be the guy that goes every time. They aren't getting a lot of power from adding a guy at 2B and I don't think Gordon, Moose or Hosmer are going anywhere anytime soon.

The team is loaded with guys who are supposed to hit for power. Faulting Lough for their lack of production is silly, given he has been pretty consistent. But that is besides the point and is really just an opinion on how to build the team.

You said Lough isn't an everyday RF. What are you basing that off of? If you mean simply because THIS team needs more power, then fine, but that is really what I said initially, to which I would disagree that Lough is not an everyday RF. He obviously isn't proven yet, but he has earned a chance to prove it.

Fansy the Famous Bard 07-25-2013 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 9833274)
But our self-constructed window closes after next season, thanks to Dayton ****ing Moore.

FML.

I am speculating on what I think should be done for the betterment of the franchise (I'm here for life), not what I think GMDipshit will do. :banghead:

ChiTown 07-25-2013 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 9833226)
The Dodgers (Joe Pederson) make some sense, as does Nick Castellanos of the Tigers. The Marlins also have an OF logjam and might be willing to move Justin Ruggiano. The only other team with position player logjam (the Rangers) probably just took care of a big piece of it.

The Royals Brett Eibner also bears watching... since June 1, he is:

.268/.333/.541

with 11 HR, 6 3B and 8 2B

It's the first time he has really succeeded as a hitter. It's possible the light has gone on for a guy with huge upside and RH power. It's also possible it's just a hot streak that doesn't mean anything.

I was surprised how slow a start Eibner had in the Minors system, given he was coming from college. At 24, his light needs to keep coming on if he wants to have a legit shot at the MLB level.

ChiTown 07-25-2013 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke (Post 9833275)
At this point is Eibner going to be a ML Thirdbaseman or is he gonna be making a position switch before he gets here?

RF'r

WhawhaWhat 07-25-2013 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. tegu (Post 9833279)
The team is loaded with guys who are supposed to hit for power. Faulting Lough for their lack of production is silly, given he has been pretty consistent. But that is besides the point and is really just an opinion on how to build the team.

You said Lough isn't an everyday RF. What are you basing that off of? If you mean simply because THIS team needs more power, then fine, but that is really what I said initially, to which I would disagree that Lough is not an everyday RF. He obviously isn't proven yet, but he has earned a chance to prove it.

If they bring in another OF, who gets replaced?

What team brings in David Lough to replace one of their outfielders?

Great Expectations 07-25-2013 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiTown (Post 9833284)
I was surprised how slow a start Eibner had in the Minors system, given he was coming from college. At 24, his light needs to keep coming on if he wants to have a legit shot at the MLB level.

He can hit for power, but I thought they should see if he can still pitch not too long ago. Hope this hot streak sticks.

duncan_idaho 07-25-2013 10:28 AM

Eibner's bat has been slow to progress because he was a two-way player at Arkansas. A lot of times, those guys take more time to develop. He is starting to hit, and it was at pretty much the last minute. He had few chances left.

RH power like his is rare, especially when packaged with a guy who plays a GREAT CF/RF.

siberian khatru 07-25-2013 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 9833350)
Eibner's bat has been slow to progress because he was a two-way player at Arkansas. A lot of times, those guys take more time to develop. He is starting to hit, and it was at pretty much the last minute. He had few chances left.

RH power like his is rare, especially when packaged with a guy who plays a GREAT CF/RF.


He's also been hurt off and on, hasn't he?

mr. tegu 07-25-2013 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat (Post 9833293)
If they bring in another OF, who gets replaced?

What team brings in David Lough to replace one of their outfielders?

Lough is doing better than Cain. But before we worry about throwing money or prospects at the outfield, we have much bigger concerns in 2B and most likely starting pitching.

I am not going to look through every team's roster, but you can't try to tell me with a straight face that there are teams out there that couldn't use Lough right away and replace either their LF or RF. He is batting nearly .300, plays good defense, has speed, and has a WAR of 2.1 or 1.2 (depending on the sourece) on the season.

ChiefsCountry 07-25-2013 10:55 AM

Money for Rios could be easily be what we paid for Frenchy and Chen/Hocheaver. So its a wash salary wise.
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BigCatDaddy 07-25-2013 12:21 PM

Per 810 George steps down as batting coach.

AndChiefs 07-25-2013 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy (Post 9833532)
Per 810 George steps down as batting coach.

Uhoh.

Mr_Tomahawk 07-25-2013 12:28 PM

TJ Carpenter‏@TJCarpenterWHB5m
George Brett stepping down as hitting coach. Will return to front office. Press availability at 4. #Royals

WhawhaWhat 07-25-2013 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy (Post 9833532)
Per 810 George steps down as batting coach.

What a quitter! :D

mr. tegu 07-25-2013 12:32 PM

So this means Hos will suck again and Gordon will go back to being good.

Cephalic Trauma 07-25-2013 12:33 PM

What's rudy jaramillo doing?

KCUnited 07-25-2013 12:38 PM

No point staying on if you're not in the race. George knows that.

Cephalic Trauma 07-25-2013 12:41 PM

Interesting...

Royals before Brett: .261/.314/.375
Royals with Brett: .248/.309/.369

DeezNutz 07-25-2013 12:46 PM

The team is still hitting like shit, but Hosmer has started beasting. Ultimately, the latter is by far the biggest element.

KevB 07-25-2013 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke (Post 9833275)
At this point is Eibner going to be a ML Thirdbaseman or is he gonna be making a position switch before he gets here?

Eibner is an OF, and that's what he's been since he was drafted. Until this most recent hot streak, I'd been waiting to hear about a switch to P. He was a legit prospect as a pitcher also coming out of Arkansas.

KevB 07-25-2013 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 9833586)
The team is still hitting like shit, but Hosmer has started beasting. Ultimately, the latter is by far the biggest element.

Coming into the season, I believe we all hoped between Hos and Moose that one would become a star and the other would be a productive major league player. We're certainly closer to that goal than we were a month ago.

DeezNutz 07-25-2013 12:55 PM

Agreed. The swing that Hosmer put on that last HR was just out****ingstanding.

Mama Hip Rockets 07-25-2013 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat (Post 9833215)
David Lough is not an everyday RF. If they can find a power bat in RF, they should do whatever they can to get that person in a Royals jersey because they need both.

What about Elliott Johnson? He played right field last night.

mr. tegu 07-25-2013 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 9833606)
Agreed. The swing that Hosmer put on that last HR was just out****ingstanding.

The best thing about the HRs he hits now is that they are no doubters. I can't remember the last player we had that when he got a hold of it, no matter where in the park it was going, you knew it was going to be well gone.

WhawhaWhat 07-25-2013 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurman merman (Post 9833603)
What about Elliott Johnson? He played right field last night.

Hard to believe they only scored 4.

BigCatDaddy 07-25-2013 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. tegu (Post 9833646)
The best thing about the HRs he hits now is that they are no doubters. I can't remember the last player we had that when he got a hold of it, no matter where in the park it was going, you knew it was going to be well gone.

This and it's nice to see them actually going to RF. I don't know if he pulled one ball hard the first 2 months of the season.

WhawhaWhat 07-25-2013 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy (Post 9833682)
This and it's nice to see them actually going to RF. I don't know if he pulled one ball hard the first 2 months of the season.

Seitzer is probably pulling his hair out.

KevB 07-25-2013 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurman merman (Post 9833603)
What about Elliott Johnson? He played right field last night.

Just stop, you're not funny. :cuss:

:thumb:

Prison Bitch 07-25-2013 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cephalic Trauma (Post 9833575)
Interesting...

Royals before Brett: .261/.314/.375
Royals with Brett: .248/.309/.369

Can't make chicken salad outta chick sht.

Demonpenz 07-25-2013 02:53 PM

The sound the ball Hosmer hit tells you everything you know about his talent.

Mama Hip Rockets 07-25-2013 03:55 PM

Tigers lost today. Verlander gave up 7 runs to the White Sox, after giving up 7 runs to the Royals in his last start. I think he sucks now.

Deberg_1990 07-25-2013 03:59 PM

Of course, the Royals wouldn't have had to worry about finding a RF if they hadn't of traded "you know who".

Shields has been great no doubt, but how many extra wins has he brought us? 7 or 8? Dayton was just desperate to save his ass, and overestimated how close this team was to competing.

Time to go bye bye Dayton...

Prison Bitch 07-25-2013 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 9834049)
Of course, the Royals wouldn't have had to worry about finding a RF if they hadn't of traded "you know who".

Shields has been great no doubt, but how many extra wins has he brought us? 7 or 8? ...


2.7 wins so far. Myers has brought Tampa 0.9.

WhawhaWhat 07-25-2013 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 9834049)
Of course, the Royals wouldn't have had to worry about finding a RF if they hadn't of traded "you know who".

Shields has been great no doubt, but how many extra wins has he brought us? 7 or 8? Dayton was just desperate to save his ass, and overestimated how close this team was to competing.

Time to go bye bye Dayton...

What is the difference in wins with Bruce Chen or Luke Hochevar in the rotation vs James Shields?

Deberg_1990 07-25-2013 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat (Post 9834058)
What is the difference in wins with Bruce Chen or Luke Hochevar in the rotation vs James Shields?

I have no idea, but this brings up another point. The reason the Royals had to make the trade for Shields was because Dayton has never been able to develop any starting pitchers. So he creates a hole, then has to make all these moves to fill that hole, but then he opens up a new hole. It's an endless cycle with this turd.

Mama Hip Rockets 07-25-2013 04:33 PM

Any ESPN Insiders here? Buster Olney posted a blog called "Why Royals and Mariners Can't Sell" that looks interesting.

Deberg_1990 07-25-2013 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurman merman (Post 9834127)
Any ESPN Insiders here? Buster Olney posted a blog called "Why Royals and Mariners Can't Sell" that looks interesting.

Because they are not truly bad enough to just tell the fans "we are throwing in the towel" They are stuck in no mans land.

SAUTO 07-25-2013 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 9833105)
I highly doubt the Sox would eat salary. If they would, my perspective changes. However, Rios is a career OPS+ of 102 and hit over 20 HRs in a season only three times in his career. The odds of him significantly underperforming his contract would be very, very high, especially given his age.

Especially for a guy who obviously didn't play as hard when they are out of it...
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SAUTO 07-25-2013 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 9833606)
Agreed. The swing that Hosmer put on that last HR was just out****ingstanding.

For sure. He has some violence in him.
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O.city 07-25-2013 04:57 PM

The great white-flag debate
July, 25, 2013
JUL 25
7:41
AM ET
By Buster Olney | ESPN.com
RECOMMEND3TWEET17COMMENTS1EMAILPRINT
Ervin Santana
Jim Rogash/Getty Images
Should the Royals sell Ervin Santana and store more assets, or hope he'll keep them in contention?
Before the trade deadline in 1996, then-Orioles general manager Pat Gillick assessed his team and decided to blow it up. He arranged trades of Bobby Bonilla and David Wells, believing that Baltimore’s organization needed an injection of prospects for its depleted farm system.

When you looked at that through the prism of the standings, it made complete sense: On July 28, 1996, the Orioles were 12 games out of first place.

But Baltimore owner Peter Angelos had a completely different perspective -- as someone who was focused on selling tickets, selling hope. And he thought it was a bad idea to raise the white flag on the season with more than two months to play because of what that said to paying customers.

That the Orioles surged back and advanced all the way to the American League Championship Series didn’t necessarily mean that Angelos was right and Gillick was wrong, because there have been plenty of examples of owners stepping in and killing deals for the same reason only to see their team fall out of the race.

But that example should underscore the reality that Major League Baseball teams aren’t run like Strat-O-Matic teams: They are businesses. Sure, the chances of the Kansas City Royals and the Philadelphia Phillies, who are both eight games out of first place, look really bad, and the same goes for the Seattle Mariners, 11 games out in the AL West.

The chief officers of those franchises must assess what surrendering in July would signal to the fan bases, because once the Royals trade Ervin Santana, or the Mariners trade Raul Ibanez and Kendrys Morales, that means they’re telling their fans that they’re willing to give up any chance of a comeback, and they'll see the evidence in the attendance.

The St. Louis Cardinals came back from the dead in 2011, after Atlanta disintegrated, and went on to win the World Series, and the Rays made the playoffs that same year after the Red Sox collapsed. The Rockies had a historic, miraculous finish in 2007 and wound up facing the Red Sox in the World Series.

Teams that sell off in July are telling their customer base: We don’t have any chance.

That’s a hard thing to sell for the Royals, who haven’t been in a postseason since 1985, or the Mariners, who have been almost irrelevant for the past decade and seem to be building something in the past month. Keep that in mind over the next six days, as you scratch your head about some decisions that confuse you.

Notables

• Ervin Santana is too much of a commodity to not trade now, writes Sam Mellinger.

• Selling players such as Hunter Pence could be a bad decision for the Giants, writes Henry Schulman.

• Tim Hudson’s awful injury was heartbreaking, because he’s one of the game’s great pros, a great teammate, universally respected, in the way that Mariano Rivera is.

And the reaction of Eric Young Jr. was just as heartbreaking. This was a tough break for Hudson, writes John Harper.

The injury robs them of a team leader, writes Jeff Schultz.

From ESPN Stats & Information: The Braves have had amazing health and consistency among their starting pitchers this season until recently. Paul Maholm went on the DL this week and Hudson suffered an ankle injury at first base Wednesday night. They’ve used only six starters all year, tied with the Tigers and Athletics for fewest in MLB. Check out Braves starters this season, with total starts at right:

Tim Hudson: 21 (Injured Wednesday)
Paul Maholm: 20 (Placed on 15-day DL Tuesday)
Kris Medlen: 20
Mike Minor: 20
Julio Teheran: 19
Alex Wood: 1 (Will start Thursday for Maholm)

• Dustin Pedroia’s contract was announced, a great deal both him and the Red Sox. It would seem possible that someday in the future, Pedroia will be offered the captainship of the Red Sox, the big “C” on his jersey.

And here’s hoping that he turns it down.

Because being named captain really has very little upside and possibly a lot of downside.

Pedroia is certainly worthy of being named captain because of the way he leads, and by the time his career is over, Pedroia will be most one of the most prolific players in Red Sox history. But he knows as well as anyone that the formal designation of captain is unnecessary, because the players always know who the leaders are, and from year to year, that can change, depending on injury and performance.

If the guy with the “C” on his jersey starts to slide in performance -- which inevitably will happen with Pedroia, as it does with all players -- the designation adds another layer of discomfort. Pedroia is as blunt as any player in the game and this is part of the reason why players and staff love him: He is demanding and accountable and not about frills and lacing. He just plays. I suspect that when he gets older and his performance goes into serious decline, probably many years from now, he’ll want an honest assessment on that, and the stupid “C” on the jersey could get in the way of that.

In hockey, the captaincy is a significant and important honor. In baseball, it’s more of a marketing thing.

Pedroia needs it as much as he needs a sign on his back that says, LOOK AT ME, I PLAY HARD.


• You can’t stop the Dodgers, you can only hope to contain them. Meanwhile, Arizona is plummeting.

• David Price dominated the Red Sox, writes Roger Mooney. From ESPN Stats & Information, how Price won:

A. Efficient: Only one plate appearance versus Price lasted beyond five pitches (David Ortiz, 6), only the second time he has done that this season. In July, opponents are averaging 3.0 pitches per plate appearance versus Price. For reference, the lowest P/PA in a calendar month since 2000 is 2.96 (Gil Heredia, 2001).
B. Price threw 41 of his 59 fastballs in the strike zone (70 percent), his second highest percentage in 134 career starts. Fifteen of the 17 outs he recorded with the pitch were in the zone.
C. Price started 23 of 31 hitters (74 percent) with a first-pitch strike and didn't stop there. He went to only one 2-0 count and one three-ball count the entire game. Among the 151 pitchers to make at least 10 starts this season, nobody goes to a 2-0 count less than Price (6.8 percent of PA).

• Matt Garza was great in his first start for the Rangers, writes Jeff Wilson. From ESPN Stats & Information:

A. All 22 outs Garza recorded came on his fastball (17) and his slider (5), only the third time this season he has done that.
B. Four of the five outs Garza recorded on his slider were strikeouts, tying his second most this season.
C. Garza is throwing his slider 43 percent of the time with two strikes in his past seven starts after throwing it 31 percent of the time with two strikes in his first five starts.

Trade chatter

1. The White Sox aren’t sure yet what they want to do with Jake Peavy. They could keep him into the offseason and either market him in the winter or keep him around in the last year of his deal, at $14.5 million. Or they could take what they can get for him now, and according to other teams, the asking price is really high, at the moment. Peavy takes the mound against the Tigers this afternoon, against Justin Verlander.

Peavy will make at least one more start for the White Sox. From Mark Gonzales’ story:

"I'm abreast of what's going on," Peavy said. "(General manager) Rick Hahn does an incredible job of staying in contact with us, just being professional, just letting us know kind of how things stand.

"If something does happen, I'm not going to be caught off-guard. We do understand that's a possibility. Despite the reality of the situation, we hope it doesn't happen. But we're prepared for it if it does."

The Red Sox and Diamondbacks are expected to have two scouts apiece at Peavy's start.

2. The Diamondbacks continue to look for a good left-handed reliever, a scarce commodity in the current market -- and they’re just one of many teams searching for that very piece.

3. Alfonso Soriano asked the Cubs for two or three days to make a decision.

4. David DeJesus is back, but on the trade market.

5. The Phillies could be nearing a contract extension with Chase Utley, writes Jim Salisbury. Agree with everything he writes.

6. Dejan Kovacevic has advice for the Pirates.

7. The price for bullpen help for the Red Sox appears to be really high, writes Scott Lauber.

8. Stuart Sternberg says the Rays are unlikely to be active at the trade deadline.

9. Bud Norris may have made his last start for the Astros.

10. The Rangers are looking for an impact bat on the market. From Drew Davison’s piece:

They have identified three potential fits, baseball sources said, in White Sox outfielder Alex Rios, Giants right fielder Hunter Pence and Mariners designated hitter Kendrys Morales, a switch-hitter.

“Certainly we’d like to add another bat,” manager Ron Washington said. “We are left-handed heavy, so we certainly want to add a right-handed bat. What bat that will be? I think [general manager Jon Daniels and company] are hunkered down up there trying to figure that out now.” Rios, who is batting .278 with 12 home runs and 48 RBIs, appears to make the most sense, and is the only one playing for a clear seller. The White Sox, after all, trail by 16 games in the American League Central.

Rios, 32, is also signed through next season for $12.5 million with a club option for 2015 at $13.5 million, which means he could replace Cruz or David Murphy -- both free agents after the season -- in 2014. Additionally, Rios would fill-in for Cruz this season should MLB suspend Cruz for his ties to the Biogenesis of America clinic that reportedly supplied players with banned substances.

11. The Cardinals appear unlikely to make a big trade, writes Bernie Miklasz.

Pete Kozma’s production is among the worst for shortstops in the majors and, sure, somebody like Asdrubal Cabrera would represent an upgrade. But you know what? St. Louis is a near-lock to make the postseason at this point, given the Cardinals’ 10.5 game lead over the club with the sixth-best record in the National League. “They’re going to be in The Dance,” said a rival GM, referring to the playoffs. “They don’t have to do anything.”

The Cardinals have by far the best run differential in the majors, at +140, and after going 9-for-20 with runners in scoring position in their victory Wednesday, they’re hitting .340 in those situations. That’s 51 points higher than any other team.

The fact that they have only 17 homers in more than 1,000 plate appearances in those situations -- one of the lowest rates in the majors -- is just one more clue about how sound and consistent their collective approach is.

To say that they’re just lucky with runners in scoring position would be like saying they’re merely fortunate in finding talent after the first rounds of the draft. Which they continue to do: Now an undrafted signee is rocketing through the Cardinals’ system, as Jenifer Langosch writes.

Biogenesis

• The Alex Rodriguez stuff is ridiculous and the source of frustration not only for the Yankees, but also for those in the union. If A-Rod believes he’s healthy, he has full access to the grievance process prescribed under the terms of the labor agreement, and if that grievance led to an independent determination that the Yankees kept him on the disabled list despite being healthy, he would be entitled to relief and he would be forced onto the roster.

But as of Wednesday evening, there was no indication Rodriguez had used that option. Rather, he bizarrely chose to give an OK to a doctor he has never met to go on a local New York radio station and declare him healthy.

Rodriguez has become like Charles Foster Kane in "Citizen Kane" as he nears the end of his baseball life: In his castle, surrounded by riches, without allies, isolated.

• Privately, some teammates want A-Rod to go down, writes Mark Feinsand.

• A-Rod should either file a grievance or shut up, writes Mike Lupica.

• Ryne Sandberg wants tougher drug penalties.

• Kirk Gibson called on Ryan Braun to come out of his bunker and talk to the media.

• Mark Attanasio says he’s saddened but not angry about Ryan Braun. No single player defines the Brewers, says COO Rick Schlesinger.

• Bartolo Colon has no reason to cut a deal, writes Tim Kawakami.

Dings and dents

1. Miguel Cabrera missed another game.

2. Ryan Hanigan has an aggravated wrist.

3. Ross Detwiler had a setback.

4. Travis d’Arnaud was back on the field.

5. Derek Jeter might have to wait.

6. A top prospect had elbow surgery.

7. Brandon Morrow’s injury is a concern.

8. Matt Kemp went on the DL again.

9. Kyle Blanks is unlikely to come off the disabled list right away.

Moves, deals and decisions

• Jair Jurrjens signed with the Tigers.

Wednesday’s games

1. An umpire’s decision contributed to the Twins’ loss.

2. Eric Hosmer was "the man" for the Royals.

3. Scott Kazmir ended a winning streak.

4. The Nationals are awful right now: Their losing streak is at six, all at home.

5. The Phillies flopped.

6. Oakland finished off a sweep, writes Susan Slusser.

AL East

• Francisco Rodriguez hopes to take pressure off the Orioles bullpen.

• The Jays need to leave Brett Lawrie at third base, writes Richard Griffin.

AL West

• Jered Weaver was great, again.

• Joe Saunders was hit around.

NL East

• Jenrry Mejia was called up.

• Justin Ruggiano is slumping badly.

From Elias Sports Bureau: Stephen Strasburg became the second pitcher in modern MLB history to lose with at least 12 strikeouts while allowing two or fewer hits and zero walks. The only other pitcher to do it was James Shields while with the Rays, versus the Orioles last season.

NL Central

• Francisco Liriano was outstanding again.

• Jason Grilli’s replacement throws really hard.

NL West

• Buster Posey got some rest.

• The Rockies are not in a panic.

Other stuff

• The Mariners announced that Eric Wedge suffered a very mild stroke.

• The city of St. Petersburg is negotiating a stadium exploration deal with the Rays.

• Mark Berry is back, as he fights cancer.

And today will be better than yesterday.

alnorth 07-25-2013 06:19 PM

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/07/25...as-royals.html

Brett has resigned as hitting coach. He says he'll still work with the players a little bit in the cages before home games, but the travel is too much. Pedro Grifal is now the hitting coach.

alnorth 07-25-2013 06:24 PM

Every July, the baseball media identifies a team for their white flag debate. I guess the Royals are that team in 2013.

KC has been so bad for so long, I hardly remember the last time it was even a question at this point in the season, so maybe that is progress.

Deberg_1990 07-25-2013 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth (Post 9834406)
http://www.kansascity.com/2013/07/25...as-royals.html

Brett has resigned as hitting coach. He says he'll still work with the players a little bit in the cages before home games, but the travel is too much. Pedro Grifal is now the hitting coach.

I fixed Hos Dayton, I'm out!

Coach 07-25-2013 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth (Post 9834419)
Every July, the baseball media identifies a team for their white flag debate. I guess the Royals are that team in 2013.

KC has been so bad for so long, I hardly remember the last time it was even a question at this point in the season, so maybe that is progress.

Honestly, I wouldn't throw in the towel. I'm aware it's 8 games, but there is still 2 months of baseball left, and anything can happen.

WhawhaWhat 07-25-2013 07:34 PM

NW Arkansas Naturals ‏@nwanaturals
Kyle Zimmer with 9 Ks through 4 innings has retired 7 in a row, thrown only 54 pitches (43 strikes) and not had a ball hit out of infield

siberian khatru 07-25-2013 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat (Post 9834592)
NW Arkansas Naturals ‏@nwanaturals
Kyle Zimmer with 9 Ks through 4 innings has retired 7 in a row, thrown only 54 pitches (43 strikes) and not had a ball hit out of infield

11 K, 1 BB, 0 R through 5 on 77 pitches for Zimmer

WhawhaWhat 07-25-2013 08:06 PM

NW Arkansas Naturals ‏@nwanaturals
Zimmer strands two more getting his 12th strikeout to end the 6th...Naturals up 2-0

DeezNutz 07-25-2013 08:17 PM

Kind of have to wonder if he's a candidate to jump AAA, especially as a college arm.

58kcfan89 07-25-2013 08:33 PM

Random thought I had today, hope someone with more knowledge than me can answer:

Isn't Dayton's contract supposed to run out after the 2014 season? So is baseball like football in the sense that most managers/GMs don't hit their "lame duck year" without getting either extended or fired? If so, should we expect any action on Dayton after this season or does Glasshole care enough to do anything?

Just trying to find a way that we can get out of this no man's land we're currently in. Not good enough to contend, not bad enough to blow it up...

alnorth 07-25-2013 09:08 PM

... and KC wins while Detroit loses. The Royals are now 7 games back, far enough so their chances are not great, but not so far in July to where you should give up. The purgatory continues...

CaliforniaChief 07-25-2013 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth (Post 9834837)
... and KC wins while Detroit loses. The Royals are now 7 games back, far enough so their chances are not great, but not so far in July to where you should give up. The purgatory continues...

We'll see where we are after these next 6 games. I would think that if we aren't within 5 after the Twins series, it would be a disappointment.

tk13 07-25-2013 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth (Post 9834837)
... and KC wins while Detroit loses. The Royals are now 7 games back, far enough so their chances are not great, but not so far in July to where you should give up. The purgatory continues...

It's a brutal position. The odds really aren't in their favor, but I'd guess a large portion of the ticket-buying fan base will think same old cheap Glass if they sell sitting near .500 at the beginning of August, and still having a ton of games against the teams ahead of us.

alnorth 07-25-2013 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13 (Post 9834880)
It's a brutal position. The odds really aren't in their favor, but I'd guess a large portion of the ticket-buying fan base will think same old cheap Glass if they sell sitting near .500 at the beginning of August, and still having a ton of games against the teams ahead of us.

yep, it truly is a brutal position. You don't even have to dig up miracle Disney stories, we are JUST CLOSE enough to where you can find several examples just in the last decade where the fans would go "But but but, the 20XX (teamnames) came back from that much!"

The Royals probably should give up, but they can't. We have done JUST BARELY ENOUGH so that giving up right now would be a disaster. Even as a logical baseball fan who would probably be fine with it, even I can feel it. I honestly, truly do not want to trade Santana. I just do not want to do it, even though I know we should...

KevB 07-25-2013 10:27 PM

Rany Jazayerli ‏@jazayerli 37s
Tell me more. MT @Steven_Davis3 Pretty sure I just witnessed the best stuff/pitching in my 9 years of minor league baseball. #Zimmer

Sure-Oz 07-25-2013 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevB (Post 9835087)
Rany Jazayerli ‏@jazayerli 37s
Tell me more. MT @Steven_Davis3 Pretty sure I just witnessed the best stuff/pitching in my 9 years of minor league baseball. #Zimmer

Dude is coming on now...Keith Law seems to love him


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